Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

[Macwomble]

Because the network is presently working at capacity and there’s no spare rolling stock

Fine, but if there's no stock & no capacity......Errr...how?

 

[Blindtraveler]

I was wondering this also!
Its a huge vote of confidence in the 385's working pritty much out the box and freeing up 170s for this and other such improvements. I assume the Glasgow Dundee terminater will simply be extended to finish at Arbroath?


Should the new trains not perform as expected though its going to look bad as improvements woant be delivered. That all said they arnt some species of deziro so should be fine.

 

[JohnR]

New hourly rail service ahead of schedule

http://www.arbroathherald.co.uk/news/business/new-hourly-rail-service-ahead-of-schedule-1-4368540


Good news for the Angus Rail corridor. It's been great to see Monifeith and Broughty Ferry being used as a result of previous service increases, hopefully now they will be used even more. Wonder if more can be done to entice passengers to use Barry Links, Balmossie and Golf Street more? Although the latter may be a bit hard due to the station's close proximity to Carnoustie station.

My first reaction was "Where are they getting the stock from?". Previously the new hourly service was to be operated using 170s made surplus by the HSTs coming - and even then it looked like there would be issues as these were delayed. Nothing about the real fears locally that the new service will mean a reduction in express trains serving Arbroath.

Barry will probably not attract too much extra custom, until there is further westward expansion of Carnoustie. Balmossie could do well, but I wonder if the platform is long enough for 170s? Golf Street is really much too close to Carnoustie to be used as a commuter line - theres no parking for instance. Its possibilities are around access to the Golf Course, but then Carnoustie station seems to be preferred for that.

 

[Altnabreac]

New hourly rail service ahead of schedule

http://www.arbroathherald.co.uk/news/business/new-hourly-rail-service-ahead-of-schedule-1-4368540


Good news for the Angus Rail corridor. It's been great to see Monifeith and Broughty Ferry being used as a result of previous service increases, hopefully now they will be used even more. Wonder if more can be done to entice passengers to use Barry Links, Balmossie and Golf Street more? Although the latter may be a bit hard due to the station's close proximity to Carnoustie station.

Fine, but if there's no stock & no capacity......Errr...how?

I was wondering this also!
Its a huge vote of confidence in the 385's working pritty much out the box and freeing up 170s for this and other such improvements. I assume the Glasgow Dundee terminater will simply be extended to finish at Arbroath?

Should the new trains not perform as expected though its going to look bad as improvements woant be delivered. That all said they arnt some species of deziro so should be fine.

My first reaction was "Where are they getting the stock from?". Previously the new hourly service was to be operated using 170s made surplus by the HSTs coming - and even then it looked like there would be issues as these were delayed. Nothing about the real fears locally that the new service will mean a reduction in express trains serving Arbroath.

Barry will probably not attract too much extra custom, until there is further westward expansion of Carnoustie. Balmossie could do well, but I wonder if the platform is long enough for 170s? Golf Street is really much too close to Carnoustie to be used as a commuter line - theres no parking for instance. Its possibilities are around access to the Golf Course, but then Carnoustie station seems to be preferred for that.

So first things first the news article makes clear there is no guarantee that the new service will start in May 2018, merely that efforts will be made.

There should be 2 sources of spare stock in May 2018, the 385 rollout will free up some 170s from E-G services and the initial HST services will start running in May 2018 on the Edinburgh - Aberdeen corridor. My guess will be they won't want to be reliant on the HST freed up stock but this is a relatively small number of units so the 385 cascade should cover it.

To answer blindtraveler's question it is the intention to extend the Glasgow - Dundee terminator to Arbroath. But the frequency on this service also needs increasing as currently it only runs erratically through the day and uses the same slot out of Queen St as the Glasgow - Inverness services. Getting an additional hourly slot out of Queen St may not be possible until the Stirling / Alloa electrification is complete (due Dec 2018) so don't be surprised if we see something like the existing Dundee terminators extended to Arbroath in May 2018 but the full hourly service only follows in December 2018.

There are also some hours when neither the terminator nor the Inverness service runs (11, 13, 14) so might be relatively easy to run additional services those hours with the current Inverness hours (10, 12, 15, 18) remaining as gaps until a larger recast.

This service will provide hourly services at Monifieth, Broughty Ferry and Invergowrie but there is no indication or commitment that any increase in frequency will occur at Balmossie, Golf Street or Barry Links.

I don't think there will (yet) be a major reduction in fast stopping trains at Arbroath but it is probably inevitable there will be a reduction in calls at Carnoustie of the faster Glasgow services. I'd also expect Arbroath's calls to be more focused in the Edinburgh - Aberdeen services than Glasgow ones.

