New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

[DelW]

The improvements diagram shows 4tph between London and Portsmouth via the Direct. Given that in the early Stagecoach days that was attempted in various ways and none succeeded, have there been any infrastructure changes that might allow it to work now?

Please no return of the Guildford - Haslemere shuttle!

 

[Juniper Driver]

To get a homogeneous fleet, which will reduce maintenance costs and traction training.

A great idea obviously...We have 7 tractions.

 

[infobleep]

I see they are going to pay the living wage. Do South West Trains do this currently?

I also see every mainland train will have loos. That surely means the rolling stock without loos will be trnaaferrred to another franchise. That is great news for passengers. Who wants to be on a train for 50 minutes between Guildford and Clapham Junction without a loo. All those who need to get to Clapham Junction or change their in the morning peak and might need the loo on route, would want to travel on such a service if it could be avoided.

I see a new smart card. What's wrong with the existing ones, other than branding? Will the existing ones stop working suddenly I wonder.

http://www.firstgroupplc.com/~/medi...lc/content-images/south-western-railway-2.jpg

 

[Mordac]

Scrapping no, but replacement on SWT making them available for the new Welsh franchise may have been a positive move.

Exactly, I wasn't suggesting scrapping them, they seem in pretty good nick actually. Just that replacing them here, on a premium paying franchise which presumably could afford a new replacement more easily than elsewhere, could help with the DMU shortage. This approach seems to have been taken in Greater Anglia, so I wonder what changed here (other than the Secretary of State ).

That said, unlike Neil Williams, I wouldn't particularly want the replacement to be b-mode.

 

[HH]

158s and 159s especially the SWT variants are good trains! Certainly not the most pressing need to replacement around the country.

Their acceleration characteristics are better than Class 444/450. And they will be getting a refresh.

 

[HH]

Given the 455s have literally just been retractioned I cant see them being ditched just yet...

You may need to check your specs then...

 

[Domh245]

Tony Miles on WNXX is saying that the 442s will be retractioned and that there will be no DOO.

 

[superalbs]

Their acceleration characteristics are better than Class 444/450. And they will be getting a refresh.

They're getting a refresh?

That SWT C6 livery they went into didn't last long then did it. :/

Tony Miles on WNXX is saying that the 442s will be retractioned and that there will be no DOO.

That's good news, if only it means there won't be endless strikes.

 

[Kite159]

So no usual quote from Mike Cashro about "once more a foreign operator is allowed to rip the travelling public off and take lots of money/profit abroad, whereas a fully nationalised railway would allow these basket case franchises to reinvest their profits into providing a decent cup of coffee for the hard worked staff"

---

HH, where it is true the 158/159s accelerate better than the EMUs, they are let down by only being 90mph vice 100mph for the 444/450s. It will be interesting to see what the refresh is like, I guess a mix of USB & plug sockets will be fitted (similar style to the Scotrail 158s)?

 

[Mikey C]

Surprised the 455s are all to be replaced before Crossrail 2 plans are confirmed, as surely that would impact on the number of trains needed to operate out of Waterloo?

 

[Bletchleyite]

That said, unlike Neil Williams, I wouldn't particularly want the replacement to be b-mode.

Given that they mostly run over third rail, whyever not?

 

[infobleep]

Great news that Guildford will get a later service. As every train will have loos, less important to be whether it's slow or fast. I hope it fast though.

No longer will I have to run to catch the 23.45, if I don't want to. I can get a slow train instead. Assuming the loos are fitted by the time I'm travelling that is.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Tony Miles on WNXX is saying that the 442s will be retractioned and that there will be no DOO.

Does that make them Grandma's old broom? New bodies (well, newish) and new traction equipment but they're still the same train

 

[TheDavibob]

So no usual quote from Mike Cashro about "once more a foreign operator is allowed to rip the travelling public off and take lots of money/profit abroad, whereas a fully nationalised railway would allow these basket case franchises to reinvest their profits into providing a decent cup of coffee for the hard worked staff"

The Guardian quotes him:

“Once again the government has refused to consider the public sector option for a major rail franchise and instead it’s a foreign state operator, in this case the Chinese state, which is set to make a killing at the British taxpayers’ expense,” he said.

“That is nothing short of a scandal and reinforces the demand for nationalisation of our rail assets for the benefit of the British passenger and taxpayer. The nonsense is that, with the government triggering article 50 this week, they would be free to ignore EU rail directives that slam a block on public ownership.”

“It is, frankly, ludicrous that the Tories are continuing with the ‘any state but the British state’ policy which has plundered our railways for over two decades.”

And you were entirely correct in your predictions.

 

[HH]

90 trains consisting of 750 vehicles formed as 5 and 10 car trains could give 60 10-car and 30 5-car - that would replace the 455s/456s and 707s more or less like for like, it wouldn't quite cover the 458s.

