Aintree - London Euston after the Grand National

[matthewluck]

Hi

I wonder if anyone could let me know where we would stand if the strike action goes ahead on 8th April.

We will be leaving Aintree at around 18:30 when the last race of the day finishes.

I don't have tickets booked yet for Aintree - Liverpool. We are booked on the 19:48 Liverpool Lime St - Euston service.

If we purchase Aintree - Liverpool tickets would this mean they would need to sort out alternative transport to London in the event that we miss this last train of the day?

Cheers

 

[Bletchleyite]

If we purchase Aintree - Liverpool tickets would this mean they would need to sort out alternative transport to London in the event that we miss this last train of the day?

Officially yes (though you may find you need to argue). However, with the possibility of a strike I would make sure you have a backup plan - if the strike means no trains and is announced in advance you don't have that right.

(If you're able-bodied it's about 5 miles walk, though not through the nicest of places - given that the private hire taxis are going to be mucking around too I would ensure you plan in a couple of hours (i.e. miss the last race) to walk it if you need to, as if they aren't able to operate anything it is going to be chaos. But I would expect that if any guards do show they'll most likely operate a dedicated 6-car Liverpool Central-Aintree non-stop races service and nothing else).

 

[johnmoly]

Managers are supposed to be standing in for striking guards, its if, or, how many drivers cross the picket lines that will matter. There will be buses going past Aintree taking you into the city centre.

 

[yorkie]

Managers are supposed to be standing in for striking guards, its if, or, how many drivers cross the picket lines that will matter. There will be buses going past Aintree taking you into the city centre.

Yes but there will be increased demand for the buses and private hire drivers are throwing a major wobbler because they want to work without having a DBS clearance, so they're planning to block roads, which could impact on the buses.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Officially yes (though you may find you need to argue). However, with the possibility of a strike I would make sure you have a backup plan - if the strike means no trains and is announced in advance you don't have that right.

No they wouldn't. If the passenger is informed of delays or disruption (and they have with this strike action) prior to them buying the ticket then they don't have to get you home, nor pay any Delay Repay.

The timetable for the strike day hasn't even been published yet and it is this timetable that is important not the standard timetable.

 

[John @ home]

The timetable for the strike day hasn't even been published yet and it is this timetable that is important not the standard timetable.

The timetable which is advertised at the time of sale of the ticket is the one which is relevant for the contract between the passenger and the train companies, and it is from that timetable that Delay Repay and other rights must be calculated.

 

[Bertie the bus]

There currently isn't a timetable for 8th April, and unless something has changed since Hatfield that statement isn't correct. I had several Advance tickets purchased prior to Hatfield, but with date of travel after, and had all my claims refused as they were running to a revised timetable.

 

[6Gman]

There will be buses going past Aintree taking you into the city centre.

The buses which normally run via Aintree are diverted away on Grand National Day as that stretch of road basically turns into a coach park as 300+ coaches try to leave in the space of an hour and a bit!

Special buses are normally laid on between Aintree and Lime Street, but these are very busy and the queues for them lengthy. If the trains are not running then the bus queues will be biblical!

I honestly don't know how long (on average) it takes to work through the queue for trains at Aintree as I always walk to Old Roan to catch the train from there. But I fear that at 1830 it could take the thick end of an hour even to reach the platform!

 

[yorkie]

There currently isn't a timetable for 8th April, and unless something has changed since Hatfield that statement isn't correct. I had several Advance tickets purchased prior to Hatfield, but with date of travel after, and had all my claims refused as they were running to a revised timetable.

They were wrong to reject your claims! Consumer law and contract law do apply to rail tickets.

 

[6Gman]

Hi

I wonder if anyone could let me know where we would stand if the strike action goes ahead on 8th April.

We will be leaving Aintree at around 18:30 when the last race of the day finishes.

I don't have tickets booked yet for Aintree - Liverpool. We are booked on the 19:48 Liverpool Lime St - Euston service.

