New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

[HH]

But not enough to run all the 12car routes at 12car in peak

Well when they get back to running all the GTR trains again, some time next millennium, we'll see if they have enough stock.

 

[Robertj21a]

Well when they get back to running all the GTR trains again, some time next millennium, we'll see if they have enough stock.

I hadn't appreciated that so many are still not running. How many units are left unused on a typical day ?

 

[HH]

I hadn't appreciated that so many are still not running. How many units are left unused on a typical day ?

It's cancellations, mostly from driver shortages. Although I'm told today isn't too bad - so far.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

It would be a good start, but short of a litter pick and empty the bins, their scope would be a bit narrow.

But that still makes a big difference to the ambiance of the train. No discarded free papers, coffee cups, sandwich wrappers etc.

I like the way they manage to do this at Waterloo even with the short turnaround times.

 

[TEW]

For suburban services I think the best way to improve cleanliness would be more cleaners based at the opposite end of the line to Waterloo. With the short turnarounds there the cleaners are always facing an uphill battle. The Guildford to Waterloo via Epsom services though for example are cleaned during the 25 minute turnaround at Guildford, and look a lot better for it.

There is an also an issue that stock berthed in certain places doesn't get cleaned overnight, which means they tend to enter service pretty filthy. Waterloo South Sidings was one such location I believe, but the sidings are currently out of use there.

 

[JaJaWa]

First/MTR tipped for South Western win

Source: http://www.passengertransport.co.uk/2017/03/out-now-issue-155-of-passenger-transport/

 

[SpacePhoenix]

If First do win it, will they operate it as a separate company or the two as one big company (with a full rebranding of the SWTs side)?

 

[3141]

If First do win it, will they operate it as a separate company or the two as one big company (with a full rebranding of the SWTs side)?

I assume your question refers to Island Line.

There may have been something about that in the Invitation to Tender, and if there was, then whoever wins will need to have followed whatever that required. Otherwise, it would be up to each bidder, and we'll have to wait for the official announcement to find out.

 

[michael74]

Wouldn't it be nice if they came back to Paignton utilising the paths that that XC give up

 

[HH]

DfT won't be pleased.

Anyone have a copy - there's also an interesting piece by Dean Finch on why NEG sold c2c.

 

[3141]

DfT won't be pleased.

Anyone have a copy - there's also an interesting piece by Dean Finch on why NEG sold c2c.

I wonder if it's true. It was widely believed that Keolis was the winner of East Coast and First for Thameslink, Southern etc. Maybe the actual article will indicate how firm the story is.

 

[HH]

I wonder if it's true. It was widely believed that Keolis was the winner of East Coast and First for Thameslink, Southern etc. Maybe the actual article will indicate how firm the story is.

Those rumours came late IIRC; didn't believe the first and knew the second was wrong. I'd like to see the article too. This competition has dragged on a bit, which may have made it harder to keep the lid on.

 

[RichSwitch]

*If* First do win the South Western franchise, could it be a prelude to GTR being "relieved" of Southern, and Stagecoach selected to run that? As a supplementary, in that case would First want to keep the Desiros, or look to (5 years down the line) replace them with stock of their choosing?

I know the counter question is "why wouldn't they want to keep them?". Whatever, I think it's going to be a surprising couple of months.

 

[Morgsie]

Govia operate the GTR Management Contract

As for the First speculation if First/MTR do gain the South Western Franchise then what about competition rules given First run buses in the Franchise area (they operate buses in Dorset around Dorchester and Weymouth and in Southampton to name example) and operate GWR. Begs the question what happens to GWR?

 

[new2this]

Those rumours came late IIRC; didn't believe the first and knew the second was wrong. I'd like to see the article too. This competition has dragged on a bit, which may have made it harder to keep the lid on.

I think it's officially announced in April sometime, I to would love to know who I will be working for come August and if it's going to be broken up and split or work as one company, would like to see that article if anyone does have it.

 

[Suraggu]

Govia operate the GTR Management Contract

As for the First speculation if First/MTR do gain the South Western Franchise then what about competition rules given First run buses in the Franchise area (they operate buses in Dorset around Dorchester and Weymouth and in Southampton to name example) and operate GWR. Begs the question what happens to GWR?

