Southern OBS: Poor Knowlege/Training

[Sprinter153]

I've raised concerns before about the rather cringeworthy standards of GTR's new Southern OBS staff.

Poor announcements are regular enough as I've written elsewhere (advice for connections that don't exist, and they clearly haven't been shown how to make a good announcement) and ticket checks are just as rare as they were with real guards. It doesn't seem to be any better when they actually do check tickets.

This evening I travelled on a 'Horsham stopper' service from Victoria, holding the return portion of a Priv-discounted Super Off Peak Return from Earlswood to The Hawthorns routed Via High Wycome. The OBS came round just after East Croydon to check tickets. After a long period of thought he asked where I was travelling from and to. He prodded away at his Envoy tablet. After a while he declared that the ticket wasn't valid... because the train doesn't go via High Wycombe.

I mean, really? That feels patently absurd to me. Training or no training it feels obvious that the overall journey needs to go via High Wycombe, not each leg.

He walked off wordlessly after I explained what was wrong with his view. It just makes me worry what 'normal' passengers with no idea of their rights or how to argue them would fare. It would be funny if it wasn't tragic.

I'm already embroiled in dispute with GTR customer services over a delay repay claim for a delay of well over an hour, which they claim has no basis as 'there was less than 15 minutes of delay'. It seems pointless raising anything with them as the response is laughably generic or incorrect.

 

[yorkie]

It seems pointless raising anything with them as the response is laughably generic or incorrect.

It isn't pointless if you refer them to the appropriate bodies if they don't address the issues.

You can inform the ORR that consumer law breaches are occurring (the OBS demonstrated intent to make an unlawful charge, contrary to consumer law) and this was only averted because you argued, and you can inform the DfT that franchise breaches are occurring (the OBS demonstrated intent to make an unlawful charge, contrary to GTR's franchise commitments) and you could refer GTR's lack of correct responses to London Travelwatch / Passenger Focus.

 

[Starmill]

From the conversations I have had with these staff, this seems to be fairly typical, unfortunately.

 

[CentralTrainer]

From the conversations I have had with these staff, this seems to be fairly typical, unfortunately.

At least it saves money though...

 

[Bletchleyite]

At least it saves money though...

It's totally clear GTR do not want these staff, will not invest in them, and will get rid of them as soon as they can.

 

[Polarbear]

I suspect that the OBS concerned may be somewhat lacking in geographical knowledge of the UK as well? I'm always surprised by the number of people, (not just those who work in the transport sector), who don't have even a basic grasp of where places are in relation to one another.

Strictly, you could argue that on one point at least, the OBS was correct in that the train HE was on didn't go via High Wycombe, but I do appreciate that's not the point at issue here.

 

[Ralph Ayres]

Oh dear. There's another Earlswood station in the West Midlands not too far from The Hawthorns... Doesn't excuse the RPI but might explain things a bit.

 

[najaB]

I suspect that the OBS concerned may be somewhat lacking in geographical knowledge of the UK as well? I'm always surprised by the number of people, (not just those who work in the transport sector), who don't have even a basic grasp of where places are in relation to one another.

Quick, without looking on Google Maps, etc. - which is closer to Dundee - Pickletillum or Friockheim?

Bit of an extreme example but it makes the point that the UK is a big place and not everyone will know all of it.

(It's Pickletillum, by the way)

 

[Polarbear]

Quick, without looking on Google Maps, etc. - which is closer to Dundee - Pickletillum or Friockheim?

Bit of an extreme example but it makes the point that the UK is a big place and not everyone will know all of it.

(It's Pickletillum, by the way)

Fair point (I've driven through Friockheim so I know it's close to Dundee). That said, High Wycombe isn't exactly a small village in the Scottish countryside.

 

[paddington]

Quick, without looking on Google Maps, etc. - which is closer to Dundee - Pickletillum or Friockheim?

Bit of an extreme example but it makes the point that the UK is a big place and not everyone will know all of it.

But the point should be that if they don't know, they either find out or do nothing, rather than lie or make stuff up or pretend they know.

 

[najaB]

But the point should be that if they don't know, they either find out or do nothing, rather than lie or make stuff up or pretend they know.

I don't disagree with you there - but perhaps they *thought* they knew the answer. The truly incompetent person doesn't know they are incompetent.

 

[sarahj]

Come on, I'm a conductor with 9 years exp, and I'd have to think twice about the ticket as I've no idea where Hawthorns is. Mind the via HW might give it away. As it's to/from a destination on our route to a destination not on our route via a reasonably known town then that is the clincher.

In a way I do feel sorry for the newbies in that job for reasons...well, I could say, but won't.

 

[cjmillsnun]

In a way I do feel sorry for the newbies in that job for reasons...well, I could say, but won't.

I feel sorry for all staff at the sharp end of GTR.

 

[sheff1]

Come on, I'm a conductor with 9 years exp, and I'd have to think twice about the ticket as I've no idea where Hawthorns is.

Yes, I would expect someone to think twice but, having done so, to then declare that the ticket wasn't valid because the train doesn't go via High Wycombe is worrying. Leaving aside the fact that HW is, as you say, a reasonably known town in its own right and is slso a common routing point for railway tickets, as the ticket has the Maltese Cross symbol that should surely suggest to any half competent person that the traveller had crossed London and was now en route to the destination station on the ticket at which the 'Horsham stopper' calls.

