MML Electrification: progress updates

[snowball]

Press release

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/feeds...ced-as-kettering-to-corby-upgrade-progresses/

A huge 800 tonne crane will help replace a railway bridge on the route between Kettering and Corby as the Railway Upgrade Plan continues in Northamptonshire.

Barfords Bridge which crosses the A6003 Rockingham Road near Geddington will be replaced as part of the project to install a second track and electrify the line between Kettering and Corby, part of the Railway Upgrade Plan.

To allow the work to be completed, the A6003 will be closed for two weekends to allow the reconstruction to take place. Signposted diversion routes will be available between:

Thursday 16 February at 9pm and Monday 20 February at 6am
Thursday 23 February at 9pm and Monday 27 February at 6am

The bridge is being replaced so that it can support an increased number of train services which the installation of the new, second track between Kettering and Corby will enable.

Nicola Coxall, project manager at Network Rail, said: “This bridge replacement is a key part of the upgrade of the line between Kettering and Corby. The road closures are essential to ensure the work is carried out safely and in the shortest amount of time, and we thank motorists for their patience and understanding while we carry out this important piece of construction.”

Buses will replace trains on East Midlands services on Saturday, 18 February, Sunday, 19 February, Saturday, 25 February and Sunday, 26 February.
Trains will run as normal on Friday, 17 February and Friday, 24 February.

Passengers are being advised to check eastmidlandstrains.co.uk before they travel and to allow extra time for their journeys.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Not quite true that - Luton and Luton Airport Parkway between them have a half-hourly EMT service.

If you read my post again, you will see I wrote about Luton Airport Parkway, and then switched to Luton.

Luton services - with odd exceptions on weekdays - only serve Corby, as I wrote. So that is pretty useless for travelling north of Kettering on the 'main line', most especially because the following expresses do not stop to pick up at Kettering. I think that is a reasonable opinion.

LAP is another station. It may be only a mile to the south, but many people don't want to faff around changing trains, especially doubling back. It 'feels wrong' psychologically.

I can well imagine that if the ticket numbers are checked that journeys north from Luton on EMT services took a significant hit when the Corby services were introduced.

IMO, at least one or two fast Sheffields should stop pick up only in the morning and set down only in the evening peak - similar to the old Cl 45 timetables of the 60s and 70s. Most particularly since when I've been on trains (ok, only 2-3 times in the modern era) the expresses have in any case been checked, I assume by a tardy semi-fast just preceding it.

 

[A0]

If you read my post again, you will see I wrote about Luton Airport Parkway, and then switched to Luton.

Luton services - with odd exceptions on weekdays - only serve Corby, as I wrote. So that is pretty useless for travelling north of Kettering on the 'main line', most especially because the following expresses do not stop to pick up at Kettering. I think that is a reasonable opinion.

LAP is another station. It may be only a mile to the south, but many people don't want to faff around changing trains, especially doubling back. It 'feels wrong' psychologically.

I can well imagine that if the ticket numbers are checked that journeys north from Luton on EMT services took a significant hit when the Corby services were introduced.

IMO, at least one or two fast Sheffields should stop pick up only in the morning and set down only in the evening peak - similar to the old Cl 45 timetables of the 60s and 70s. Most particularly since when I've been on trains (ok, only 2-3 times in the modern era) the expresses have in any case been checked, I assume by a tardy semi-fast just preceding it.

The problem is that it's not possible to justify more frequent EMT services to both stations. The usage level is almost the same - and for many people in and around Luton, Airport Parkway is more convenient with better road connections and better parking.

I'd almost suggest that they focus all EMT serices on Luton Airport Parkway and have an easement which allows people to travel north from Airport Parkway on Luton tickets.

I'm guessing the decision to stop the Nottingham's at Airport Parkway is to cater for passengers wanting to get to / from Luton Airport from places further afield.

 

[muddythefish]

It was the Derby stopper (xx00 from STP) which was replaced, theres only ever been 1 Notttingham stopper and 1 fast as it is now. Which makes it worse as many people from Northants travel to Derby.

Big loss in my view. Two stoppers north per hour at Luton / Bedford. Wboro/ Kettering/ Harborough alternating Derby / Nottingham was a good service and well used to judge from passengers numbers at Wellingborough.