 

[Blindtraveler]

As the Highland services are not going to be HST worked til later could a year long interim solution be to portion work the Dundee stopper and Inverness service as far as iether Stirling or more practically Perth,?
This would solve the pathing issue at GLQ and unless theres something Iv not thought about the problem goes away from Stirling Northwards?

 

[Clansman]

As the Highland services are not going to be HST worked til later could a year long interim solution be to portion work the Dundee stopper and Inverness service as far as iether Stirling or more practically Perth,?
This would solve the pathing issue at GLQ and unless theres something Iv not thought about the problem goes away from Stirling Northwards?

Would have to split at Stirling, as the platforms which take you to Inverness and Dundee are at completely different ends, in different directions. Not a bad idea to be fair. Could run as a 6 car to Stirling, then the Inverness works as a flyer to Perth, with the rear Dundee portion going all stopper 5 minutes later.

 

[Blindtraveler]

And Stirling has the platform capacity to deal with both the length of train and associated dwell times and another longer stirling flyer or Glasgow in the reverse would be a welcome boost for a flow thats outgrown itself several years ago.

 

[Clansman]

And Stirling has the platform capacity to deal with both the length of train and associated dwell times and another longer stirling flyer or Glasgow in the reverse would be a welcome boost for a flow thats outgrown itself several years ago.

True.

Another advantage is that Inverness services generally get in the way of the more frequent services from Glasgow Queen Street, hence why most services are diverted via Cumbernauld. This issue would be alleviated and would not interfere with the 385s increased frequency from Cumbernauld to Edinburgh.

 

[Altnabreac]

And Stirling has the platform capacity to deal with both the length of train and associated dwell times and another longer stirling flyer or Glasgow in the reverse would be a welcome boost for a flow thats outgrown itself several years ago.

All true but is never going to be implemented for a 6 month interim solution.

 

[Class 170101]

As the Highland services are not going to be HST worked til later could a year long interim solution be to portion work the Dundee stopper and Inverness service as far as iether Stirling or more practically Perth,?
This would solve the pathing issue at GLQ and unless theres something Iv not thought about the problem goes away from Stirling Northwards?

Would have to split at Stirling, as the platforms which take you to Inverness and Dundee are at completely different ends, in different directions. Not a bad idea to be fair. Could run as a 6 car to Stirling, then the Inverness works as a flyer to Perth, with the rear Dundee portion going all stopper 5 minutes later.

Or just run a shuttle between Perth and Dundee connecting out of the Glasgow to Inverness. If I'm not mistaken aren't there some services from Edinburgh terminating at Perth - extend these to and from Dundee?

 

[cf111]

What's the plan for the unrefurbished (Haymarket) 158s? Are they going to be done up or are they heading elsewhere at some point? One has turned up on the 0709 Inverness - Aberdeen and I'd forgotten how awful they are, no heating either

 

[43096]

What's the plan for the unrefurbished (Haymarket) 158s? Are they going to be done up or are they heading elsewhere at some point? One has turned up on the 0709 Inverness - Aberdeen and I'd forgotten how awful they are, no heating either

158726-736/738-741 are to be refurbished to the same standard as the Inverness units. The other 8 units (158782/786/789/867-871) transfer to Northern.

 

[cf111]

158726-736/738-741 are to be refurbished to the same standard as the Inverness units. The other 8 units (158782/786/789/867-871) transfer to Northern.

Cheers. 158733 was my chariot this morning.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I have had quite a few unrefurbed sets of late also. Still nicer IMO than 170s in terms of drafts and reliability

 

[cf111]

I have had quite a few unrefurbed sets of late also. Still nicer IMO than 170s in terms of drafts and reliability

I don't see as much of them up north as I used to. I wouldn't mind them nearly as much if the seat cushions weren't beyond the end of their lives. I hope they get refurbished when they go to Northern!

 

[Blindtraveler]

The 8 from South are my personal favourites out of the Haymarket fleat.

 

[WatcherZero]

Scotrail considering discontinuing their steam operations because they lost a fortune on them last year.

http://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/scotrail-s-vintage-services-run-out-of-steam-1-4383161

 

[Blindtraveler]

I said at the time these were proposed that they would need to be careful how they proced them or they would be unaffordable/poor value for money. I certainly wouldnt have paid what they were asking last season. None the less if theyr happy to back out and break a promise to our tourist obsessed government that they would try and provide services for them then fare enough.