If we purchase Aintree - Liverpool tickets would this mean they would need to sort out alternative transport to London in the event that we miss this last train of the day?

Cheers

Strike or no strike I really wouldn't be confident that leaving the racecourse at 1830 would get you to Lime Street for the 1948.

 

[Merseysider]

Strike or no strike I really wouldn't be confident that leaving the racecourse at 1830 would get you to Lime Street for the 1948.

Seconded.

Sounds excessive given the relatively short distance involved, but if it was me, I certainly wouldn't be leaving anything less than an hour and a half, probably two hours. As the 1948 is the last train of the night to London, being on it would be more important than seeing another race.

 

[matthewluck]

The timetable which is advertised at the time of sale of the ticket is the one which is relevant for the contract between the passenger and the train companies, and it is from that timetable that Delay Repay and other rights must be calculated.

I've already collected my tickets with the exception of Aintree to Liverpool. So I'm going to try and purchase a single ticket from Aintree and print an itenary for the the journey Aintree to Euston.

Going to allow plenty of time to walk, if necessary

 

[matthewluck]

Seconded.

Sounds excessive given the relatively short distance involved, but if it was me, I certainly wouldn't be leaving anything less than an hour and a half, probably two hours. As the 1948 is the last train of the night to London, being on it would be more important than seeing another race.

Thanks for the advice, we are all pretty quick walkers, though I'm not so sure about after a day on the ale! Going to leave at least 1hr 45 I think.

 

[miami]

Trainline is still claiming trains are running on 8th April, and will sell a through ticket to London leaving 1850 (not that its needed) for £42 plus trainline taxes, changing Liverpool central and Liverpool line street.

If the railway wants to renege on its contract I suspect that there will be plenty of scope for claiming damages.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Thanks for the advice, we are all pretty quick walkers, though I'm not so sure about after a day on the ale! Going to leave at least 1hr 45 I think.

If you don't fancy walking the whole way you could cut through to Fazakerley - about a mile or so and pick up the number 17 in to town - they are fairly frequent and avoid the route most traffic from the racecourse in to town takes.

http://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/trav...ons/Documents/LiverpoolPublicTransportMap.pdf

 

[matthewluck]

If you don't fancy walking the whole way you could cut through to Fazakerley - about a mile or so and pick up the number 17 in to town - they are fairly frequent and avoid the route most traffic from the racecourse in to town takes.

http://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/trav...ons/Documents/LiverpoolPublicTransportMap.pdf

Thanks - this will be a good option!

 

[6Gman]

If you don't fancy walking the whole way you could cut through to Fazakerley - about a mile or so and pick up the number 17 in to town - they are fairly frequent and avoid the route most traffic from the racecourse in to town takes.

http://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/trav...ons/Documents/LiverpoolPublicTransportMap.pdf

Good call! I'd thought of suggesting going west to pick up a 56 or a 58 but the 17 would be a better option.

Using the Melling Road exit would shorten the walk as well - down Seeds Lane and along Longmoor Lane to Lower Lane for the 17 (or possibly the X3 if that runs on a Saturday evening).

 

[John @ home]

There currently isn't a timetable for 8th April

This is incorrect. At the time of writing this post, the booking engines show a service from Aintree to Liverpool Central every 15 minutes on the afternoon of Saturday 8 April 2017, with a journey time of 15 minutes. If I use an internet booking engine to buy a ticket now, any later change in timetable would not change the contract between the train company and me.

 

[AntoniC]

There is no timetable ... yet ...

They aim to have a timetable out by 31st March

Strike FAQs

The RMT union, which representing many guards on our network, has announced that its guards’ members on Merseyrail will stage a second 24-hour strike on Saturday 8 April, the day of the Grand National.

This section is designed to inform you about the dispute, providing background information and practical advice about travel on the day of the strike.

http://www.merseyrail.org/strike-action/strike-frequently-asked-questions.aspx

 

[island]

It is worth noting that section 34 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel, which passengers agree to when purchasing a ticket, excludes liability for consequential losses.