 

[edwin_m]

Big loss in my view. Two stoppers north per hour at Luton / Bedford. Wboro/ Kettering/ Harborough alternating Derby / Nottingham was a good service and well used to judge from passengers numbers at Wellingborough.

What actually threw this was the decision to accelerate the Derby stopper and run it through to Sheffield. Its former stops south of Leicester went to the Corby or in the case of Market Harborough to the Nottingham "fast".

 

[70014IronDuke]

The problem is that it's not possible to justify more frequent EMT services to both stations. The usage level is almost the same - and for many people in and around Luton, Airport Parkway is more convenient with better road connections and better parking.

Yes, totally agree. But (in answer to the o/p to this subthread) it just makes any thought of stopping EMT trains at St Albans even more impossible.

I'd almost suggest that they focus all EMT serices on Luton Airport Parkway and have an easement which allows people to travel north from Airport Parkway on Luton tickets.

I suppose it might come to that. you say passenger numbers at LAP and Luton are roughly equal? (I assume you are talking about EMT here?) I'm surprised, TBH. I would have thought Luton would be well down on LAP in terms of travel to and from the north.

 

[A0]

Yes, totally agree. But (in answer to the o/p to this subthread) it just makes any thought of stopping EMT trains at St Albans even more impossible.

I suppose it might come to that. you say passenger numbers at LAP and Luton are roughly equal? (I assume you are talking about EMT here?) I'm surprised, TBH. I would have thought Luton would be well down on LAP in terms of travel to and from the north.

I agree on St Albans - and don't advocate EMT services should stop there.

The reality is each line out of London can sustain one 'outer London' railhead that gets some - not all - Intercity services - in the case of the ECML it's Stevenage, in the case of the MML it's Luton and in the case of the WCML it's Watford Junction.

On the passenger usage - no, it's overall figures

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luton_railway_station 3.6m in 2015/16
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luton_Airport_Parkway_railway_station 3.2m in 2015/16

 

[A0]

What actually threw this was the decision to accelerate the Derby stopper and run it through to Sheffield. Its former stops south of Leicester went to the Corby or in the case of Market Harborough to the Nottingham "fast".

Which given EMT's prime focus on the MML is to provide an Inter City standard of service to Leicester, Derby, Sheffield and Nottingham is understandable, despite the loss of connectivity at Kettering and Wellingborough.

I'm not sure I agree with the sentiment posted by someone else that it was a "big" loss. The passenger figures at Wellingborough and Kettering have continued to grow. And if you go to either station between 7am and 9am you find FAR more people waiting for London services than you do the northbound services.

 

[Verulamius]

This document http://www.thameslinkrailway.com/download/12639.9/timetable-consultation-top-6-mml/ , published as part of the Thameslink 2018 timetable consultation, indicates numbers of passengers from stations south of Bedford and top 6 destinations. The journeys to the East Midlands form part of others for Bedford and the Luton stations.

 

[muddythefish]

What actually threw this was the decision to accelerate the Derby stopper and run it through to Sheffield. Its former stops south of Leicester went to the Corby or in the case of Market Harborough to the Nottingham "fast".

Yes, a big loss for those who used these services from Wellingborough / Kettering northwards especially out of peak hours when of course there were FAR more people heading both north and south compared to the peak as someone else mentioned.

 

[asylumxl]

This document http://www.thameslinkrailway.com/download/12639.9/timetable-consultation-top-6-mml/ , published as part of the Thameslink 2018 timetable consultation, indicates numbers of passengers from stations south of Bedford and top 6 destinations. The journeys to the East Midlands form part of others for Bedford and the Luton stations.

That would seemingly indicate that there is in fact more demand for journeys from both stations to stations in the East Midlands than any other non-London stations. That seems to contradict what other posters are saying.

Having said that, I actually use the EMT services from LTN (not LAP) and LUT. There are usually a reasonable number of people waiting for the train, even off-peak.

 

[asylumxl]

Much my experience of someone travelling into Luton Airport (incidentally a c==p airport at the moment with rebuilding and an outrageous £3 drop off charge for road users) , who laughed at the idea of using the hourly train and hired a car instead for less money.

