London Overground Class 172s

[absolutelymilk]

Does anyone know what is going to happen to the LO 172s once GOBLIN electrification is complete? Chiltern and London Midland are the other operators so I guess it would make sense to send them there?

 

[Mordac]

Apparently ScotRail was sniffing around them, but nothing confirmed as yet. The West Midlands franchise is of course being tendered, which is as early as we'll hear from LM or whoever succeeds them. Chiltern has a history of swiping units from other operators mid franchise, so they might do it too!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

They won't be available till mid-2018 anyway.
Electrification will be complete before then, but the 172s will continue until TfL's new 710s arrive.

 

[sk688]

Wouldnt it make more sense to send them to Chiltern ?

LM 172 have corridor connections , CR 172's dont , so they would be a better fit . Also two car , like all CR 172's , whereas some 172's on LM are 3-car . It also means that can free up some 165's , to go elsewhere like the West Country ( with GWR 165s ) or anywhere which has a shortage

 

[Mordac]

Wouldnt it make more sense to send them to Chiltern ?

LM 172 have corridor connections , CR 172's dont , so they would be a better fit . Also two car , like all CR 172's , whereas some 172's on LM are 3-car . It also means that can free up some 165's , to go elsewhere like the West Country ( with GWR 165s ) or anywhere which has a shortage

Or maybe they could put them on the Aylesbury branch and finally send the bubble cars to Booths where they should have gone long ago!

 

[t_star2001uk]

Wouldnt it make more sense to send them to Chiltern ?

LM 172 have corridor connections , CR 172's dont , so they would be a better fit . Also two car , like all CR 172's , whereas some 172's on LM are 3-car . It also means that can free up some 165's , to go elsewhere like the West Country ( with GWR 165s ) or anywhere which has a shortage

LOROL 172s are a bit of an oddball unit so to speak. If they came across to Chiltern they would need to have works attention to make them suitable.

1: Take out the metro style seat layout and replace with suburban.
2: Fit a toilet and all of the associated plumbing and wiring.
3: Repaint in to Chiltern colours.
4: Upgrade to 100 mph running.

Now, even if there was a remote possiblity of them coming to Chiltern, why would it free up 165's for the west country when we have our own capacity issues....

just my thoughts.....

 

[sk688]

LOROL 172s are a bit of an oddball unit so to speak. If they came across to Chiltern they would need to have works attention to make them suitable.

Now, even if there was a remote possiblity of them coming to Chiltern, why would it free up 165's for the west country when we have our own capacity issues....

Fair enough . Maybe instead CR could get the 172s ( depending on cost of works ) , and keep the 165s . Maybe make all Oxford trains 168/172 and concentrate 165s on Gerrards Cross/ Aylesbury stopping services , with a bit of a refurb , as they are getting quite dated and threadbare now , despite the new paint job

I never knew about CR capacity issues , despite commuting CR from Ruislip from 2007-13 . Now ive moved , so I use LM

 

[rebmcr]

LOROL 172s are a bit of an oddball unit so to speak. If they came across to Chiltern they would need to have works attention to make them suitable.

1: Take out the metro style seat layout and replace with suburban.
2: Fit a toilet and all of the associated plumbing and wiring.
3: Repaint in to Chiltern colours.
4: Upgrade to 100 mph running.

Now, even if there was a remote possiblity of them coming to Chiltern, why would it free up 165's for the west country when we have our own capacity issues....

just my thoughts.....

So, pretty much, conversion from 172/0 to 172/1.

 

[t_star2001uk]

Fair enough . Maybe instead CR could get the 172s ( depending on cost of works ) , and keep the 165s . Maybe make all Oxford trains 168/172 and concentrate 165s on Gerrards Cross/ Aylesbury stopping services , with a bit of a refurb , as they are getting quite dated and threadbare now , despite the new paint job

I never knew about CR capacity issues , despite commuting CR from Ruislip from 2007-13 . Now ive moved , so I use LM

Quite a few of our peak services could do with extra capacity

 

[Prestige15]

Would be ideal if they were sent to LM Bedford - Bletchley and Coventry - Nuneaton branches But also apparently Northern is also looking around on them

 

[t_star2001uk]

So, pretty much, conversion from 172/0 to 172/1.

Thats the one...

 

[NotATrainspott]

The Overground 172s were designed to be easy to cascade away, so they have relatively standard interiors and can be fitted with toilets.

If somehow some of them could end up on the Greenford branch it would be wonderful for everyone. No need to change the interiors, the line can just be rebranded as part of the Overground network (even if still run by GWR or Chiltern) and everyone's happy.

 

[jhy44]

ATW would seem the obvious choice for use on the Valley lines. Overcrowded trains which will soon have to be retired with no realistic plan for electrification to take place anytime soon. These could take over the Rhymey Line for example

 

[colchesterken]

No no no dont send the bubbles to Booths
Pass them on to preservation at scrap value, they are getting rare enough to be of interest to the younger generation
We have missed out on preserving far too much first generation stuff..eg EPB,s.A/c electric stock only one VEP, and the SUB and 306 are being left to rot
todays rubbish is tomorrows history

 

[headshot119]

No no no dont send the bubbles to Booths
Pass them on to preservation at scrap value, they are getting rare enough to be of interest to the younger generation
We have missed out on preserving far too much first generation stuff..eg EPB,s.A/c electric stock only one VEP, and the SUB and 306 are being left to rot
todays rubbish is tomorrows history

Plenty of Bubbles already in preservation, 121032 made it into preservation after Chiltern sold it so do we really need more?

 

[Clansman]

This was already discussed on a thread a few months ago, but never the less;

Chiltern & London Overground's 172s should be transferred to London Midland, who inturn exchange as many 170s over to Chiltern to be converted to 168s.

