how do fare dodgers get away with it?

[@brandon123]

i honestly dont know how,specially on east coast line from london how? It annoys me.

 

[185143]

The last time I used the East Coast Main Line was from London to Manchester via Leeds in January.

Barriers at Kings Cross were open. No ticket check was conducted between London and Leeds. The TPE guard wandered through between Huddersfield and Manchester.

I had advance tickets but I'd say confidently that most guards on local stoppers after 10:30 on a saturday night generally don't bother. Therefore had i been going onto a local stopper (or even Dewsbury on my TPE) I could have easily travelled from London to a Yorkshire town with no ticket at all.

I don't know if my experience was typical of Saturday evening VTEC travel-certainly I spent Kings Cross-Donny trying to ignore Barnsley fans singing rude songs!

 

[yorkie]

i honestly dont know how,specially on east coast line from london how? It annoys me.

I'm not sure how we're meant to answer that question. Are you asking for examples of witnessing someone successfully dodging ticket inspections? If so, I guess the most common method would be to be in the toilet as the inspector approaches. However ticket inspectors are well aware of this trick and are likely to go back and check the person later, though if they are too busy with other duties that may not always be possible.

Other tricks may include producing fake tickets, especially 'e-tickets', and there have been cases of people being caught doing that, so they may only 'get away with it' a few times (if any) before being caught, which would likely lead to prosecution. We had a few Greater Anglia examples on their Stansted Express route lately (example).

If you are asking how can someone consistently always 'get away with it', the question is flawed as the answer is that they can't. Just view our Disputes section.

 

[Chris M]

I travelled from Bristol Temple Meads to Paddington on Sunday late afternoon/early evening. The barriers at Temple Meads were open, there were no ticket checks en-route (at least in the coach I was in, E iirc) and while the gates at Paddington were operational the attendant* didn't look closely enough at what I was showing them to tell that it was anything other than a correctly-coloured bit of card.

*I always keep my tickets so don't put them through barriers at my destination unless I absolutely have to.

 

[yorkie]

I travelled from Bristol Temple Meads to Paddington on Sunday late afternoon/early evening. The barriers at Temple Meads were open, there were no ticket checks en-route (at least in the coach I was in, E iirc) and while the gates at Paddington were operational the attendant* didn't look closely enough at what I was showing them to tell that it was anything other than a correctly-coloured bit of card.

*I always keep my tickets so don't put them through barriers at my destination unless I absolutely have to.

So in this case, you're saying someone could have successfully fare dodged by showing a fake, or invalid ticket, as the ticket would not have been closely inspected on this occasion. However they would not get away with this very often! So anyone doing this would not be able to do this for very long before they were caught out.

 

[@brandon123]

I wouldn't think it's easy to dodge fares. And I wouldn't agree with it either I've seen people on east coast train from London dodging it and getting off at sheffiled how is it even possible not get catched

 

[yorkie]

I wouldn't think it's easy to dodge fares. And I wouldn't agree with it either I've seen people on east coast train from London dodging it and getting off at sheffiled how is it even possible not get catched

What did they do to successfully dodge?

I am puzzled that you are asking us how they get away with it, if you have seen people get away with it, and you've not given us any information about how you saw them acting. You've obviously seen and/or heard something but we don't know what you witnessed if you don't tell us.

I gave examples above how it is possible not to get caught for individual journeys (I could give more examples if you want, but I am puzzled as to what this would achieve), however there is no way they will always be able to consistently do this, and you can easily see examples of people being caught in our Disputes section.

Did they change at Retford or Doncaster? It's not a direct journey from London King's Cross to Sheffield.

 

[@brandon123]

What did they do to successfully dodge?

I am puzzled that you are asking us how they get away with it, if you have seen people get away with it, and you've not given us any information about how you saw them acting. You've obviously seen and/or heard something but we don't know what you witnessed if you don't tell us.

I gave examples above how it is possible not to get caught for individual journeys (I could give more examples if you want, but I am puzzled as to what this would achieve), however there is no way they will always be able to consistently do this, and you can easily see examples of people being caught in our Disputes section.

Did they change at Retford or Doncaster? It's not a direct journey from London King's Cross to Sheffield.

1 bloke kept wondering to the toliet then coming back again and from London st pancros he dodged it. This will last week on Sunday I'm just puzzled myself because inspectors round 3 times and how didn't they notice him it puzzles me because they saw him go toliet but didn't come looking for him when he came out.

 

[yorkie]

1 bloke kept wondering to the toliet then coming back again and from London st pancros he dodged it. This will last week on Sunday I'm just puzzled myself because inspectors round 3 times and how didn't they notice him it puzzles me because they saw him go toliet but didn't come looking for him when he came out.