Wait, would you rather it be a crap airport or be rebuilt to improve it?

 

[A0]

That would seemingly indicate that there is in fact more demand for journeys from both stations to stations in the East Midlands than any other non-London stations. That seems to contradict what other posters are saying.

Having said that, I actually use the EMT services from LTN (not LAP) and LUT. There are usually a reasonable number of people waiting for the train, even off-peak.

Well, I suppose if you count Wellingborough, Kettering, Corby, Market Harborough, Leicester, Loughborough, Long Eaton, Nottingham all together as one, when they are 8 stations, there's every chance they'll outweigh other stations.

For Luton Airport they actually say "Much of other is via North London Line
and East Midlands etc" - which is aiming pretty high and wide.

And with Bedford - they include the Bedford Bletchley line figures in the 'other'.....

 

[Mordac]

Barrow on Soar bridge reopening 27/03: http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...nce-opening-date-for-barrow-upon-soar-bridge#

 

[asylumxl]

Well, I suppose if you count Wellingborough, Kettering, Corby, Market Harborough, Leicester, Loughborough, Long Eaton, Nottingham all together as one, when they are 8 stations, there's every chance they'll outweigh other stations.

For Luton Airport they actually say "Much of other is via North London Line
and East Midlands etc" - which is aiming pretty high and wide.

And with Bedford - they include the Bedford Bletchley line figures in the 'other'.....

Well they are all others aren't they, they're not journeys that can be made using Thameslink?

The reality is, while journeys further north than Bedford have probably fallen since the introduction of Corby services and speeding up of other services, it's not as if there's basically nobody boarding the EMT services as some posters make out.

If one thinks that LTN and LUT don't warrant EMT services, the same must be true for many satellite towns roughly 30 miles from London that also see intercity services stopping.

 

[A0]

Well they are all others aren't they, they're not journeys that can be made using Thameslink?

The reality is, while journeys further north than Bedford have probably fallen since the introduction of Corby services and speeding up of other services, it's not as if there's basically nobody boarding the EMT services as some posters make out.

If one thinks that LTN and LUT don't warrant EMT services, the same must be true for many satellite towns roughly 30 miles from London that also see intercity services stopping.

I don't think anyone's saying Luton doesn't warrant EMT services, but by the same token I don't think it warrants additional EMT services.

Stevenage as a comparable example gets roughly 2 VTEC services an hour, one to Leeds and one other (destination varies). In most respects Stevenage and Luton are pretty comparable.

Personally, I'd make all Luton stops at Airport Parkway - which supports longer-distance travellers looking for connections to the airport or the M1 better than Luton.

Longer term, if Corby has a half-hourly stopper of Kettering, Wellingborough, Bedford, Luton, London, then I'd also be calling into question any other EMT stoppers at Bedford.

Logically some Leicester and beyond services could stop at just Luton Aiport Parkway and Kettering - connections for Bedford and Weillingborough to be managed at Kettering.

 

[asylumxl]

I don't think anyone's saying Luton doesn't warrant EMT services, but by the same token I don't think it warrants additional EMT services.

Stevenage as a comparable example gets roughly 2 VTEC services an hour, one to Leeds and one other (destination varies). In most respects Stevenage and Luton are pretty comparable.

Personally, I'd make all Luton stops at Airport Parkway - which supports longer-distance travellers looking for connections to the airport or the M1 better than Luton.

Longer term, if Corby has a half-hourly stopper of Kettering, Wellingborough, Bedford, Luton, London, then I'd also be calling into question any other EMT stoppers at Bedford.

Logically some Leicester and beyond services could stop at just Luton Aiport Parkway and Kettering - connections for Bedford and Weillingborough to be managed at Kettering.

I don't think you have done so but I would others have certainly implied it. I've seen people on this forum suggesting they should call at St Albans, which is utterly preposterous. Stevenage is certainly comparable and was the example I was going to use, as I have regular experience of both.

I'm not sure I'd agree with stopping all services at Luton Airport Parkway though. The station is of little use to anyone but airport passengers/coach passengers (from the airport itself) and people from villages such as East Hyde and Batford.

