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Bramley Moore Dock -a new station?

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HowardGWR

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A question to Scouse colleagues. If Everton move to this location (what a great idea, it would seem) then I have wondered whether a new station at Blackstone St, that would be more convenient for it, would be better located, than the present Sandhills.

Perhaps trains could stop at Sandhills for Anfield (a long walk, do they run a bus?) and Blackstone St / Bramley Moore Dock for Everton, on match days?
 
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Brian1947

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A question to Scouse colleagues. If Everton move to this location (what a great idea, it would seem) then I have wondered whether a new station at Blackstone St, that would be more convenient for it, would be better located, than the present Sandhills.

Perhaps trains could stop at Sandhills for Anfield (a long walk, do they run a bus?) and Blackstone St / Bramley Moore Dock for Everton, on match days?

As the soccer busses currently serve both grounds from Sandhills then the trip to BM dock would be shorter so building a new station just for the blues home games would, surely, not be necessary.

However, according to the mayor of Liverpool there is also £20m allocated for new roads in the vicinity, and this seems to be in addition to the £30m being spent to make the A565 into a dual carriageway all the way through to the city centre. The assumption must be that other developments are coming to fruition that might require a new station, possibly around Lightbody Street and still on the section that was originally four track. I think this was mooted many years ago though perhaps for other reasons.
 

eastdyke

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A question to Scouse colleagues. If Everton move to this location (what a great idea, it would seem) then I have wondered whether a new station at Blackstone St, that would be more convenient for it, would be better located, than the present Sandhills.

Perhaps trains could stop at Sandhills for Anfield (a long walk, do they run a bus?) and Blackstone St / Bramley Moore Dock for Everton, on match days?

Might whether, or not, that would be a good idea depend more on the anticipated usage for the other 340(ish) days in the year?
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
Regarding the proposed new stadium, is this the one that would be designed for both teams, so as when one match finishes, the spectators would simply turn round to watch the other team?

I seem to remember plans being proposed a while ago for such a design if my mind is not playing tricks on me.
 

AntoniC

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Regarding the proposed new stadium, is this the one that would be designed for both teams, so as when one match finishes, the spectators would simply turn round to watch the other team?

I seem to remember plans being proposed a while ago for such a design if my mind is not playing tricks on me.

No the new stadium will be for Everton only.

After all my beloved Liverpool FC have just upgraded the Main Stand.
 

Steelwheels

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Regarding the proposed new stadium, is this the one that would be designed for both teams, so as when one match finishes, the spectators would simply turn round to watch the other team?

I seem to remember plans being proposed a while ago for such a design if my mind is not playing tricks on me.

This stadium is planned for Everton only as the mighty Reds (Liverpool, i'm not showing my bias:lol:) have just built a new stand at Anfield and plan further development of the Anfield ground.

A station in the Vauxhall area was/is/has been mooted for some years, but as Bramley Moore Dock is only a 10/15 minute walk from Sandhills Station, it is a big ask just for it to be built for and be used every other week by Everton fans during the football season.
 

HowardGWR

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This stadium is planned for Everton only as the mighty Reds (Liverpool, i'm not showing my bias:lol:) have just built a new stand at Anfield and plan further development of the Anfield ground.

A station in the Vauxhall area was/is/has been mooted for some years, but as Bramley Moore Dock is only a 10/15 minute walk from Sandhills Station, it is a big ask just for it to be built for and be used every other week by Everton fans during the football season.

Fair enough and thanks all. About the daily use, I eyeballed the area and thought a station between Sandhills and Moorfields could perhaps be justified, as there are a lot of houses and businesses in what appears to be called the Vauxhall area. Perhaps a more southerly one, than where I suggested, could give a shortish walk to Bramley Moore Dock Stadium, from either the northern approaches (Sandhills) or this 'Vauxhall' station coming from the south, and would aid crowd dispersal.
 

AntoniC

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If, as seems likely, Everton will build their new stadium at Bramley Moore Dock, there will be plenty of land for bus stops to be built, for a soccerbus service to run from Sandhills to the stadium (and back).

The new stadium site is a good 15 minutes from both Moorfields & Sandhills stations ( I know I have walked down to Costco (which is v close to the proposed site enough times).