This was with EMT in that case. So on 3 occasions inspectors came round and he went to the toilet each time? Did you inform staff of this suspicious behaviour? If so, surely it would have been possible to catch him out. If not, given you are clearly angry about it now, I am puzzled as to why you didn't?

And you've answered your own question, which was also my first guess. But, I'll reiterate: it may have worked this time but it certainly won't always work, and could have severe consequences. So if he keeps doing it, you can be confident he will end up in hot water.

Were the barriers open at St Pancras, or do you think he was using a short-fare ticket?

 

[philthetube]

I travelled Peak morning Preston to London last week, between Preston and Wigan the guard collected three fares in the car I was in from passengers travelling to Wigan and Warrington. They looked shocked to see a guard. I am sure they had no intention of paying at the other end of their journeys, the guard would have no chance of working through the whole 11 cars between Preston and Warrington.

 

[AlterEgo]

I wouldn't think it's easy to dodge fares. And I wouldn't agree with it either I've seen people on east coast train from London dodging it and getting off at sheffiled how is it even possible not get catched

If you've seen people dodge fares then you must know how they did it...so why ask?

 

[Butts]

Board any Abellio Scotrail Rail Replacement Bus Service - Free since last October

Despite scores of journeys on these services I have never witnessed a Ticket Inspection at any stage of the journey.

 

[jopsuk]

do any other TOCs than GA run the text reporting system if you suspect a fare dodger? It does of course rely on them being able to get enforcement to your train before the dodger scarpers

 

[camperdown9]

There must be lots of fare dodging on short sectors.

I live in Chestfield, which is a station between Whistable and Herne Bay. A year or so ago I got the train from Faversham to Chestfield. At Faversham the barriers were open and a large group of young people got on the train. The train was busy and I was standing. The train started to move and the next thing people are leaving their seats and walking all in the same direction. I looked in the opposite direction and there was the ticket inspector. Faversham to Whistable and Whistable to Chestfield and Chestfield to Herne Bay are all fairly short journeys. So I guess all they were doing was trying to stay out of the way of the ticket inspector. Then "I guess" at unmanned stations or stations with no barriers its fairly easy to avoid paying.

 

[matt_world2004]

1 bloke kept wondering to the toliet then coming back again and from London st pancros he dodged it. This will last week on Sunday I'm just puzzled myself because inspectors round 3 times and how didn't they notice him it puzzles me because they saw him go toliet but didn't come looking for him when he came out.

He may have had the craps and had already shown his ticket?

 

[cuccir]

There are some stretches of railway where it is relatively easy to dodge fares. As noted: hiding in toilets, 'doubling up' through barriers, showing out of date/fake tickets, are all quite obvious tactics. More complex fare evasion such as 'doughnutting' or other ways of buying cheaper tickets to get through barriers, misuse of carnet tickets or creating fake season tickets can be even harder to detect.

Indeed, the relatively harsh punishments for fare evasion exist precisely because the rail network operates on a revenue protection model of high penalties for people who fail random ticket checks or meet RPIs, rather than using more routine checks to ensure that fare evasion can never happen.

I think Yorkie's point is sound if we refer to regular, repeated fare evasion: I'm pretty confident that people who do this will get caught. However, on any given journey I think that fare evasion in many parts of the country would be quite easy.

 

[cuccir]

He may have had the craps and had already shown his ticket?

Well quite - this is why it's difficult to judge. On Sunday evening the ticket barriers at Newcastle were broken and not accepting any Advance tickets: several people with clearly valid tickets weren't getting through, but (unusually) no staff were on the barriers.

After waiting in queues for around 5 minutes with roughly 40 people, I exited using my season ticket, which was valid at Newcastle but not for the journey I'd just made, and instructed my wife to double-up behind me. We had valid tickets but I'm sure looked like fare dodgers to anyone watching!

The point being it's difficult if not impossible to ascertain as a punter looking at others whether or not they actually have a valid ticket.

 

[miami]

It's rare to have a ticket check between Crewe and London on virgin off peak. Peak time is more frequent however the guards often have no clue about ticket validity and instead mislead and sometimes slander passengers. The bigger question is how does they get away with this constant institutional lawbreaking?

Once tocs stop acting illegally I'll have more sympathy with them and lost revenue.

 

[GW43125]

I was on a travelcard on Friday, and the lady on the gateline (my ticket wasn't opening it) failed to notice that it was almost three weeks out of date...

(I did have a valid travelcard, just put the wrong one through the barrier)

 

[BanburyBlue]

There's two things that puzzle me...

1. How do people get on trains where stations have barriers. For example, I've never seen the barriers open at London Marylebone, but I've been on trains where people are picked up for not having a ticket when they've boarded at Marylebone.