Stagecoach runs buses in Andover, a joint service from Andover to Salisbury and buses in Basingstoke, so I believe that wont have much impact.

 

[Suraggu]

I wonder if it's true. It was widely believed that Keolis was the winner of East Coast and First for Thameslink, Southern etc. Maybe the actual article will indicate how firm the story is.

Agreed, I remember the newpaper articles over the Eurostar/Keolis bid being tipped to win and boy weas that source wrong.

 

[BestWestern]

Govia operate the GTR Management Contract

As for the First speculation if First/MTR do gain the South Western Franchise then what about competition rules given First run buses in the Franchise area (they operate buses in Dorset around Dorchester and Weymouth and in Southampton to name example) and operate GWR. Begs the question what happens to GWR?

First runs almost the entire bus network in Bath & Bristol, massive monopoly there. Has been for years.

 

[The Ham]

Stagecoach runs buses in Andover, a joint service from Andover to Salisbury and buses in Basingstoke, so I believe that wont have much impact.

...and Fleet, Farnborough, Aldershot, Camberley (they even run a parallel bus service that runs between Camberley and Aldershot) and Farnham

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I assume your question refers to Island Line.

There may have been something about that in the Invitation to Tender, and if there was, then whoever wins will need to have followed whatever that required. Otherwise, it would be up to each bidder, and we'll have to wait for the official announcement to find out.

No, i was thinking of the whole of the current SWTs franchise, with the Island Line included as part of that. The Island Line probably runs in effect as a separate business unit anyway

 

[MartinB1]

I can't access that article, what is the basis for First being tipped to win the franchise?

 

[swt_passenger]

No, i was thinking of the whole of the current SWTs franchise, with the Island Line included as part of that. The Island Line probably runs in effect as a separate business unit anyway

Highly unlikely to combine the franchises - there's no precedent for this elsewhere is there? TSGN being a specific DFT requirement.

But all the years GoVia ran adjacent SN and SE there was never any mention of combining them; and of course the GW franchise will end well before the Southwestern.

 

[87015]

I can't access that article, what is the basis for First being tipped to win the franchise?

To see if the forum goes into complete meltdown over the 442s

 

[Suraggu]

To see if the forum goes into complete meltdown over the 442s

Well strong indications from various parts of the industry have shown one of the bidders are interested in using them for the new franchise.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well strong indications from various parts of the industry have shown one of the bidders are interested in using them for the new franchise.

Hopefully if they do they will give them a proper refurb rather than the present half-job.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

To see if the forum goes into complete meltdown over the 442s

What's the difference in seating capacity of the piggies with their current seating configuration and 3x450 or 2x444?

 

[Suraggu]

What's the difference in seating capacity of the piggies with their current seating configuration and 3x450 or 2x444?

Class 442 S 322 F 50 10 Car S 644 F 100
Class 444 S 299 F 35 10 Car S 598 F 70
Class 450 S 240 F 24 12 Car S 720 F 72

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Class 442 S 322 F 50 10 Car S 644 F 100
Class 444 S 299 F 35 10 Car S 598 F 70
Class 450 S 240 F 24 12 Car S 720 F 72

Looking at them numbers, given that they've got to provide a certain number of seats on the Waterloo-Portsmouth route, I wonder if whoever is considering using them is thinking of using them on the Waterloo-Portsmouth route

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looking at them numbers, given that they've got to provide a certain number of seats on the Waterloo-Portsmouth route, I wonder if whoever is considering using them is thinking of using them on the Waterloo-Portsmouth route

Quite possibly. 450s provide more seats, but such a move would be very popular with those who (quite rightly in my view) see 3+2 seated 450s as unsuitable.

Worth bearing in mind, though, that a compliant accessible bog will need adding, which will reduce capacity a bit.

 

[Suraggu]

Quite possibly. 450s provide more seats, but such a move would be very popular with those who (quite rightly in my view) see 3+2 seated 450s as unsuitable.

Worth bearing in mind, though, that a compliant accessible bog will need adding, which will reduce capacity a bit.

Dont forget when the 707's are fully in service stock gets cascaded to other routes on the SW network.