Current numbers: 455 - 364; 456 - 48; 458 - 180; 707 - 80 = total of 672 vehicles; 70 more Class 707s are ordered. With the Class 442s, a total of 840 vehicles are incoming.

By my maths that means 98 extra vehicles over what was already due.

 

[jon0844]

Love how the BBC (and likely others) have gone with Hong Kong company in their headline.

Yes they do explain that MTR is working with (or 'helping') First, but for those who don't read clearly it's easy to misread.

Now it doesn't matter to most people, but for some it will matter a lot because it's yet another foreign company...

 

[HH]

Tony Miles on WNXX is saying that the 442s will be retractioned and that there will be no DOO.

The first is correct at least. The second, well, I don't expect to see removal of guards from any services, but I would be surprised if there wasn't some change in operation on some services.

 

[Oliver]

So no usual quote from Mike Cashro about "once more a foreign operator is allowed to rip the travelling public off and take lots of money/profit abroad, whereas a fully nationalised railway would allow these basket case franchises to reinvest their profits into providing a decent cup of coffee for the hard worked staff"

Worth mentioning that the ownership is First 70%, MTR 30%. Perhaps Mike C regards Scotland as 'foreign'. Incidentally MTR is headed up by Jeremy Long who ran Anglia in the good old GB Railways days.

 

[pompeyfan]

Any news on if Rail Gourmet will be brought back in house?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The first is correct at least. The second, well, I don't expect to see removal of guards from any services, but I would be surprised if there wasn't some change in operation on some services.

Driver release, guard close?

 

[Mordac]

Given that they mostly run over third rail, whyever not?

Because the more bi-modes there are around, the more excuses DfT has to stop electrification schemes. Even if I recognize that further 3rd rail electrification is extremely unlikely, they'd probably be capable of being converted to AC operation just like most other 3rd rail EMUs ordered recently. Therefore the problem would still apply, as they'd be available in the future.

Also, in addition to a political consideration, which I admit to be my main concern,two operational ones: bi-modes are more expensive, and that might tip the business case; and there may not be enough capacity on the juice rail for the added drain caused by the current DMU operated services switching to electric,

 

[Oliver]

It is a bit of a shame. Hopefully their utilisation rates will get a bit better so 6 can become the norm; the tales of standing from Sherborne to London on Saturday morning are beyond a joke now.

No mention of a later last departure from Waterloo to EXD, 20.20 is by far the earliest 'last train' to anywhere south of the Thames.

 

[BestWestern]

The first is correct at least. The second, well, I don't expect to see removal of guards from any services, but I would be surprised if there wasn't some change in operation on some services.

If there is no intention to remove Guards, it would be pointless enduring industrial action as an opener to the new franchise just to make minor tweaks. I would imagine things will either change drastically, or not at all.

 

[BestWestern]

Any news on if Rail Gourmet will be brought back in house?

Very unlikely. Mega expensive. Whether or not the same level of catering stays is more likely to be the issue.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If there is no intention to remove Guards, it would be pointless enduring industrial action as an opener to the new franchise just to make minor tweaks. I would imagine things will either change drastically, or not at all.

Driver release, guard close is already used by other franchises (VTWC, XC and was used by SN pre going fully DOO) and didn't see huge resistance when introduced - would there necessarily be strikes?

 

[Domh245]

The first is correct at least. The second, well, I don't expect to see removal of guards from any services, but I would be surprised if there wasn't some change in operation on some services.

Quoting the post

No - no requirement for any "modernisation" of staff working practices in this area - I've just asked that of First Group who confirmed that there was nothing about DOO or DCO in the final ITT.
If it's not there then the DfT can't insist new stock is built for driver only operation...

Although i suppose that just because there is no requirement for it to be introduced doesn't mean that they won't

 

[godfreycomplex]

Quoting the post



Although i suppose that just because there is no requirement for it to be introduced doesn't mean that they won't

If it's not required in the franchise why bother with all the hassle?

 

[Juniper Driver]

Their acceleration characteristics are better than Class 444/450. And they will be getting a refresh.

Eh? Not so sure about that.Plus the 444/450s aren't up to full spec anyway.

That's good news, if only it means there won't be endless strikes.

Plus the other bonus points of having a guard on board.

 

[Kite159]

As for 4 trains an hour towards Portsmouth on the Direct Line, I guess the Waterloo - Haslemere service could be extended to Portsmouth to save a path out of Waterloo.

2 fasts and 2 stoppers an hour, with the stoppers getting looped at Haslemere?

 

[godfreycomplex]

As for 4 trains an hour towards Portsmouth on the Direct Line, I guess the Waterloo - Haslemere service could be extended to Portsmouth to save a path out of Waterloo.

2 fasts and 2 stoppers an hour, with the stoppers getting looped at Haslemere?

Very possibly. Will (temporarily) stop the Liphook Mafia moaning