2. On Crosscountry, occasionally you get an 'all-tickets' check, but normally the train manager comes through and asks for tickets from the previous station. So if you keep quiet and pretend to be asleep, they walk straight past you.

 

[DarloRich]

something very odd about this thread.............

 

[yorkie]

There's two things that puzzle me...

1. How do people get on trains where stations have barriers. For example, I've never seen the barriers open at London Marylebone, but I've been on trains where people are picked up for not having a ticket when they've boarded at Marylebone.

Very easy. Tap in using an Oyster card or Contactless payment card.

Or they may have used a paper ticket that they didn't want to show on the train, such as a single to Wembley.

If questioned 'How did you get through the barriers' there is a possibility they may incriminate themselves when answering.

2. On Crosscountry, occasionally you get an 'all-tickets' check, but normally the train manager comes through and asks for tickets from the previous station. So if you keep quiet and pretend to be asleep, they walk straight past you.

Not always!

 

[Fuzzytop]

I see folks dodging fares on my local Skipton-Leeds route. The assumption is that almost everyone is going to/from Leeds and will be caught out by the barriers there (or by RPI stings at Skipton), and so until very recently the guard would most often just walk through the train asking whether anyone would like to buy a ticket.

Of course this leaves things wide open for passengers who get on and off at the rural stations. More recently when there have been all-ticket inspections, I'd estimate anywhere up to 25-30% of the carriage weren't holding tickets, including those who walked past fully staffed ticket offices. Indeed the only occasion I've seen the guard refuse Off-Peak/Railcard discounts saw the poor fellow get a fair bit of stick, as the passenger protested that paying on the train is "usually allowed" :roll:

 

[pompeyfan]

In a lot of cases, passengers believe it's the train companies responsiblity to sell tickets, not the passengers responsibility to buy.

Sometimes you literally cannot get through the train systematically to pick everyone up. There's also the obvious toilet hiding, doubling up, using a Z1 or short distance season to pop barriers.

There's also a lot of groups travelling around the network intentionally fare evading, and in some cases bragging to railstaff, as if they expect them to confront them in some form. No one gets paid enough to make assult acceptable, and if you've got that mantra and personsality, then by all means crack on.....

 

[@brandon123]

I was just generally wondering how some don't get spotted on the long distances I've seen a few heard them over talking to their mate saying go toliets if u see the inspector.

Also I was just wondering if you've seen anything like this happen before and that how don't the guards notice.

 

[matt_world2004]

From working on buses I can say often tne most suspicous behaviour is innocent /bravadpo wjereas the most innocuous behaviousr is malicious

 

[3141]

When I travel from Overton (Hampshire) to Waterloo, there isn't always a ticket check during the hour-long journey. Sometimes the reason is obvious, if the train is very crowded and the guard would find it difficult to get through.

When tickets are checked, the guard will walk through calling "Tickets from Whitchurch" or "Tickets from Basingstoke". Anyone without a ticket would just keep quiet. It's unlikely any other passenger would tell the guard "This person has just got on and he hasn't shown you his ticket". Guards probably don't want to ask everyone to show their ticket each time they go through the train, because it will take longer, and some passengers will grumble if they have to show it more than once. So you can get away with it. But as yorkie and others have said, not for ever. The next question is, how firmly will a fare-dodger be dealt with when he is detected?

 

[cuccir]

A national smartcard would remove several (though not all) of the opportunities for fare dodging.

 

[xotGD]

I see folks dodging fares on my local Skipton-Leeds route. The assumption is that almost everyone is going to/from Leeds and will be caught out by the barriers there (or by RPI stings at Skipton), and so until very recently the guard would most often just walk through the train asking whether anyone would like to buy a ticket.

Of course this leaves things wide open for passengers who get on and off at the rural stations. More recently when there have been all-ticket inspections, I'd estimate anywhere up to 25-30% of the carriage weren't holding tickets, including those who walked past fully staffed ticket offices. Indeed the only occasion I've seen the guard refuse Off-Peak/Railcard discounts saw the poor fellow get a fair bit of stick, as the passenger protested that paying on the train is "usually allowed" :roll:

Several times I've seen people ask to buy a ticket from Leeds, and the guard hasn't asked how they got through the barriers at Leeds. Presumably they had actually come from somewhere else, and didn't want to buy a ticket for the full journey.

 

[General Zod]

Pre-Oyster and prior to London Overground taking over the route the North London Line (Richmond-Stratford) was veritable free-for-all. Very few ticket offices used to stay open during the day and the many of the TVMs were either broken or vandalized. Couple this with the fact that tickets checks on the line were as rare as hens' teeth then you can understand why fare dodging on the line was rife. On the odd occasion that Inspectors did board a train - as the distance between stations was so short - the carriage used to empty within seconds when the train arrived at a station stop. The NLL reached its nadir when under the auspices of Silverlink.