Northern rail fare evasion

[train56]

Stupidly, I was under huge time pressure to get to an exam on time. I usually use a rail card to purchase my ticket and then use my bus pass to continue my route. I was carrying the correct amount of change for the fare with a railcard. However, I had lost my railcard and bus pass which I had not realised before boarding the train. I slept up until the just before the final destination, a few close stops before. This is completely wrong and I understand that, but I was in such a rush and couldn't afford the bus with no spare change I completely panicked and lied. It's totally my fault and they know I lied as they asked how I got through the barriers without a ticket. I said I have lied, told the truth and did not say much else other than fully cooperating and giving them my details. I feel like I am going to write this up with more detail about where I was going and perhaps ask for an out of court settlement when/ if they send me a letter. How likely do you think they will accept this?

What throws a spanner in the works is that I was wrongly accused of fare evasion roughly 5 years ago. I wrote a letter to Northern explaining this and they asked for the train fare as I was changing in a station, went to a cafe and they thought I was attempting to leave via it. They wouldn't let me buy a ticket from them and said I'd have to write a letter. I wrote a letter, they said to just pay the fare remaining. So, as far as I know, Northern sees myself as innocent of this charge. But how will this add up now? I presume it will look really bad in my favour, even though they saw me as innocent? Do I mention this in the letter I write to them for this occurrence, or just not mention it at all?

I was in such a panic and rush that when the investigator asked me if I had been stopped before, I said no. It was only a few hours later I remembered what had happened previously - could this perhaps be seen as lying in a statement?

I would desperately want an out of court settlement if at all possible to avoid a potential criminal record

Thanks in advance

 

[FenMan]

I won't comment on the details that you have provided, but I will highlight this:

I was under huge time pressure to get to an exam on time. .... I slept up until the just before the final destination. I then got off

In my experience, students under huge time pressure before taking an exam don't drift to sleep on a train immediately beforehand, particularly if they leave insufficient time to buy a ticket before travelling.

I'm not being accusatory, however please do bear in mind that if you were to rely on this as a mitigating circumstance, then the version of events that you have stated would cause ears to prick up at any revenue enforcement office of any of the TOCs and would be very unlikely to help you to reach a satisfactory conclusion.

I'll let the experts on here guide you on your next steps.

 

[Mag_seven]

I'm not being accusatory, however please do bear in mind that if you were to rely on this as a mitigating circumstance

There should be no "mitigating circumstances" for short faring.

 

[30907]

As far as the previous incident is concerned, which did not lead to any penalty, I don't think you need worry.

And for the rest, follow this advice to another short-farer and sit tight.http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=143099

 

[FenMan]

There should be no "mitigating circumstances" for short faring.

Quite. I'm suggesting to the OP that their story doesn't hold water and they would be unwise to persist with it, as it's very likely it would make matters worse than they are.

 

[najaB]

Let me summarise the pertinent parts of your post:

I asked for a short fare. This is completely wrong and I understand that. I don't want a criminal record.

That is all Northern care about.

As others have said, the ball is on their side of the net now and you've no option but to wait and see how they play it. Seeing as it's Northern there is every chance they will offer you an £80+fare fixed penalty. If they do then pay it and that'll be the end of the matter.

The only complication is that your name is known to them. However, with it being five years ago and settled without any penalty I'm hopeful that it won't count against you.

 

[train56]

Thanks for the advice from all. I understand how it may seem dodgy that I fell asleep almost immediately, but I got on the train at an unmanned station with no ticket purchasing facilities and had my eyes open for a few minutes but did not spot a conductor, then drifted off. Obviously I won't include it in the letter but I pretty much always drift off immediately in moving vehicles, and especially so today due to a rough nights sleep worrying about the exam.

Looking back at the situation I handled it stupidly, but with a few minutes if that to decide between "short faring" and potentially huge backlash from my university, I took the legally wrong decision. I have written proof I lost my railcard in the sense that I have an email of it being handed in as missing. I shall sit tight, and I shall inform you of how it goes to hopefully deter people from making the same mistake.

 

[train56]

Let me summarise the pertinent parts of your post:
That is all Northern care about.

As others have said, the ball is on their side of the net now and you've no option but to wait and see how they play it. Seeing as it's Northern there is every chance they will offer you an £80+fare fixed penalty. If they do then pay it and that'll be the end of the matter.

The only complication is that your name is known to them. However, with it being five years ago and settled without any penalty I'm hopeful that it won't count against you.

What do you imply by this is all Northern care about.

Also, when it comes to writing a letter, would you recommend reinforcing my last complication? The person who took my details and asked if I had anything like this happen before, I replied no as at the time it slipped my mind as I classed it as some minor mix up back at the time and never thought any more of it since. I wouldn't like it to come off as if I was lying in my statement, if you would call it that.

 

[Controller1701]

I would go even further than Naja and say that Northern will not care about the last sentence in the quote given, they will purely care about you asking for the short fare. Sadly you not wanting a criminal record is not the concern of the railway company

Paul

 

[MikeWh]

Two posts (#7, #8) by the OP have only just been approved. Please read them before commenting further.

