Will Heathrow expansion mean more trains and lines?

[Old Yard Dog]

Doesn't have to be the same airline at all, it just has to be a through ticket.
As an example, it is perfectly possible for a travel agent to issue a ticket starting on BA from Newcastle and changing at Heathrow to a Virgin Atlantic flight. This is despite the two airlines being bitter rivals for years. Once the ticket is issued, through-checked baggage applies, and the protections apply if the connection is missed due to late or cancelled first flight. You just won't find these tickets on BA or Virgin's websites, it does need a travel agent to issue them.

Out of interest, how "affordable" would through tickets issued by travel agents be for connecting flights operated by rival airlines?

For example, how would the fare for MAN-LHR (BA) LHR-Boston (Virgin Atlantic) compare with the fare when both flights are operated by the same operator?

 

[JohnRegular]

I think it would be great to see Heathrow become a rail hub, not unlike Schiphol. If HS2 were to serve Heathrow then it ought to help reduce the number of domestic flights to the North, and if we see more access to Heathrow from conventional railways it also might reduce people interchanging in central London.

Of course, I imagine neither of these advantages will be enough to justify the costs involved... thought I'd be curious to see how many passengers have long distance tickets that are routed though central London.

 

[matt_world2004]

Could Heathrow trains run to luton with the connection that the gwml has to a line that leads to the thameslink line

 

[D365]

Could Heathrow trains run to luton with the connection that the gwml has to a line that leads to the thameslink line

Better to wait for Crossrail to launch and to change at Farringdon.

 

[BananaRepublic]

Before anyone gets carried away with fantasy ideas for through train services via Heathrow (e.g. Woking to OOC HS2), it has to be borne in mind that the railway from just south of Airport Junction and through the Heathrow tunnels, including the stations at T2+3, T4 & T5, are privately owned by HAL.
Any such proposed through services will not be allowed to compromise the ability to provide passenger capacity to/from the airport itself. In other words travel to/from the airport will be prioritised over travel via, but not to or from the airport itself.

If such services are initiated at some future point, it is entirely conceivable that if capacity issues arise, then the through services would be stopped. If R3 and it's associated new terminal are approved, with the declared intention to increase rail's share of surface travel to/ from the airport, there is very little likelihood that there will be sufficient capacity to accommodate through trains, other than as split services for the purpose of maximising rail capacity (paths and platform occupancy).

 

[edwin_m]

Before anyone gets carried away with fantasy ideas for through train services via Heathrow (e.g. Woking to OOC HS2), it has to be borne in mind that the railway from just south of Airport Junction and through the Heathrow tunnels, including the stations at T2+3, T4 & T5, are privately owned by HAL.
Any such proposed through services will not be allowed to compromise the ability to provide passenger capacity to/from the airport itself. In other words travel to/from the airport will be prioritised over travel via, but not to or from the airport itself.

If such services are initiated at some future point, it is entirely conceivable that if capacity issues arise, then the through services would be stopped. If R3 and it's associated new terminal are approved, with the declared intention to increase rail's share of surface travel to/ from the airport, there is very little likelihood that there will be sufficient capacity to accommodate through trains, other than as split services for the purpose of maximising rail capacity (paths and platform occupancy).

That is so and some sort of long-term deal would have to be struck to ensure that Heathrow couldn't withdraw the running rights and prevent whoever (public or private) invested in the new rail link from getting the benefits.

However a Woking-Paddington service would attract non-Heathrow journeys that would improve its BCR, which makes it more likely that people other than Heathrow will want to pay some of the cost. The extra service then helps Heathrow towards its public transport mode share target and perhaps even attracts more passengers to use Heathrow rather than some other airport.

Through trains would also be more capacity-efficient, as they would not require extra platforms or sidings in the vicinity of Heathrow to reverse.

 

[The Ham]

That is so and some sort of long-term deal would have to be struck to ensure that Heathrow couldn't withdraw the running rights and prevent whoever (public or private) invested in the new rail link from getting the benefits.

