EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[AlterEgo]

Amazing how many people on this website quote The Daily Mail when they have a political axe to grind. Yet how many of these have ever read it for a period of time?

It sounds just like the old adage...."I don't like Guinness, but I've never tried it"..

Have you ever eaten a turd, Paul? If not, how would you know if it tastes bad?

 

[me123]

Amazing how many people on this website quote The Daily Mail when they have a political axe to grind. Yet how many of these have ever read it for a period of time?

It sounds just like the old adage...."I don't like Guinness, but I've never tried it"..

I have tried reading the Daily Mail, and not just the clickbait. That's exactly how I formed my opinion on it. It is truly terrible.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Have you ever eaten a turd, Paul? If not, how would you know if it tastes bad?

Allowing for your comparison above, which is in extremely poor taste to ask a fellow forum member, which I am sure that Diageo who now own the Guinness brand titles would take severe umbrage to when used as a comparative, you must realise that as Homo Sapiens evolved, certain matters that you quote above are one of those in which most people would view to be abhorrent in all respects.

The medical term for such as you describe for the eating of faeces is coprohagia and has been observed in cases of some types of mental illness. But I hope that you are not attempting to draw such a comparison in my case.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I have tried reading the Daily Mail, and not just the clickbait. That's exactly how I formed my opinion on it. It is truly terrible.

One might say exactly the same about the Socialist Worker.

 

[meridian2]

Would you believe that both my good lady wife and I, both in our 70s, actually voted "Remain". The point being the matter you and I are diametrically opposed upon is in our political ideals, from how I saw how you ended your original posting to which I made response to.

I would certainly believe it. The vote was broadly between those with little or nothing to lose who had been disenfranchised by successive governments over many years (Brexit) vs people invested in the status quo who were doing rather nicely out of the EU and all who sail in it (Remain).

Telling someone in Boston or Stoke on Trent they'd never had it so good, which was the nub of the Remain argument, was never going to end well. I could definitely lose out but I don't believe my life and future income streams should dictate the issue of sovereignty or mask the philosophical ideals of the EU commission.

 

[bavvo]

Amazing how many people on this website quote The Daily Mail when they have a political axe to grind. Yet how many of these have ever read it for a period of time?

It sounds just like the old adage...."I don't like Guinness, but I've never tried it"..

I have. I read it for years growing up, and still see it occasionally all courtesy of my Mum who has it every day. From the age of 11 I could see it for what it was, a right wing propaganda sheet and gossip rag with few redeeming features. Mind you, it has become very slightly more socially liberal over the years, perhaps reflecting the changes in society (or perhaps to add a wider range of pictures to the sidebar of shame).
Still for all its faults, the Mail is vastly better than the vile and nasty Daily Express, which seems to be sinking deeper and deeper into the neo fascist swamp.

 

[Moonshot]

I would certainly believe it. The vote was broadly between those with little or nothing to lose who had been disenfranchised by successive governments over many years (Brexit) vs people invested in the status quo who were doing rather nicely out of the EU and all who sail in it (Remain).

Telling someone in Boston or Stoke on Trent they'd never had it so good, which was the nub of the Remain argument, was never going to end well. I could definitely lose out but I don't believe my life and future income streams should dictate the issue of sovereignty or mask the philosophical ideals of the EU commission.

What do you think will be the outcome or prospects for those currently unemployed come March 29th 2019?

Whilst I dont disagree with the sentiment of sovereignty, you have to wonder what the picture in the UK will look like for the average citizen. Its worrying to say the least.

 

[meridian2]

What do you think will be the outcome or prospects for those currently unemployed come March 29th 2019?

Whilst I dont disagree with the sentiment of sovereignty, you have to wonder what the picture in the UK will look like for the average citizen. Its worrying to say the least.

I don't know who the average citizen is. There are people picking up millions in bonuses and companies who pay pennies in taxation, and those involved in back breaking work for minimum wage.

I think the EU want to spread as much fear as possible, and be as draconian as they can, to deter other EU countries following the UK. In the end sense will prevail over ideology because workers in the EU will face redundancy if they can't sell in Britain, and European countries won't want industrial and civil unrest which will further foment popularism. In ten years Brexit will be seen as a storm in a teacup, not the end of the world.

 

[Moonshot]

I don't know who the average citizen is. There are people picking up millions in bonuses and companies who pay pennies in taxation, and those involved in back breaking work for minimum wage.

I think the EU want to spread as much fear as possible, and be as draconian as they can, to deter other EU countries following the UK. In the end sense will prevail over ideology because workers in the EU will face redundancy if they can't sell in Britain, and European countries won't want industrial and civil unrest which will further foment popularism. In ten years Brexit will be seen as a storm in a teacup, not the end of the world.

