• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
113,743
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
3141 said:
People have been getting wider during the past 25 years (probably more). I don't recall complaints about 3+2 in 4VEPs or 313/315s. Or even about 6 a side in compartments in 4SUB/EPBs. When class 165s arrived in 1991 I found the rows of three adequate, though I was narrower then, and their coaches are wider than most.. If collectively we eat more and can no longer fit into a row of three seats on a train we'll have to accept the consequence that fewer of us will be able to sit down.
Click to expand...


I'm not on about fat people. People, even lean athletes, are getting bigger too. 3+2 has had its day.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

3141

3141

Established Member
Joined
1 Apr 2012
Messages
2,124
Location
Whitchurch, Hampshire
infobleep said:
If that is the case then would it not make sense to remove the middle seat of three, as fewer of us are able to sit down anyway due to people's width.
Click to expand...

Defeatist!!:) 3 seats = 3 people who don't eat too much can sit down. 2 seats = one of them can't. (And having a bit more space to stand in won't compensate.)
 
I

infobleep

On Moderation
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
13,453
3141 said:
Defeatist!!:) 3 seats = 3 people who don't eat too much can sit down. 2 seats = one of them can't. (And having a bit more space to stand in won't compensate.)
Click to expand...
True but it seems people are not using the middle seat unless it's heavily packed. All the people. Standing can't surely be fat and not that all those sitting down.
 
C

ChiefPlanner

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2011
Messages
8,333
Location
Herts
Surely the bigger issues of the franchise ought to be considered versus the issues on middle seat occupation ?
 
R

radamfi

Established Member
Joined
29 Oct 2009
Messages
9,267
3+2 seating is inappropriate for normal sized adults with the narrow British loading gauge. They have 3+3 seating on the Copenhagen S-tog but that seems to be less cramped.
 
T

The Ham

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Jul 2012
Messages
12,036
Neil Williams said:
Car parks need switching to herringbone layout - all of them.
philthetube said:
No, car parks need to charge according to car size.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Both of those suggestions would lead to a reduction in car parking spaces.

Herringbone layouts are only good where it allows more space due to the limited width of the car park area due to not needing the aisles to be as wide (3.4m at 45° vs 6m for a traditional layout).

Standard car parking bays are 2.4m wide, which is generally fine for most cars (you may need to park a small car next to van or large 4x4), of you increase this so that each bay is 2.5m wide you reduce the number of spaces by about 5%, although this can be higher where there are lots of short lengths of bays.

Often the car parks where spaces are too small are those where someone has opted for parking bays of less than 2.4m wide. Even just a small difference, to say 2.35m, becomes very noticeable.

I do think that there could be a case (for instance where there is an extra 1m at the end of a row of parking) to have some wider parking bays within car parks for vans and the like to use. As this could reduce some of the problems without altering car park capacity.
 
HH

HH

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2009
Messages
4,505
Location
Essex
The problem is the prevalence of the 'chelsea tractor'. Every time one of these monsters is parked it throws out the whole row, because the bay width is just about big enough for a normal car. I've now taken to parking elsewhere than the station car park, where the bays are wide enough, so I'm not having to squeeze my car in, or come back and find I can't get in because one parked next to me.
 
F

FenMan

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2011
Messages
1,542
Morgsie said:
Govia operate the GTR Management Contract

As for the First speculation if First/MTR do gain the South Western Franchise then what about competition rules given First run buses in the Franchise area (they operate buses in Dorset around Dorchester and Weymouth and in Southampton to name example) and operate GWR. Begs the question what happens to GWR?
Click to expand...

Nothing at all. For example, Stagecoach have a bus monopoly in Farnborough and Aldershot. And boy do they make the locals pay! ("I didn't want to buy the bus, I only wanted a ride on it" etc.).
 
bb21

bb21

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
24,467
FenMan said:
Nothing at all. For example, Stagecoach have a bus monopoly in Farnborough and Aldershot. And boy do they make the locals pay! ("I didn't want to buy the bus, I only wanted a ride on it" etc.).
Click to expand...

Both "Aldershot and District" and "Hants and Surrey" historically charged relatively high fares to maintain service frequency from what I can recall.
 