As for the businesses based down there, people get their car, there is one bus service (the 103) that goes down there and that only runs mornings & afternoons Mon - Fri
 

John Luxton

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The station might also be quite close to the proposed relocated Isle of Nan Steam Packet Terminal which is likely to be moved from the Present Pier Head location to near the former Waterloo Dock area.
 

Gareth

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Ideally, there should be two stations between Sandhills & Moorfields; one around Lightbody Street and another not far north of Leeds Street. Google maps suggests a station at Lightbody Street would only be an 8 minute walk from Bramley-Moore Dock, as oopposed to 13 minutes for Sandhills. I doubt Merseytravel would be confident getting two considering how long the process is to get such things approved and built in this country. If just one of the two got built, then the other could easily be decades away or never happen, risking sub-optimum station-spacing. If they were to go for just one, then a site around the northern part of Love Lane would be more equidistant between Sandhills and Moorfields; still relatively handy for much of the central docks but about 11 minutes from Bramley-Moore; thus only marginally better than Sandhills.

The ideal solution for Bramley-Moore and the rest of the central docks would be a revived Overhead Railway, in the form of a DLR-type system. The route would be broadly similar to the old one connceting with Brunswick at the south (possibly even Dingle!) and running along the waterfront. I wouldn't run it as far north as the orignal though and would make it interchange with Sandhills, which would allow interchange with all three Northern Line branches.

Sadly, the area in question has a rather sparse population these days and is currently mostly light industry and empty warehouses. What little housing there still is tends to be bungalows and, if your lucky, Brookside-type estates, which Liverpool's planning department still find so agreeable. The long term plans are for this to change considerably with Liverpool Waters and supporting initiatives but these are very long term (we're talking decades) if they're ever realised at all. Currently, even a single station on the Northern Line between Sandhills & Moorfields may be deemed a big ask. It's a shame too, as the five minute frequency on that stretch should be taken advantage of as much as is reasonably possible.
 

Bletchleyite

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It's such a short section that I can only see justification for one - perhaps just before the line dives into tunnel. Could be called Eldonian or Vauxhall.

Re the overhead, the dock road is not busy at all and is very wide, so trams would be cheaper.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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Gareth

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I don't think stations a mile or so apart in an inner city area is unreasonable. It still probably wouldn't happen for the reasons I stated though.

The dock road currently isn't that busy but I was talking longer term, as with the Liverpool Waters plans. An Overhead would essentially be a tram on a viaduct anyway. As things stand today, even a reliable bus service is probably too much to ask for.
 
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8A Rail

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Regarding the proposed new stadium, is this the one that would be designed for both teams, so as when one match finishes, the spectators would simply turn round to watch the other team?

I seem to remember plans being proposed a while ago for such a design if my mind is not playing tricks on me.

It was thought about when the previous owners of LFC were there, who generally talked out of their backsides and they were proposing a new stadium in Stanley Park, it was then that the talk of joint stadium came about. In reality, it was never going to happen, a new stadium or even a joint stadium - real pie in the sky!

As for Bramley Dock, why mention a station when it is not even 100% sure that EFC are definitely going there! Likewise, if they go there, still no justification of a station either. Better ways of spending money than something like that! Sorry!
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It's such a short section that I can only see justification for one - perhaps just before the line dives into tunnel. Could be called Eldonian or Vauxhall.

Re the overhead, the dock road is not busy at all and is very wide, so trams would be cheaper. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I would agree there.
 

childwallblues

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A move by the blues to Bramley Moore Dock would certainly mean that the City Councils long term ambition of a station in the Vauxhall area would come to fruition.
 

HowardGWR

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A move by the blues to Bramley Moore Dock would certainly mean that the City Councils long term ambition of a station in the Vauxhall area would come to fruition.

Indeed, I read today that the deal has been agreed and the planning hoops need to be gone through. Is not one of those hoops that a comprehensive travel plan should give maximum rail access to this site?
 

Old Yard Dog

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Bramley Moore dock is within reasonable walking distance of Sandhills station, the distance being shorter than Kirkdale to Goodison. Probably too near for the present SoccerBus from Sandhills to continue. I would imagine there would be more demand for direct buses to the city centre and Lime Street.

