help with reply (in first class on standard class ticket)

[kingk]

Earlier this month I was traveling from Liverpool Street to Chelmsford station on a standard class season ticket but sat in the first class section (under the impression that I can upgrade my ticket).

Railways inspector checked my ticket, I expressed the desire to upgrade my ticket or pay penalty fare. The inspector's colleague shows his card, read my rights and I provided my details as well as answered the questions (such as where I am traveling to (answer: chelmsford), do I have means to upgrade the ticket (answer yes), why I am in the first class (answer: wanted to update the ticket, and was not aware it could not be done, happy to pay the penalty fare) etc).

I have received a letter today asking to confirm if I am the same person and any mitigating circumstance. I now know it's wrong to be in the first class with first buying the ticked. I am also sorry about it, but am not sure about what wording should I use for reply. Not being from the UK, I don't want to waste their time and want to reply in the right way to resolve the issue. Can someone help me with this--I have read other threads and have see the general advice but wonder if someone can provide more specific wording or willing to look at my draft.

Thank you for reading this and any help.

 

[yorkie]

By offering to pay the Penalty Fare, you are admitting that you know that the company operates a Penalty Fare scheme, and that you know you should have visited the ticket office first.

As you've admitted it, your best bet is to apologise and try to reach an out of court settlement.

I don't think we can provide wording for you, but we would be happy to proof read.

 

[AlterEgo]

Why did you proactively offer to pay a Penalty Fare? (As that's how it reads in the OP)

 

[Merseysider]

I presume this was not on a weekend? GA offer a £10 pay-onboard supplement to First Class on S/S/BH.

If you were genuinely of the belief that it was ok to upgrade on board, it will help your case immensely if you can find an official document or notice stating that this is acceptable. I've already tried, but found these instead...

From several pages on Greater Anglia's website:

First Class upgrade
If you hold a Standard Class ticket, prior to travel, you are able to upgrade to travel in First Class on payment of an Excess fare.

Standard Class Season Ticket holders may upgrade their Season Ticket to First Class at the ticket office before they board the train (or on the train if there is no open ticket office where you board the train).

Please buy the appropriate additional ticket at the ticket office before you travel, if your Season Ticket has expired, does not cover your journey in full, has been left behind (see admin charges below), or is for Standard Class accommodation but you wish to travel First Class.

If you are travelling from a penalty fare station on a penalty fare train and your Season Ticket does not cover you for all of your journey, you must buy an accompanying ticket or permit to travel, if you are able to*, before you start your journey. If you do not you may be liable to a Penalty Fare.

I'm not passing judgement, or accusing you, however your post does come across a little like you were chancing it, and GA may interpret it this way too. Many people do knowingly sit in First Class with a Standard Class ticket - I see it on a monthly basis - and unfortunately the train companies have heard every excuse in the book.

If you proffered a Penalty Fare then GA will possibly draw the conclusion that you knew you should have paid before boarding, especially given the extracts from their website I've quoted above. Your letter will need to remain concise but also contain an acknowledgement that you did wrong, won't do it again, and are willing to cover their costs incurred thus far.

 

[kingk]

Why did you proactively offer to pay a Penalty Fare? (As that's how it reads in the OP)

I offered to pay the penalty fair because i realized that i can not upgrade my ticket in the train (which I wrongly assumed was the case).

 

[kingk]

By offering to pay the Penalty Fare, you are admitting that you know that the company operates a Penalty Fare scheme, and that you know you should have visited the ticket office first.

As you've admitted it, your best bet is to apologise and try to reach an out of court settlement.

I don't think we can provide wording for you, but we would be happy to proof read.

What's the best way to share my draft response so u can review it?

 

[najaB]

Earlier this month I was traveling from Liverpool Street to Chelmsford station on a standard class season ticket but sat in the first class section (under the impression that I can upgrade my ticket).

Do you remember the ultimate destination of the train you boarded?

 

[kingk]

I am afraid I don't remember the ultimate destination of the train. Is it important?

 

[kingk]

I have check the time table and most probably I was on Liverpool Street to Braintree train. Also my journey was during weekdays.

 

[boxy321]

Under the impression I can upgrade my ticket if it get's checked before I get off.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Under the impression I can upgrade my ticket if it get's checked before I get off.

Not in a Penalty Fares area.

 

[najaB]

I am afraid I don't remember the ultimate destination of the train. Is it important?

I have check the time table and most probably I was on Liverpool Street to Braintree train. Also my journey was during weekdays.

]If it was a Braintree train then I believe those are driver-only. That means that there wouldn't necessarily have been an opportunity to upgrade on the train even if it were possible. This weakens your case considerably.

 

[kingk]

]If it was a Braintree train then I believe those are driver-only. That means that there wouldn't necessarily have been an opportunity to upgrade on the train even if it were possible. This weakens your case considerably.

Understood.

What is the best response given the situation? I want to resolve the issue as amicably as it's possible. Also, thanks for offering to look at my draft answer, what is the best way to share my draft with you.

 

[najaB]

Also, thanks for offering to look at my draft answer, what is the best way to share my draft with you.

You can either post it publicly (removing any personal information) or if you click on a username next to a post there's an option to send a private message.

 

[Fare-Cop]

Under the impression I can upgrade my ticket if it get's checked before I get off.

Not in a Penalty Fares area.

Not in any area really - it's only acceptable IF there was no open ticket office at the point where the traveller starts the journey.

A link to the National Rail Season Ticket conditions can be found here:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46571.aspx

I have check the time table and most probably I was on Liverpool Street to Braintree train. Also my journey was during weekdays.

Obviously, full open ticket office services were therefore available at Liverpool Street station and on that basis, the RPI may well have formed the opinion that:

i) the traveller is a season ticket holder on the route & journey being made and knows the train is driver only operated,

ii) the traveller could have upgraded at the ticket office before boarding but did not do so,

and

iii) if the spot-check had not been made, the traveller intended to travel First Class, but intended avoiding payment of the appropriate fare due unless challenged.

That is sufficient for the TOC to proceed to prosecution.

As you have already suggested, it is probably best to:

a) offer an apology for your oversight in assuming that it was OK to pay on train,

b) give an undertaking not to travel without a valid ticket in future

and

c) offer to pay the outstanding fare and any costs reasonably incurred by the TOC in dealing with this matter.

 

[kingk]

Thanks for good suggestions and detailed responses. Being in distress I have found your help very encouraging and would like to thank the forum and all the individuals.

 

[furlong]

Not in any area really - it's only acceptable IF there was no open ticket office at the point where the traveller starts the journey.

(Or, for completeness, if it's a service that offers Weekend First supplements on board. Not applicable in the case in this thread, but the Conditions of Travel may prove to be less enforceable than the Conditions of Carriage used to be due to the removal of both the explicit condition 39(a) and condition 3, together with the new ability to argue a breach of 6.1 when the only facilities available at the origin station are machines that offer neither the right excess nor a permit to travel.)

 

[kingk]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for their help and wanted to update that the matter has been settled now with me paying £50--admin cost plus fare.
Thanks

 

[najaB]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for their help and wanted to update that the matter has been settled now with me paying £50--admin cost plus fare.
Thanks

Glad to hear it. Thanks for letting us know.