 

[najaB]

Scotrail considering discontinuing their steam operations because they lost a fortune on them last year.

It's in The Scotsman so a mandatory pinch of salt is recommended.

 

[HH]

The original plans were to act as an enabler for third parties to run steam services; should have stuck with that in my opinion. At the end of the day ScotRail is a public transport operative, not a holiday company.

 

[Carntyne]

Or if you look at it another way. ScotRail were asked to operate Steam Services for two years, and have for two years.

 

[47271]

I'm surprised Dalton hasn't phoned Labour and the unions and tried to provoke them into saying that steam services would be really successful if Scotrail was nationalised. [emoji38] Maybe he did and they didn't rise to it.

On the strength of one 20% full Borders steam service we chanced across at Waverley one Sunday evening during the Edinburgh Festival last year, what held back their business was: poor scheduling, feeble marketing, overpriced Standard Class tickets, and insufficient First Class dining capacity.

 

[theironroad]

Whether Scotrail could have done a better job with their steam services, I'll leave to others.

However, Scotrail, subsidised by the Scottish government via Transport Scotland should not be engaged in steam or heritage trains if they're going to run at a significant loss.

Taxpayer money should not be used to subsidise heritage operations unless there is a clear benefit to the taxpayer society generally.

 

[HH]

Whether Scotrail could have done a better job with their steam services, I'll leave to others.

However, Scotrail, subsidised by the Scottish government via Transport Scotland should not be engaged in steam or heritage trains if they're going to run at a significant loss.

Taxpayer money should not be used to subsidise heritage operations unless there is a clear benefit to the taxpayer society generally.

Precisely. Some people at TS seem to have got carried away.

 

[gsnedders]

I can just about justify doing it immediately following the line's opening: it almost certainly helped to generate more news and interest in the line, and quite possibly boosted passenger figures generally. (i.e., it's essentially at that point a marketing expense)

 

[HH]

As a 6 months marketing exercise it would have made some sense. I don't think it required 2 years to see whether it was viable long term.

 

[Clansman]

Precisely. Some people at TS seem to have got carried away.

Luckily it wasn't specified for the whole 10 years of the franchise, then it would really have gotten carried away!

 

[Blindtraveler]

Whether Scotrail could have done a better job with their steam services, I'll leave to others.

However, Scotrail, subsidised by the Scottish government via Transport Scotland should not be engaged in steam or heritage trains if they're going to run at a significant loss.

Taxpayer money should not be used to subsidise heritage operations unless there is a clear benefit to the taxpayer society generally.

And here in lies the problem. The SNP government have got Independence tunnel vision and have had for some time. They tried convince us that we could survive on oil, renewables, whisky and tourists. Well as is now well known the oil industry is in freefall, they have shafted renewables big time and so they end up doing silly things like this as they have to prove to everyone we can as a country afford to lose London money and tourism plays a big part of this and will do until they iether lose power or get a second go at Indiref.

Its just shear desperation and like their other attempt to make money from tourist trains (i.e pricing normals out of sleaper berths and into the seats) will only end in tears. Similar fates will I think awate the sceenic trains when fully launched, passengers need space and a seat first and formost. Only once you fix that do you start vaignitty ideas like reducing capacity to include more tables.

 

[Dryce]

I don't think they worked out how to do the steam excursions.

We had a one-off trip north with Tornado in 2015 over three days. Nice idea in princple but it didn't look well thought out - were passengers supposed to treat it as a landcruise over three days and sort out their own accommodation - or was it a separate series of daytrips. It wasn't IMO well marketed and not well thought out.

We had the Borders railway in 2015 which seems to have been successful, and the fares included Scotrail travel from their network to connect to and drom the charter. So novelty, lots of publicity associated with the line reopening , and connecting fare included.

And then we had the Borders railway excursions in 2016 which IMO didn't get that much publicity and presumably had less novelty, were IST rather more expensive, and didn't include connecting travel. Prices compared with the Jacobite were high, steam in one direction only, and no Harry Potter connection.

I think Scotrail could make this work as a series of scenic excursions based on day trips to various destinations - but not as it was done.

 

[route:oxford]

The original plans were to act as an enabler for third parties to run steam services; should have stuck with that in my opinion. At the end of the day ScotRail is a public transport operative, not a holiday company.

The ideal enabler would have been a turntable and runaround at Tweedbank...

Perhaps if the line ever pushes a bit further along to reach Melrose then Newton St Boswells there'll be the opportunity to utilise part of the old alignments to Kelso and Hawick to creat a turning loop.