 

[swt class 450]

I've raised concerns before about the rather cringeworthy standards of GTR's new Southern OBS staff.

Poor announcements are regular enough as I've written elsewhere (advice for connections that don't exist, and they clearly haven't been shown how to make a good announcement) and ticket checks are just as rare as they were with real guards. It doesn't seem to be any better when they actually do check tickets.

This evening I travelled on a 'Horsham stopper' service from Victoria, holding the return portion of a Priv-discounted Super Off Peak Return from Earlswood to The Hawthorns routed Via High Wycome. The OBS came round just after East Croydon to check tickets. After a long period of thought he asked where I was travelling from and to. He prodded away at his Envoy tablet. After a while he declared that the ticket wasn't valid... because the train doesn't go via High Wycombe.

I mean, really? That feels patently absurd to me. Training or no training it feels obvious that the overall journey needs to go via High Wycombe, not each leg.

He walked off wordlessly after I explained what was wrong with his view. It just makes me worry what 'normal' passengers with no idea of their rights or how to argue them would fare. It would be funny if it wasn't tragic.

I'm already embroiled in dispute with GTR customer services over a delay repay claim for a delay of well over an hour, which they claim has no basis as 'there was less than 15 minutes of delay'. It seems pointless raising anything with them as the response is laughably generic or incorrect.

Having OBS on board trains is the most useless and pointless thing ever. Your experience of them not knowing about that ticket really does not surprise me at all.

I have now been on 38 Gatwick Express branded trains with an OBS and only 4 of them have bothered to check tickets (which was twice on Monday and twice on Wednesday both this week). The rest of them just hide in the rear cab for the whole entire journey. Unfortunately these OBS that did check tickets were very rude and incompetent and had threatening attitudes (as i mentioned in another thread recently). Whilst on Southern branded trains i have now been on 54 trains with an OBS and not a single one of them has walked through the train or checked tickets. Although to be fair even before OBS were introduced Guards never bothered to walk through the train and check tickets. The last time that i had my tickets checked on Southern was in October in 2015 (about a year and a half ago).

The OBS are also meant to insert their key in the door control panel at every stop and check to make sure there are no disabled passengers who require assistance. However in reality a lot of them simply stick there head out the door quickly and don't even bother opening up the panel. And i have even seen four of them who haven't even bothered to look out the door and check (and this was at unstaffed stations).

Some of the OBS are incredibly lazy. For example recently this man approached the the OBS and asked to buy a ticket. The OBS sighed like he was being inconvenienced and said "Sure what ticket do you want." but when the man responded that he wanted a ticket from Berwick to Glynde the OBS said "Oh don't worry about it if your only going one stop. There is no ticket barriers there.". And then on another occasion the OBS was sitting with his feet on the seats opposite him during the journey (and yes he was on duty).

All of the new recruit OBS (and the ex RPI OBS as well) are very poorly trained and clearly haven't been given enough training and guidance to do their jobs properly. I remember one OBS very recently had a ticket machine on him but said he didn't know how to use it as he hadn't been trained to yet.

I remember GTR producing lots of propaganda saying how OBS would be so much more visible and customer focused than Guards. However it is in fact the exact opposite. Most OBS just hide away in the rear cab doing nothing.

I fully 100% support keeping Guards on trains who are safety critical and open and close the doors and despatch the train. However having OBS on board trains is completely and utterly pointless.

 

[yorkie]

GTR are utterly incompetent and they fully deserve their reputation as Britain's worst train company, in almost any way, by a huge margin.

The contrast between GTR OBS and Scotrail's equivalent on their Strathclyde electrics is huge.

The fact that the DfT allow this to continue unabated is shocking. The ORR also have responsibility for ensuring GTR comply with consumer law, and given GTR's constant breaches, their inaction is also very disappointing.

 

[TheEdge]

GTR don't care, the more people who go on to say the OBS's are awful will just be more ammo for GTR within a year to dispose of the whole OBS concept.

The poor buggers have been set up for a fall...

 

[swt class 450]

GTR are utterly incompetent and they fully deserve their reputation as Britain's worst train company, in almost any way, by a huge margin.

The contrast between GTR OBS and Scotrail's equivalent on their Strathclyde electrics is huge.

The fact that the DfT allow this to continue unabated is shocking. The ORR also have responsibility for ensuring GTR comply with consumer law, and given GTR's constant breaches, their inaction is also very disappointing.

I completely agree. I remember thinking Connex was bad. And then Southeastern are still quite bad as well. But i dont think i have ever known of a TOC to be as incompetent and useless as GTR are. The problem is that the DFT really dont seem to care at all and are almost just as useless and incompetent as GTR are. Sadly i dont think i can see it improving.

GTR don't care, the more people who go on to say the OBS's are awful will just be more ammo for GTR within a year to dispose of the whole OBS concept.

The poor buggers have been set up for a fall...

I am sure GTR will indeed get rid of OBS soon. Seeing as they are not even guaranteed to be on board all trains they will probably just quietly get rid of them without really telling people. They almost certainly wont last beyond the end of this current franchise. What they probably want is DOO with no second person onboard (like what happens on their Great Northern and Thameslink branded trains) so that they can save as much money as possible. These OBS are most likely just being used as a trick that GTR is using to try to make it easier to implement DOO.