Arriva Rail North DOO

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Noting the existing rolling stock that Northern currently run, can I ask which of those existing units are seen by the RMT as not meeting their required stipulation in the matter of DOO, which appears to me to be the reason for the current strike action proposed for Monday, 13th March?

Is it legal to strike over the perceived issue of when new units that have only just been ordered but would not actually be delivered for use on the said franchise network until some time in the future?

 

[Bungle965]

Strike action timetable is now on the website.
https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/industrial-action
Sam

 

[northwichcat]

Strike action timetable is now on the website.
https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/industrial-action
Sam

The number of stations getting at least some trains is more than I was expecting. I've noticed Alderley Edge-Crewe, Altrincham-Manchester and Macclesfield-Stoke won't get any services.

 

[Bungle965]

The number of stations getting at least some trains is more than I was expecting. I've noticed Alderley Edge-Crewe, Altrincham-Manchester and Macclesfield-Stoke won't get any services.

Huddersfield stopper does not seem to be running, Selby seems to be deprived of any northern services also. This was just with a quick look.
Sam

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was surprised the Cumbrian Coast was getting a service, but is that just going to be DRS crews on the LHCS? Will the LHCS be running Barrow-Lancaster at all?

 

[Lemmy99uk]

I was surprised the Cumbrian Coast was getting a service, but is that just going to be DRS crews on the LHCS? Will the LHCS be running Barrow-Lancaster at all?

The coast will be all units and there will be no DRS involvement

 

[northwichcat]

Huddersfield stopper does not seem to be running, Selby seems to be deprived of any northern services also. This was just with a quick look.
Sam

The worst ones are where there's no viable alternative to the train. At least the 4 villages between Huddersfield and Stalybridge all have a good bus service.

I notice some timetables for replacement bus services have appeared which I don't think were there before. Also a mention of rail tickets being accepted on Arriva buses and Yorkshire Tiger buses. Although, no mention of ticket acceptance on Metrolink.

 

[northwichcat]

RMT have criticised Northern for spending time working on an emergency timetable instead of being round the table talking to them: http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/northern-rail-bending-the-safety-rules-with-scab-timetable/

Yet more evidence Mick Cash doesn't live in the real world. Most people like as much notice as possible about potential disruption opposed to finding out on the day before it happens.

 

[mtbox]

Little bird tells me that an unknown number of ASLEF drivers may choose not to cross any picket lines, this is entirely legal as it is "protected action".

 

[Andyh82]

RMT have criticised Northern for spending time working on an emergency timetable instead of being round the table talking to them: http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/northern-rail-bending-the-safety-rules-with-scab-timetable/

Yet more evidence Mick Cash doesn't live in the real world. Most people like as much notice as possible about potential disruption opposed to finding out on the day before it happens.

They are still using words like "scab" which most people haven't used since the 1980s

 

[northwichcat]

Little bird tells me that an unknown number of ASLEF drivers may choose not to cross any picket lines, this is entirely legal as it is "protected action".

I thought non-union members were allowed to do that without risk of being dismissed but members of a different union aren't unless they've also had an industrial action ballot.

 

[Pyreneenguy]

They are still using words like "scab" which most people haven't used since the 1980s

It would probably be a good thing if it was heard again more often !

I'm not advocating a return to the 70's but honestly, who is to blame if most jobs are now short-term or zero hour contracts ?

Unions and business can move forward hand-in-hand for both parties benefit ( as is the case in Germany).

 

[craigybagel]

The number of stations getting at least some trains is more than I was expecting. I've noticed Alderley Edge-Crewe, Altrincham-Manchester and Macclesfield-Stoke won't get any services.

Plans are being put in place for ATW to make extra calls at certain stations between Crewe and Manchester. I woudn't be surprised if XC end up stopping at Congleton as well but I've not heard anything from over there. Altrincham - Manchester would be a waste of valuable managers to work trains given they have Metrolink.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

It would probably be a good thing if it was heard again more often !

I'm not advocating a return to the 70's but honestly, who is to blame if most jobs are now short-term or zero hour contracts ?

Unions and business can move forward hand-in-hand for both parties benefit ( as is the case in Germany).

Sorry but I am proud to be a union member but "SCAB" is a disgusting word. Words like that damages causes. Those days should be buried in history

 

[Dr Hoo]

Little bird tells me that an unknown number of ASLEF drivers may choose not to cross any picket lines, this is entirely legal as it is "protected action".

As a regular user of Northern services the impact of industrial action is of obvious interest.

Can the concept of "protected action" be explained, please? I don't immediately recall it being an issue during the Southern dispute (but may have missed it, given the length of that thread).

Thanks

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Plans are being put in place for ATW to make extra calls at certain stations between Crewe and Manchester. I woudn't be surprised if XC end up stopping at Congleton as well but I've not heard anything from over there. Altrincham - Manchester would be a waste of valuable managers to work trains given they have Metrolink.

Even though they are "Arriva" TOC's I would be surprised if they stopped anywhere extra as the Guards on those trains would certainly not like it. Even if it within their contracts the ill will it would create would be totally counter productive.

 

[northwichcat]

Yet More Evidence you do not live in the real world. These Managers and office staff have no experience (apart from maybe a few DTM's) of working trains as a Guard.

So that's what the definition of 'Scab timetable' would be if it was a real term? It's unfortunate the RMT don't have anyone who can write a press release using proper English.