How well is the SoccerBus service coping with the increased crowds at Anfield now the capacity has been increased to 54,000?

Parking near both grounds has been disappearing bit by bit over the years as new housing is built on formerly derelict sites.

I'll be glad when Everton's new ground comes to pass. Historic and atmospheric though Goodison is, there are far too many seriously obstructed views.
 
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childwallblues

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Indeed, I read today that the deal has been agreed and the planning hoops need to be gone through. Is not one of those hoops that a comprehensive travel plan should give maximum rail access to this site?

All that happened today was that Everton FC now have a Heads of Agreement with Peel Ports to purchase land at Bramley Moore Dock. This is the first stage in a very long process.
This does however have great significance railway wise as in my opinion it brings the building of a new station between Moorfields and Sandhills significantly closer to fruition.
 

PR1Berske

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"Vauxhall Bramley Moore" would be a great name for a station *and* a villain in an airport paperback thriller.
 

Mikey C

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-39380331

Liverpool council are interested in using this stadium to host the 2022 Commonwealth games, presumably following the template that Manchester did with the COMS.

I imagine that this would give added impetus for building an additional station to serve the stadium, which would also help revitalise the surrounding area.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-39380331

Liverpool council are interested in using this stadium to host the 2022 Commonwealth games, presumably following the template that Manchester did with the COMS.

I imagine that this would give added impetus for building an additional station to serve the stadium, which would also help revitalise the surrounding area.

How far advanced is the decision concerning the location of the 2022 Commonwealth Games, as a few years are usually allowed for the successful city to carry out its plans?
 

Mikey C

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How far advanced is the decision concerning the location of the 2022 Commonwealth Games, as a few years are usually allowed for the successful city to carry out its plans?

It was meant to be Durban, but they've pulled out as basically they can't afford it.

Liverpool were originally interested in 2026, but 2022 is now free. Short notice though...
 

Old Yard Dog

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-39380331

Liverpool council are interested in using this stadium to host the 2022 Commonwealth games, presumably following the template that Manchester did with the COMS.

I imagine that this would give added impetus for building an additional station to serve the stadium, which would also help revitalise the surrounding area.

Athletics and football do not mix and I should know as I follow a non-league team who play at an athletics stadium and we hate it. And nice though places like the Etihad are, taking out the track doesn't bring stands any nearer the pitch. And at the London stadium, you are so far from the action that there are now plans to use the ground for cricket.

Athletics is a greedy sport which demands new stadia for one-off events which either become white elephants (Sheffield, White City, Beijing, Montreal, Amsterdam, ...) - or have to be endured by football fans for decades to come until they have had enough (Rome, Munich, Barcelona (Espanyol), Wembley, ...).
 

Camden

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In Glasgow, an existing stadium was converted by effectively raising the floor and losing the lower tier of seats to create an area big enough for the running track.

Since the stadium will be brand new, it seems like a good way to make it dual purpose without sacrificing anything by designing it in such a way that this type of conversion is not only possible but gives optimal results in either configuration.
 

childwallblues

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In Glasgow, an existing stadium was converted by effectively raising the floor and losing the lower tier of seats to create an area big enough for the running track.

Since the stadium will be brand new, it seems like a good way to make it dual purpose without sacrificing anything by designing it in such a way that this type of conversion is not only possible but gives optimal results in either configuration.

Everton FC are planning to use the stadium from the start of the 2020/21 season.
 

childwallblues

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Soccerbus has largely been superceded in recent years by Stagecoach introducing soccer services 917 (Anfield) and 919 (Goodison) from the City Centre which appear to be preferred by fans. Goodison Park is also within walking distance of Kirkdale Station which is on both the Ormskirk and Kirkby lines.
 

Old Yard Dog

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It looks like Arriva & Stagecoach are trying to set up a "formal partnership" (cartel?) with the local council to dominate the Liverpool bus network.

SoccerBus is operated by a small local operator called The People's Bus.
 

childwallblues

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It looks like Arriva & Stagecoach are trying to set up a "formal partnership" (cartel?) with the local council to dominate the Liverpool bus network.

SoccerBus is operated by a small local operator called The People's Bus.

Stagecoach and Arriva already do dominate local services.
 
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