Luton station, despite it's dilapidated state due to continued under-investment, is more of a destination than Parkway. This is even more true now that the "interchange" has been finished and more buses diverted that way. The vast majority of businesses are based in or near the town centre.

Personally, I'd happily see Corby transferred to Thameslink and have alternating stops at Luton Airport Parkway and Luton with a connection timed to allow swift transfer between each.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Personally, I'd happily see Corby transferred to Thameslink and have alternating stops at Luton Airport Parkway and Luton with a connection timed to allow swift transfer between each.

Would you extend Thameslink core services up to Corby? Even the fastest TL services are ~15 mins slower from St Pancras to Bedford than EMT, so I reckon you've got 3 options:
1- Try to sell the electrification and consequent major deceleration to the provinces, resulting in howls of protest from Disgusted of East Northants, who's also perhaps losing most/all of their Sheffield/Nottingham services which doesn't seem terribly customer-centric
2- Accelerate the Thameslink services by reducing stops south of Bedford and resulting in howls of protest from Disgusted of St Albans, who still doesn't get the compensation of a twice hourly service to Sheffield/Nottingham
3- Try and stuff the extra Corby services through the Thameslink core, resulting in howls of protest from *everybody*

 

[asylumxl]

Would you extend Thameslink core services up to Corby? Even the fastest TL services are ~15 mins slower from St Pancras to Bedford than EMT, so I reckon you've got 3 options:
1- Try to sell the electrification and consequent major deceleration to the provinces, resulting in howls of protest from Disgusted of East Northants, who's also perhaps losing most/all of their Sheffield/Nottingham services which doesn't seem terribly customer-centric
2- Accelerate the Thameslink services by reducing stops south of Bedford and resulting in howls of protest from Disgusted of St Albans, who still doesn't get the compensation of a twice hourly service to Sheffield/Nottingham [emoji38]
3- Try and stuff the extra Corby services through the Thameslink core, resulting in howls of protest from *everybody*

Or they could just operate to the high level as they do now using 110-125mph EMU stock once the wires south of Bedford are cleared for it? By Thameslink I meant the operator (a sub brand of GTR).

 

[Camden]

Extending Thameslink services to Corby giving them two trains an hour would likely be seen as an improvement, even if the service was lower, especially if able to change for more frequent northbound services and faster services at Kettering.

 

[A0]

Would you extend Thameslink core services up to Corby? Even the fastest TL services are ~15 mins slower from St Pancras to Bedford than EMT, so I reckon you've got 3 options:
1- Try to sell the electrification and consequent major deceleration to the provinces, resulting in howls of protest from Disgusted of East Northants, who's also perhaps losing most/all of their Sheffield/Nottingham services which doesn't seem terribly customer-centric
2- Accelerate the Thameslink services by reducing stops south of Bedford and resulting in howls of protest from Disgusted of St Albans, who still doesn't get the compensation of a twice hourly service to Sheffield/Nottingham
3- Try and stuff the extra Corby services through the Thameslink core, resulting in howls of protest from *everybody*

The reason for the fastest TL services being 15 mins slower than EMT is due to the stopping pattern.

From STP, I don't recall seeing any TL service which wasn't St Albans as first stop as a minimum, they then stop Harpenden, both Luton's and at the very least Flitwick before Bedford. Assume 2 mins impact per stop (probably conservative) and you can account for 10 minutes easily.

 

[A0]

Extending Thameslink services to Corby giving them two trains an hour would likely be seen as an improvement, even if the service was lower, especially if able to change for more frequent northbound services and faster services at Kettering.

Not if you add at least 15 mins to the journey time from Corby, Kettering and Wellingborough to London as a result.

Which extending any current TL service to Bedford onward to Corby, would achieve.

And if you made them fast south of Luton, then you'd make the northbound evening services far busier because people at Farringdon or St P TL would let the stoppers go and wait for the Luton / Bedford only ones.

You only need to look at the current 17.30 to Nottingham to get the idea. That goes first stop Bedford - that train arrives in Bedford full and standing. It stops at Bedford for about 3 mins, where it offloads about 50% of its passengers. It's then about 2/3rds full leaving to head north.