Do you think its wrong for people to pick up millions in bonuses ? Also , those who are involved in back breaking work for minimum wage.....if they want to better themselves, do you think they should take responsibility for that themselves?

 

[YorkshireBear]

All newspapers lie and no one holds any of them to account. That is not limited to the daily mail despite how much I despise it.

 

[meridian2]

Do you think its wrong for people to pick up millions in bonuses ? Also , those who are involved in back breaking work for minimum wage.....if they want to better themselves, do you think they should take responsibility for that themselves?

What a vacuous argument. How can an Old Etonian, ex-Oxbridge, City of London merchant banker be said to have "bettered" himself over someone with a vestigial education and little employment opportunity packing frozen food on a night shift?

 

[Moonshot]

What a vacuous argument. How can an Old Etonian, ex-Oxbridge, City of London merchant banker be said to have "bettered" himself over someone with a vestigial education and little employment opportunity packing frozen food on a night shift?

That doesnt really answer the question I posed.

 

[meridian2]

That doesnt really answer the question I posed.

Perhaps you'd like to change the assumptions on which it is based? Who are these ordinary people for a start?

 

[WelshBluebird]

Telling someone in Boston or Stoke on Trent they'd never had it so good, which was the nub of the Remain argument, was never going to end well.

The problem is, while what you say is true, that argument was never going to work, it doesn't make it any less true. Or at least specifically the idea that these people could only see things improve because of Brexit is insane. Especially in areas that get a large amount of EU funding but are often ignored by Westminster (Cornwall, South Wales, some bits of North England) then there is a very real possibility that those who voted Brexit because of various issues will actually see their lives get worse because of it.

 

[Kite159]

Amazing how many people on this website quote The Daily Mail when they have a political axe to grind. Yet how many of these have ever read it for a period of time?

It sounds just like the old adage...."I don't like Guinness, but I've never tried it"..

I only quoted The Daily Mail as it is the 2nd biggest newspaper in this country for circulation figures, and I do flick through a copy every now and again when I want a laugh.

 

[Moonshot]

Perhaps you'd like to change the assumptions on which it is based? Who are these ordinary people for a start?

Think you need to re read my original post......so to ask just one of those questions again.....do you think its wrong for people to pick up millions in bonuses?

 

[Moonshot]

The problem is, while what you say is true, that argument was never going to work, it doesn't make it any less true. Or at least specifically the idea that these people could only see things improve because of Brexit is insane. Especially in areas that get a large amount of EU funding but are often ignored by Westminster (Cornwall, South Wales, some bits of North England) then there is a very real possibility that those who voted Brexit because of various issues will actually see their lives get worse because of it.

Isnt that ironic. And indeed it is a very real possibility imo.

 

[meridian2]

The problem is, while what you say is true, that argument was never going to work, it doesn't make it any less true. Or at least specifically the idea that these people could only see things improve because of Brexit is insane. Especially in areas that get a large amount of EU funding but are often ignored by Westminster (Cornwall, South Wales, some bits of North England) then there is a very real possibility that those who voted Brexit because of various issues will actually see their lives get worse because of it.

You're not getting their position. These people are not enfranchised, they lack the financial means, the education and the investment in whatever jobs they endure to give one about the outcome either way. Governments haven't cared about them for decades and if they had, they made an appalling job of doing anything about the problem. That people doing okay in their nice houses and cars are shocked at the apparent nihilism of such individuals is to misunderstand their plight. Some people doing nicely thank you have looked at the debate and found fellow travellers of the Brexit disenfranchised based on ideological concerns. There isn't a single motivation for Brexit or it wouldn't have reached a critical mass to swing the vote.

 

[D365]

It sounds just like the old adage...."I don't like Guinness, but I've never tried it"..

If you know you don't like it, why do you need to try it again?

 

[WelshBluebird]

You're not getting their position. These people are not enfranchised, they lack the financial means, the education and the investment in whatever jobs they endure to give one about the outcome either way. Governments haven't cared about them for decades and if they had, they made an appalling job of doing anything about the problem. That people doing okay in their nice houses and cars are shocked at the apparent nihilism of such individuals is to misunderstand their plight. Some people doing nicely thank you have looked at the debate and found fellow travellers of the Brexit disenfranchised based on ideological concerns. There isn't a single motivation for Brexit or it wouldn't have reached a critical mass to swing the vote.

I suggest you stop putting words into peoples mouths and thoughts into their minds if you cannot understand what is trying to be said.

I do understand their position because I came from it. Born and bred in one of these areas that the government has ignored for decades (but the EU hasn't ignored). I am not shocked they voted to leave at all. I expected it.

However what I am saying is that even though some of these people think they have nothing to lose, even though some think that by voting to leave they are giving the middle finger to those "people doing okay in their nice houses and cars", leaving the EU has a very real possibility of harming those at the bottom who voted for Brexit more than it will hurt anyone else

And of course I don't think Brexit won because one reason. But I think you can't ignore any of the many reasons either (because the difference in the result was so small, you take out one reason and it is easily likely remain would have won).