 

[najaB]

I would go even further than Naja and say that Northern will not care about the last sentence in the quote given, they will purely care about you asking for the short fare. Sadly you not wanting a criminal record is not the concern of the railway company

Paul

They care about it in as much as the OP knows they have something to lose.

 

[najaB]

What do you imply by this is all Northern care about.

They get tales of woe all the time. Some are genuine, some are not. Either way they don't alter the facts of what happened on the day.

They want to resolve the matter as quickly as possible so sending them a wall of text doesn't help you or them.

 

[train56]

They get tales of woe all the time. Some are genuine, some are not. Either way they don't alter the facts of what happened on the day.

They want to resolve the matter as quickly as possible so sending them a wall of text doesn't help you or them.

I see. I am thinking about wording my letter with a very brief summary basically admitting my actions, followed by an explanation of why I took the actions I did. Would it be worth perhaps getting my university to say I had an exam and include proof that I had lost my rail card? I have an email saying it had been handed in to the student union later that day.

 

[najaB]

Would it be worth perhaps getting my university to say I had an exam and include proof that I had lost my rail card? I have an email saying it had been handed in to the student union later that day.

How, precisely, did the fact you had an exam and had lost your railcard cause you to name a station other than the one at which you boarded? Could you walk me through the logic as if I was a prosecutor looking at your case?

 

[train56]

How, precisely, did the fact you had an exam and had lost your railcard cause you to name a station other than the one at which you boarded? Could you walk me through the logic as if I was a prosecutor looking at your case?

Certainly. I was carrying 10p over the exact fare amount from where I was travelling from, using a railcard. However, as it appeared I had lost this and I am not sure when (did not check before boarding; how stupid). This meant I couldn't afford the full fare and as I was in a rush and didn't want to hand over all money so I couldn't afford the bus (note my railcard, student ID and bus pass are contained in a small debit card-sized wallet). I was cutting it semi-close to the exam start time regardless, and did not want to explain a geniune story to someone for a while, so I then willingly "short fared" due to the fear of missing my exam and the consequences that would have on my degree/from my university.

I noticed all of this before a couple of stops before after awakening (still wouldn't have been able to afford the price and would have missed my exam), and I panicked at this point and thought about getting off the train, partially also because I was desperate for a toilet. Instead I concocted that I would say I got the train from that stop, and continued my journey.

The only part I decided to explain to the inspector is that I considered getting off the train at that stop to use the toilet, but decided to continue on my journey. I didn't explain any of the circumstances as he said to just save it for a letter. He watched me buy the ticket from the incorrect station, said it wasn't possible because of the gates there. I immediately confessed I had short fared, did not state why as I really just wanted to get out of there.

What are peoples opinions on how this would pan out? How likely are Northern Rail to accept an 'out of court agreement'? I'm expecting the worst almost as I'm a glass half empty kind of person. Would a conviction under RoRA (or whatever it is, not the byelaw) become spent after 1 or 5 years? Found conflicting sources of 1 or 5 years.

Thanks all who have commented before and in advance.

 

[Master29]

The best thing you can do now is co operate with Northern in every way possible and admit that you made a complete pigs ear of the whole thing . As NajaB says hopefully what happened a few years back won`t go against you. I doubt however you`ll get a criminal record. Probably the penalty fare and that should end the matter. Put this one down to experience and learn from it.

 

[najaB]

Certainly. I was carrying 10p over...

Thanks. If I was a prosecutor reading that I would have gotten from it:

I didn't have enough money to pay my fare because I'm too disorganised to ensure that I'd got my railcard with me. Instead of being honest with the guard, I decided to lie and cheat Northern out of the correct fare because my time is worth more than your money. I only fessed up because I got caught in the lie.

I hope this doesn't come across as being critical of you, but that is how a prosecutor may look at your story.

What are peoples opinions on how this would pan out? How likely are Northern Rail to accept an 'out of court agreement'? I'm expecting the worst almost as I'm a glass half empty kind of person. Would a conviction under RoRA (or whatever it is, not the byelaw) become spent after 1 or 5 years? Found conflicting sources of 1 or 5 years.

A RoRA prosecution would be spent after 12 months, but honestly I think you'll more likely than not be able to achieve settlement between yourself and Northern.

 

[train56]

Thanks for the comments and yes, it has certainly been a lesson to learn from. I understand how that may be how a prosecutor looks at the case najaB. This wouldn't be how I'd handle it, but the time pressure of the getting to the exam made me panic. I've learnt that my actions were stupid and that I should be more organised, and as such I've found the Northern app to purchase tickets in plenty time before travel. Hopefully Northern might perhaps pass this off as a misjudgment from my behalf and take a penalty instead of trying to convict me once I explain the background and apologise. Only time will tell, and I'll let you know how it pans out in the end.

 

[train56]

To close this off, I was given a £80 fine and the remaining fare on a standard ticket for my journey.

 

[Greenback]

Thanks for letting us know the outcome.