Works out both ways and could see maintenance costs drop by each TOC having a majority class of DMU rather than just a mix and match, and allows Chiltern greater flexibility as 172s can't run on LU lines given they cannot be fitted with tripcocks.

 

[158722]

This was already discussed on a thread a few months ago, but never the less;

Chiltern & London Overground's 172s should be transferred to London Midland, who inturn exchange as many 170s over to Chiltern to be converted to 168s.

Works out both ways and could see maintenance costs drop by each TOC having a majority class of DMU.

And it creates greater flexibility for Chiltern, given that the 172s cannot be fitted with the tripcock kit required for running on the shared LU lines.

 

[Clansman]

And it creates greater flexibility for Chiltern, given that the 172s cannot be fitted with the tripcock kit required for running on the shared LU lines.

Indeed so.

Given that the 172/0 fleet only consists of 12 units, and that only the 8 from London Overground are due to go off-lease, it seems that London Midland and Chiltern are the only rational suggestions for in the longer term.

 

[FordFocus]

Or maybe they could put them on the Aylesbury branch and finally send the bubble cars to Booths where they should have gone long ago!

They are going in May 17.

 

[158722]

Indeed so.

Given that the 172/0 fleet only consists of 12 units, and that only the 8 from London Overground are due to go off-lease, it seems that London Midland and Chiltern are the only rational suggestions for in the longer term.

Those 12 172s to LM along with the reduction of their DMU requirements resulting from the Chase line electrification (4 3-car sets of 153+170/5 & 170/6) and expected net increase of 153s resulting from the swap with GWR/NOR of 150s/153s, would seem to allow LM to dispense with all 17 of their 170/5s. Just not quite enough to free up the 170/6s though.

 

[Class172]

Those 12 172s to LM along with the reduction of their DMU requirements resulting from the Chase line electrification (4 3-car sets of 153+170/5 & 170/6) and expected net increase of 153s resulting from the swap with GWR/NOR of 150s/153s, would seem to allow LM to dispense with all 17 of their 170/5s. Just not quite enough to free up the 170/6s though.

Any stock that is released by the Chase Line electrification is marked for use by the Hereford and Shrewsbury services.

Also, as far as I'm aware the three 150 units will be exchanged with 6 153s, so there is no net gain of stock there.

 

[Mordac]

They are going in May 17.

With that and the final six piggies demise, today is a good day for railway news!

No no no dont send the bubbles to Booths
Pass them on to preservation at scrap value, they are getting rare enough to be of interest to the younger generation
We have missed out on preserving far too much first generation stuff..eg EPB,s.A/c electric stock only one VEP, and the SUB and 306 are being left to rot
todays rubbish is tomorrows history

In all seriousness, I do agree with them being preserved. I even think a few Pacers should be preserved. Just get them out revenue service please, they really have no place on it nowadays.

But other than 442401, kill the piggies, otherwise we'll be loaded with threads about their possible uses forever.

 

[MK Tom]

Would be ideal if they were sent to LM Bedford - Bletchley and Coventry - Nuneaton branches But also apparently Northern is also looking around on them

Won't fit in the platforms/signals at Marston Vale line stations. The old problem and the reason I strongly suspect we'll get 230s when the LM 150s go.

 

[swt class 450]

They could go to South West Trains for use on the Salisbury to Romsey loop services?

 

[59CosG95]

They could go to South West Trains for use on the Salisbury to Romsey loop services?

Last thing SWT needs is a microfleet. They had the 170/3s initially, but sold them to TPE in exchange for 158s; since all the Salisbury-based DMUs were in a common operational pool, it wasn't rare to see them on the Waterloo-Exeter services in multiple. That was a nightmare for catering staff and their trolleys! As a result, the 170s went and 158s came in to bolster the 159s.

 

[43096]

Last thing SWT needs is a microfleet. They had the 170/3s initially, but sold them to TPE in exchange for 158s; since all the Salisbury-based DMUs were in a common operational pool, it wasn't rare to see them on the Waterloo-Exeter services in multiple. That was a nightmare for catering staff and their trolleys! As a result, the 170s went and 158s came in to bolster the 159s.

Sold?

 

[Rhydgaled]

Chiltern & London Overground's 172s should be transferred to London Midland, who inturn exchange as many 170s over to Chiltern to be converted to 168s.

Works out both ways and could see maintenance costs drop by each TOC having a majority class of DMU rather than just a mix and match, and allows Chiltern greater flexibility as 172s can't run on LU lines given they cannot be fitted with tripcocks.

LM don't need to give Chiltern any 170s, instead Chiltern could have the 5x 170s from ScotRail that Southern no longer want, to replace the four 172s and the single 121 diagram.

One question is when are they released from ScotRail, December 2018? If so, that gives six months to fit toilets to the LO 172s (due off lease in May 2018?) to provide a fleet of 12x 172s ready to cascade somewhere together. Coupled with the 12x 170s from Greater Anglia (in 2019?), that's a fleet of 24 Turbostars for somewhere. LM will have at most 17 153s (perhaps as few as 14, how many are they taking from FirstGWR?) to replace though, so 24 is too many unless they need quite a lot of extra capacity.

They are going in May 17.

If the 121s are going that soon, what's replacing them?

 

[NSEFAN]

If the 121s are going that soon, what's replacing them?

Anything spare at the moment, I believe. The 121s are being replaced because of difficulty in sourcing parts, rather than there being sufficient stock to replace them.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Anything spare at the moment, I believe. The 121s are being replaced because of difficulty in sourcing parts, rather than there being sufficient stock to replace them.

Resourced from within Chiltern's existing fleet then; no cascade?

 

[NSEFAN]

Resourced from within Chiltern's existing fleet then; no cascade?

For now, yes.