 

[miami]

It is worth noting that section 34 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel, which passengers agree to when purchasing a ticket, excludes liability for consequential losses.

Irrelevant.

"Under the Consumer Rights Act you can claim for consequential losses. This means you can claim for financial losses you have suffered as a result of the failure by the transport service.
..
For example, due to a delay or cancellation you may have missed a connecting journey and had to pay for an alternative service."

Companies can't waive the legal obligations

 

[miami]

There is no timetable ... yet ...

Yes there is

Advance Single £42
18:50 Aintree -> 22:15 London Euston
3h 25min, 2 changes

 

[AntoniC]

Yes there is

Thanks for that link, however I know which timetable I would trust and that would be the one run done by Merseyrail.

 

[yorkie]

Thanks for that link, however I know which timetable I would trust and that would be the one run done by Merseyrail.

The timetable in the system at the time of booking is what the contract is based on.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No they wouldn't. If the passenger is informed of delays or disruption (and they have with this strike action) prior to them buying the ticket then they don't have to get you home, nor pay any Delay Repay.

The timetable for the strike day hasn't even been published yet and it is this timetable that is important not the standard timetable.

I was under the impression that strikes specifically were an exception to this rule. Am I not right there? If I am not right, why are TOCs not mandated to provide replacement transport on all routes?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Managers are supposed to be standing in for striking guards, its if, or, how many drivers cross the picket lines that will matter. There will be buses going past Aintree taking you into the city centre.

There will, but I would expect them to be VERY busy and traffic congestion to be VERY bad such that the hour and a half to two hour walk could well be faster and would certainly be more reliable.

Of course this can be judged on the day, though it would mean missing the last race or two to allow that period of time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There currently isn't a timetable for 8th April, and unless something has changed since Hatfield that statement isn't correct. I had several Advance tickets purchased prior to Hatfield, but with date of travel after, and had all my claims refused as they were running to a revised timetable.

That was pre-Delay Repay wasn't it? Under the Passenger's Charter, the TOC didn't have to pay if not at fault. Now they do. I (well, work, they paid for them so the vouchers got used for work trips) had a full refund of either two or three (I forget) MKC-Edinburgh returns due to the bridge issues. I wasn't going to claim, but the initial issues were handled so badly at Preston that I wanted to give them a clout for it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The timetable in the system at the time of booking is what the contract is based on.

How does that work with regard to the queueing system that will be in operation at Aintree? Not everyone will be able to board the train of their choice even if operating normally. (Indeed, if they do do what I suspect they will and operate exclusively for racegoers there is *more* chance of getting on! Then again the other thing they could do is close Aintree station for the day and serve non-racegoers...)

 

[yorkie]

How does that work with regard to the queueing system that will be in operation at Aintree? Not everyone will be able to board the train of their choice even if operating normally. (Indeed, if they do do what I suspect they will and operate exclusively for racegoers there is *more* chance of getting on! Then again the other thing they could do is close Aintree station for the day and serve non-racegoers...)

It depends on how much someone wants to push it, and if it reached court, it would perhaps depend on various factors such as reasonableness, what was advertised in terms of queuing times, and what prior knowledge the customer had.

In practice, someone with an itinerary for Aintree to London, departing 1850, who turns up in good time and who shows the tickets to a member of staff, is likely to be fast-tracked, I'd have thought. It's not the same situation as someone making a local journey who can simply take a later train.

However if it was me travelling I'd aim to leave plenty of time.

 

[OwlMan]

Irrelevant.

"Under the Consumer Rights Act you can claim for consequential losses. This means you can claim for financial losses you have suffered as a result of the failure by the transport service.
..
For example, due to a delay or cancellation you may have missed a connecting journey and had to pay for an alternative service."

Companies can't waive the legal obligations

1) The words "Consequential Losses" do not appear in the act.

2) The only rights given under the act relevent to Railway Ticketing give a right of "reduction in price"

The terms in the NCoT may be ruled unfair under the act in future but do not as yet appear to have been.