 

[Dave1987]

The problem is, while what you say is true, that argument was never going to work, it doesn't make it any less true. Or at least specifically the idea that these people could only see things improve because of Brexit is insane. Especially in areas that get a large amount of EU funding but are often ignored by Westminster (Cornwall, South Wales, some bits of North England) then there is a very real possibility that those who voted Brexit because of various issues will actually see their lives get worse because of it.

I think there is a huge amount of irony from areas that voted for Brexit now pleading that the money they received from the EU is protected. Areas that voted for Brexit have a lot of jobs that will likely be under threat if the UK reverts back to WTO rules. And you are totally correct that people who voted for leave could well see their lives get worse as a result. Lots of people did not know what they were voting for and the consequences of doing so. With the weakness of the pound we could well see lots more hostile takeovers of British businesses.

 

[meridian2]

I suggest you stop putting words into peoples mouths and thoughts into their minds if you cannot understand what is trying to be said.

I do understand their position because I came from it. Born and bred in one of these areas that the government has ignored for decades (but the EU hasn't ignored). I am not shocked they voted to leave at all. I expected it.

However what I am saying is that even though some of these people think they have nothing to lose, even though some think that by voting to leave they are giving the middle finger to those "people doing okay in their nice houses and cars", leaving the EU has a very real possibility of harming those at the bottom who voted for Brexit more than it will hurt anyone else.

It has the potential to hurt middle incomers more than the minimum wagers. I don't accept Brexit will do either, though there will obviously be those who benefit and suffer from withdrawal from the European Union. I think the EU is a smoke and mirrors operation designed to give the illusion of progress and inclusion while supporting the have's and doing little for the have-nots. Whether the have-nots will benefit by leaving the EU is unproven either way, and issuing Jeremiads or fanfares is premature either way. For me the sovereignty point is worth any penalties accrued, which are over-exaggerated anyway. The UK was already a grossly divided society, Brexit merely gave it a voice that hadn't hitherto been heard through mainstream channels.

 

[Moonshot]

It has the potential to hurt middle incomers more than the minimum wagers. I don't accept Brexit will do either, though there will obviously be those who benefit and suffer from withdrawal from the European Union. I think the EU is a smoke and mirrors operation designed to give the illusion of progress and inclusion while supporting the have's and doing little for the have-nots. Whether the have-nots will benefit by leaving the EU is unproven either way, and issuing Jeremiads or fanfares is premature either way. For me the sovereignty point is worth any penalties accrued, which are over-exaggerated anyway. The UK was already a grossly divided society, Brexit merely gave it a voice that hadn't hitherto been heard through mainstream channels.

I ll ask again .....do you think its wrong for people to pick up millions in bonuses?

 

[meridian2]

I ll ask again .....do you think its wrong for people to pick up millions in bonuses?

If they bring billions in genuine wealth to the country as a whole, of course not. If they line the pockets of their mates and a few upmarket estate agents, wine bars and Maserati dealers, then yes, the disparity is obscene.

 

[Moonshot]

If they bring billions in genuine wealth to the country as a whole, of course not. If they line the pockets of their mates and a few upmarket estate agents, wine bars and Maserati dealers, then yes, the disparity is obscene.

Do you think its an aspiration for everyone in this country to improve their own wealth ?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Interestingly Farage has just been on Radio 2 arguing that Theresa May should unilaterally guarantee the rights of EU citizens currently living in the UK

Remind me again, what nationality is Mrs Farage?

 

[meridian2]

Do you think its an aspiration for everyone in this country to improve their own wealth ?

No. If you can't put a roof over your head or feed and educate your family the need for increased financial income is a pressing one. If your problems stretch no further than whether to buy a Picasso or a Rubens I don't accept the aspiration to further improve your personal wealth is a God given duty. Once you have accrued a certain amount of money it becomes easier to maintain that level and pure survival disappears in the rear view mirrors. That's why pay day loans and food banks are rare in the streets of Mayfair.

 

[Domh245]

Remind me again, what nationality is Mrs Farage?

I thought that they'd separated?

 

[Moonshot]

No. If you can't put a roof over your head or feed and educate your family the need for increased financial income is a pressing one. If your problems stretch no further than whether to buy a Picasso or a Rubens I don't accept the aspiration to further improve your personal wealth is a God given duty. Once you have accrued a certain amount of money it becomes easier to maintain that level and pure survival disappears in the rear view mirrors. That's why pay day loans and food banks are rare in the streets of Mayfair.

Would you agree then that packing frozen food on a night shift ( as you quoted earlier ) would actually meet the minimum requirements of putting a roof over your head?

 

[Railops]

What a waste of time the last 9 months have been.