A

adamello

Member
Joined
9 Nov 2016
Messages
233
FenMan said:
Nothing at all. For example, Stagecoach have a bus monopoly in Farnborough and Aldershot. And boy do they make the locals pay! ("I didn't want to buy the bus, I only wanted a ride on it" etc.).
Click to expand...

also SWT aren't the only rail franchise that operates from Southampton, 4 TOCs pass through, although another is a first franchise

and as for the bus, although Southampton has a large first operation, there is also a large go-ahead operation
 
Helvellyn

Helvellyn

Established Member
Joined
28 Aug 2009
Messages
2,581
Goldfish62 said:
It's pure industry speculation on the basis that DfT have effectively stopped talking to Stagecoach but are still talking to First MTR. Claimed as a reliable indicator but not always accurate.
Click to expand...
Yet the flip side could be that with 21 years running the TOC DfT feel that Stagecoach have a solid bid that needs little clarification, whilst with First/MTR the ongoing conversations could be to stress test everything. This is a franchise that has a wealthy commuter base and serves some very solid Tory seats. Chris Grayling surely wouldn't want to sign off on a change of operator without being absolutely sure it was going to stand up?
 
HH

HH

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2009
Messages
4,505
Location
Essex
Helvellyn said:
Yet the flip side could be that with 21 years running the TOC DfT feel that Stagecoach have a solid bid that needs little clarification, whilst with First/MTR the ongoing conversations could be to stress test everything. This is a franchise that has a wealthy commuter base and serves some very solid Tory seats. Chris Grayling surely wouldn't want to sign off on a change of operator without being absolutely sure it was going to stand up?
Click to expand...

You are absolutely right when it comes to a new Operator. You are, however, rather less right in your assumptions regarding an incumbent. While the stress testing may be a bit less in some areas, it is fully engaged on most, e.g. on plans for new rolling stock, ticketing, fares, revenue protection, operations, marketing, customer service, etc. etc. etc.
 
B

BR67

Member
Joined
15 Oct 2013
Messages
22
HarleyDavidson said:
Hearing that FG and MTR have won the SWT franchise from Stagecoach.
Click to expand...
Actually, it's the DfT they've won it from. ;)

FirstGroup plc and MTR Corporation Limited welcome today's announcement by the
Department for Transport ('DfT') of its intention to award the new South
Western rail franchise to our 70:30 joint venture First MTR South Western
Trains Limited (the 'Franchise Operator'). The new franchise will operate from
20 August 2017 until at least August 2024.
Click to expand...

http://otp.investis.com/generic/regulatory-story.aspx?newsid=857157&cid=858
 
S

Suraggu

Member
Joined
23 Oct 2013
Messages
1,083
Location
The Far North
18 'refurbished' trains going on the London -Pompey route, that will be the Class 442 fleet that I mentioned one bidder were actively looking at.
 
Bungle965

Bungle965

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
2 Jul 2014
Messages
3,386
Location
Calder Valley
Suraggu said:
18 'refurbished' trains going on the London -Pompey route, that will be the Class 442 fleet that I mentioned one bidder were actively looking at.
Click to expand...

Yep the statement even mentions them.
We will introduce charging points on all other mainland trains - Class
442s, Class 444s and 450s by December 2018, Class 158s and 159s by December
2020
Click to expand...
Sam
 
Y

YorkshireBear

Established Member
Joined
23 Jul 2010
Messages
9,671
Can I be the first to say that this announcement is very positive. 100% because we can instantly now stop ALL class 442 rumour/ideas threads.
 
T

TEW

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2008
Messages
6,228
SpacePhoenix said:
From: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...n-trains-limited-wins-south-western-franchise



Would that suggest a follow-on order for more 707s or a completely new order for 707s (if the latter would that point to all the 455s being got rid of)?
Click to expand...

http://www.firstgroupplc.com/about-firstgroup/uk-rail/improving-south-western-railway.aspx

90 trains, but 750 carriages according to that. So they're going to be long trains. The current 455, 456, 458 and 707 fleet add up to 742 carriages by my sums. There's also talk of a consistent metro fleet. I reckon they could all be replaced.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top