However a Woking-Paddington service would attract non-Heathrow journeys that would improve its BCR, which makes it more likely that people other than Heathrow will want to pay some of the cost. The extra service then helps Heathrow towards its public transport mode share target and perhaps even attracts more passengers to use Heathrow rather than some other airport.

Through trains would also be more capacity-efficient, as they would not require extra platforms or sidings in the vicinity of Heathrow to reverse.

Quite, compare the number of services that run through Clapham Junction and the number that start/end at Waterloo. It is why I think that through trains are more likely than not as capacity continues to grow.

It is currently very hard to get to Heathrow from the SWML using public transport. As such provide a reasonable service and passenger numbers will jump dramatically.

 

[jzw95]

Of course, I imagine neither of these advantages will be enough to justify the costs involved... thought I'd be curious to see how many passengers have long distance tickets that are routed though central London.

I've been told that approx. 60,000 people/year travel by rail from Scotland-London to connect onto flights at Heathrow. So not nothing, but not significant in terms of the overall travel market. However, I think it shows that the appetite is there, given that it's an awkward connection and you need lots of buffer time to avoid missed connections. A seamless one-ticket, guaranteed connection would surely make this a lot more attractive.

 

[jzw95]

Out of interest, how "affordable" would through tickets issued by travel agents be for connecting flights operated by rival airlines?

For example, how would the fare for MAN-LHR (BA) LHR-Boston (Virgin Atlantic) compare with the fare when both flights are operated by the same operator?

The answer is they compare very well. I recently booked a ticket like this using BA for the domestic flight, connecting to a Virgin Atlantic long-haul. The price was slightly less (by £10 or so) than the comparable BA+BA flight. Found using SkyScanner, booked through an online travel agent, so no special wrangling needed. These are generally available fares. I was pretty surprised given BA and Virgin's history!

 

[didcotdean]

There may well be a regulatory requirement relating to BA connections at Heathrow arising from their acquisition of bmi. It therefore may not be a good example to extrapolate from.

 

[jzw95]

There may well be a regulatory requirement relating to BA connections at Heathrow arising from their acquisition of bmi. It therefore may not be a good example to extrapolate from.

As far as I'm aware, the only regulatory requirement was that BA/bmi slots at Heathrow be made available for another airline to fly a certain number of Edinburgh-Heathrow and Aberdeen-Heathrow routes. Virgin Red did this initially, but ceased (in 2015?). Flybe are now giving it a go (as of this year). I've never heard of any interlining requirements placed on BA forcing them to offer joint tickets to feed onto other airlines' flights.

 

[fowler9]

When I spent 6 1/2 months on a round the world plane ticket on the One World alliance it was actually free to fly from Manchester to Heathrow and back at either end of the trip. Free in the sense that the overall ticket cost no more. Was quite surprised to be honest.

 

[Bald Rick]

When I spent 6 1/2 months on a round the world plane ticket on the One World alliance it was actually free to fly from Manchester to Heathrow and back at either end of the trip. Free in the sense that the overall ticket cost no more. Was quite surprised to be honest.

Quite common for long haul flights. My last return ticket to Australia included one free change per direction, so I went to Ayers Rock via Perth on the way out, and from Melbourne via Sydney on the way back, both for free!

 

[fowler9]

Quite common for long haul flights. My last return ticket to Australia included one free change per direction, so I went to Ayers Rock via Perth on the way out, and from Melbourne via Sydney on the way back, both for free!

Never knew that. I guess my question would have to be if HS2 went to Heathrow what would the chances of it being free if you were connecting with a long haul flight?

 

[cle]

I'd imagine that with the third runway, and general business and infrastructure-friendly Tory direction, we will see quite a lot of change.

The WRaTH project could see Crossrail to Reading via Heathrow, or possibly faster services. With the flyover works, both fast and slow can access T5 nicely. Pathing is the trickier part especially with the fasts. On the slows, there is more capacity and stopping patterns with Crossrail/GW services could be played with to even things out.

There was also talk of services to Basingstoke and beyond. And E/W Rail too - but I think both are quite unlikely for a good while.