So Wellingborough and Kettering users - who pay *far* more for a season ticket than Bedford - suffer from a crowded journey.

Your suggestion means either a much slower journey or a much more crowded journey. Or worst of all, both.

 

[Class 170101]

Bedford will remain (or become more) important as a stop especially once East West Rail Opens.

Insofar as Luton is concerned that will depend on how big Luton Airport and its surrounding catchment become.

I would be tempted to concentrate services at Luton (Central) station however I can understand the advantages of the Parkway Station.

So working on 6tph I would could consider:-

xx:00 Fast Sheffield unchanged
xx:04 'slow' Nottingham calling at Bedford then all to Nottingham
xx:08 Corby calling Luton, Bedford and all to Corby
xx:30 Fast Nottingham calling at Leicester and Nottingham
xx:34 Manchester calling at Bedford, Wellingborough, Kettering, Leicester, EM Parkway, Derby, Chesterfield, Stockport, Manchester Piccadilly
xx:38 Sheffield calling Bedford then all to Derby, Chesterfield and Sheffield. Connecting Shuttle to Corby off this service at Kettering.

 

[Bald Rick]

Bedford will remain (or become more) important as a stop especially once East West Rail Opens.

Insofar as Luton is concerned that will depend on how big Luton Airport and its surrounding catchment become.

I would be tempted to concentrate services at Luton (Central) station however I can understand the advantages of the Parkway Station.

So working on 6tph I would could consider:-

xx:00 Fast Sheffield unchanged
xx:04 'slow' Nottingham calling at Bedford then all to Nottingham
xx:08 Corby calling Luton, Bedford and all to Corby
xx:30 Fast Nottingham calling at Leicester and Nottingham
xx:34 Manchester calling at Bedford, Wellingborough, Kettering, Leicester, EM Parkway, Derby, Chesterfield, Stockport, Manchester Piccadilly
xx:38 Sheffield calling Bedford then all to Derby, Chesterfield and Sheffield. Connecting Shuttle to Corby off this service at Kettering.

Where do the fast Thameslink trains go in this timetable?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Where do the fast Thameslink trains go in this timetable?

Quite - not on the slow lines entirely , for sure.....

 

[Class 170101]

Have a look at 17:30 to 18:29. Looks like 6tph there for EMT and a collection of Thameslink trains. Whilst perhaps different from what I suggested above seems like 6tph is possible on MML with some thought.

 

[Bald Rick]

Have a look at 17:30 to 18:29. Looks like 6tph there for EMT and a collection of Thameslink trains. Whilst perhaps different from what I suggested above seems like 6tph is possible on MML with some thought.

With some thought, yes. And assuming the current Thameslink service spec. Which changes comprehensively next year, with additional pm peak fast trains.

If it was as easy as you suggest, it would have been done.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Have a look at 17:30 to 18:29. Looks like 6tph there for EMT and a collection of Thameslink trains. Whilst perhaps different from what I suggested above seems like 6tph is possible on MML with some thought.

Some thought yes - ad retiming great swathes of services across the whole of Southern England and inruding onto the Great Northern route.

EMT trains need / ought to fit into the "presented" fast TLK slots north of the core area , not the other way round. Logically treating St Pancras as launch pad for these services , as well as an arrival point is critical.

"GTR" services equate to about 20% of the UK trains run daily. Just abt more important than (say) a modest idea of sending EMT trans to Manchester in the 6th path.

 

[MarkRedon]

Bedford will remain (or become more) important as a stop especially once East West Rail Opens.

Insofar as Luton is concerned that will depend on how big Luton Airport and its surrounding catchment become.

I would be tempted to concentrate services at Luton (Central) station however I can understand the advantages of the Parkway Station.

Yes, but - rather long-term: which Parkway? East West Rail will probably be routed south of Bedford. There may therefore be a Bedford Parkway station, presumably two-level. It might eventually be the optimum stop for northbound connections on the MML?

 

[Bald Rick]

Yes, but - rather long-term: which Parkway? East West Rail will probably be routed south of Bedford. There may therefore be a Bedford Parkway station, presumably two-level. It might eventually be the optimum stop for northbound connections on the MML?

Two incorrect assumptions there.