Semaphores at Plumley? Single Lines at Northenden and between Mouldsworth and Mickle Trafford? Old Fashioned Signal Boxes at Northenden, Deansgate Junction, Mobberley, Greenbank and Mickle Trafford) A lovely 21st Century Railway

Yes and all those times waiting for the guard to get to the back of the train to release the doors and the additional time added in to the timetable due to frequent delays due to how long the train is stopped at stations.

I notice how you've ignored the CIS and touch screen TVMs and that resignalling in the Greenbank area is imminent as is platform lengthening so that all stations can take 4 car 156s or equivalents.

 

[mtbox]

I thought non-union members were allowed to do that without risk of being dismissed but members of a different union aren't unless they've also had an industrial action ballot.

No, any employee at the same company where a strike is taking place can refuse to cross a picket line, irrespective of whether they are a member of a union or not.

What is not allowed would be drivers from one company refusing to cross the picket line of drivers from another company, that would be classed as secondary action which you can be dismissed for.

What I don't understand is why Northern do not seem interested in getting round the table with the RMT and getting this sorted out.

 

[northwichcat]

Altrincham - Manchester would be a waste of valuable managers to work trains given they have Metrolink.

Yet Metrolink say Northern haven't made any arrangements with them for ticket acceptance on any services on Monday.

 

[Pyreneenguy]

Sorry but I am proud to be a union member but "SCAB" is a disgusting word. Words like that damages causes. Those days should be buried in history

My words were a little tongue-in-cheek !

Sadly, in the not too distant future, people who thought that they would never need a union, will awaken and find that they , too are expendable and have no one to defend them.

 

[XDM]

Little bird tells me that an unknown number of ASLEF drivers may choose not to cross any picket lines, this is entirely legal as it is "protected action".

I would advise any ASLEF driver who thinks he can have a day at home as a result of the RMT strike to get advice from ASLEF head office. He/she could find themselves being fired & sued for the TOC's losses.The Southern driver who drove the first 12 car Gatwick express as empty stock in both directions was named in the court action Southern took against ASLEF & which Southern won. Southern gracefully agreed not to take legal action against the driver as part of the settlement which cost ASLEF nearly half a million pounds.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

So that's what the definition of 'Scab timetable' would be if it was a real term? It's unfortunate the RMT don't have anyone who can write a press release using proper English.



Yes and all those times waiting for the guard to get to the back of the train to release the doors and the additional time added in to the timetable due to frequent delays due to how long the train is stopped at stations.

I notice how you've ignored the CIS and touch screen TVMs and that resignalling in the Greenbank area is imminent as is platform lengthening so that all stations can take 4 car 156s or equivalents.

Imminent!...Lengthening! when it happens then I will believe it. and most delays actually happen because of poor timing between Stations very rare that a Guard will delay due to tickets. No wink needed because its not funny

 

[mtbox]

I would advise any ASLEF driver who thinks he can have a day at home as a result of the RMT strike to get advice from ASLEF head office. He/she could find themselves being fired & sued for the TOC's losses.The Southern driver who drove the first 12 car Gatwick express as empty stock in both directions was named in the court action Southern took against ASLEF & which Southern won. Southern gracefully agreed not to take legal action against the driver as part of the settlement which cost ASLEF nearly half a million pounds.

No need to contact head office, it's very plainly explained in the front pages of the ASLEF diary for all drivers to see.
It's not about "having a day at home", it's about not crossing the picket line and supporting your fellow workers, which to some people is a big deal, including me.

 

[Moonshot]

Sorry but I am proud to be a union member but "SCAB" is a disgusting word. Words like that damages causes. Those days should be buried in history

Agreed......the Union leadership simply do not represent the average member nowadays.

 

[northwichcat]

and most delays actually happen because of poor timing between Stations

Yet one off-peak train can arrive early at Northwich, Altrincham and Edgley Junction while the next one can be behind by Northwich and doesn't even make up the time by Altrincham.

 

[Robertj21a]

Even though they are "Arriva" TOC's I would be surprised if they stopped anywhere extra as the Guards on those trains would certainly not like it. Even if it within their contracts the ill will it would create would be totally counter productive.

The guards might '.....not like it' but perhaps the company is thinking of the passengers - you know, those people who pay the fares.

 

[craigybagel]

Even though they are "Arriva" TOC's I would be surprised if they stopped anywhere extra as the Guards on those trains would certainly not like it. Even if it within their contracts the ill will it would create would be totally counter productive.

Indeed. However, if the traincrew receive SSO's on the day I'm not sure what they can do to stop it? That might explain why AFAIK it's not been announced as a definite thing yet.

Incidentally, the plans for the aborted Network Rail strike last year that would have seen both the overhead wires being isolated and various signal box closures featured an hourly ATW service between Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly only, calling at Sandbach, Holmes Chapel, Alderley Edge and Wilmslow.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

The guards might '.....not like it' but perhaps the company is thinking of the passengers - you know, those people who pay the fares.

aah yes those people who we as guards keep safe?

 

[Robertj21a]

aah yes those people who we as guards keep safe?

Yes, correct, those passengers who pay the fares...........so that, in turn, you can then be given a rewarding job keeping them safe.

 

[Moonshot]

Yes, correct, those passengers who pay the fares...........so that, in turn, you can then be given a rewarding job keeping them safe.

Not forgetting the drivers, signallers, platform staff , BTP etc....who all play their part in the whole safety picture.