What constitutes trespass on the railway?

[daikilo]

Nope.

The closest to that would be areas designated as CTAs, for which a penalty fare is the immediate remedy.

Jake, that is why I used the word "technically" in the sense that if a person does not have a ticket in a CTA then he/she is considered as not having the right to be there i.e. trespassing. The difference is that rather than send the person to court they get an automatic fine.

For others, I do not believe that, provided a person has a valid ticket, being between the yellow line and the platform edge when a stopped train with open doors is not present constitutes trespassing, although it may be an offence for other reasons such as endangering.

 

[MonsooN]

If you use a disabled toilet to avoid paying for the toilet facilities are you commiting tresspass on the railway?

A friend of mine is a taxi driver and he and the other drivers at his station are allowed to use the disabled toilets there and all of them have keys.

 

[jon0844]

A friend of mine is a taxi driver and he and the other drivers at his station are allowed to use the disabled toilets there and all of them have keys.

Surely everyone is allowed to use an accessible toilet? They're not reserved only for certain people.

Just as anyone could buy a Radar key from Amazon if they so wanted and wouldn't be committing an offence. The only punishment perhaps being people tutting and starting.

 

[D365]

"four minutes before the train was due".
At 60mph that's four miles away.

What kind of logic is that? There's non-stop trains which will obviously not show up on departures from that station.

 

[matt_world2004]

A friend of mine is a taxi driver and he and the other drivers at his station are allowed to use the disabled toilets there and all of them have keys.

I have been told off for using GwR facilities.

 

[matt_world2004]

I'm don't know if this was meant to be a joke or not. However I'll assume not.

How would you enter the disabled toilet? Would:
The door be left open accidentally?
The door be left open on purpose?
Someone else, other than an authorised member of staff, let you in?
You force your way in?

I once used a disabled loo where the door was open. I then closed it after I'd finished and a member of staff with another passenger beside said that's the only working loo, which is why the door had been left open. No problem though as I had a key so I reopened it.

So overall I suspect they could not do you for trespass but they could ask you to leave a station and if you refused, other laws might apply.

If you had a RADAR key then you wouldn't be trespassing at all or what would be the point of disabled loo. Again they could ask you to leave the station if they had good reason.



Trains hitting people can cause injuries to drivers of said trains.

Not a joke, I have had issues with toilets, at Hayes and Harlington and Slough when I have used them - I work on buses, so often station toilets are the only facilities we can use. so we carry a radar key because often the standard toilets are closed/out of order etc, etc.

 

[AlterEgo]

I have been told off for using GwR facilities.

Nobody should tell anyone off for using a universally accessible toilet.

In any case, nobody can tell if you have a disability by your appearance.

 

[D60]

I was accused of tresspassing at Sheffield Midland once because apparently I`d passed an unlite sign that said passengers must not cross the line and use the footbridge, I was just walking up and down the platform waiting for my train and the platform didnt have any lines on it, the sign I presume was reffering to the railway line, but it was difficult to see in the dark anyway and I didnt leave the platform and was nowhere near the ramp??

Sheffield Midland... Does anyone remember back in the late '70s, the wooden enclosure situated at one end of one of the platforms, designated as 'Trainspotters Pen'..?! As one-off visitors to the station, we were gobsmacked (not sure the phrase 'gobsmacked' was known to us back then!)... having not seen anything like it anwhere else... and thinking it an affront to our 'right' as 14yr-olds to wander around on railway stations writing down train numbers..! Which we proceeded to do for an hour or so until our pens (the writing kind!) packed up due to it being an exceptionally cold day in December..!
And then catching the bus (2p fares!!) to Brinsworth Three Magpies, for a shed-bunk of Tinsley.. where we freely wandered around the depot completely unhindered as was the norm in those days.. among lines of Peaks and class 20s... Despite our Locoshed books saying we needed to 'seek permission' beforehand, which we never did... Other than on the rare occasion a 'shed foreman' approached us...
(It was a different world.....)

 

[weastebusdepot]

Nobody should tell anyone off for using a universally accessible toilet.

In any case, nobody can tell if you have a disability by your appearance.

True, and there are many stations where the accessible toilet is the only facility available. In those cases, it is also often the only facility available to contractors and visitors.

While anyone can buy a NKS key, it's perhaps best that it isn't that well publicised. Otherwise the accessible toilets will end up getting trashed on Friday & Saturday nights by drunken partygoers much like the other ones.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It's somewhat sad that all those pictures of children with their legs dangling over a parapet watching the trains go by, were technically trespassing and would now be subject to legal redress. It wasn't too long ago that passengers crossing on the planks at the end of the platform was tolerated, or at least a blind eye turned to.

I suspect it's about a legal culture that has to explain every aspect of an incident, not just the manifest reasons. At its most egregious, someone nicking hardware from the railway could claim the railways were acting improperly by continuing to run trains while they did so, and someone would be prepared to defend that position legally.

The "planks at the end of the platform" in some places were (are?) the only way of getting to the other platform. In other places, they were/are the only step-free way of crossing. Some of these crossings in the latter case were only supposed to be used with the authority and/or supervision of staff.

 

[SA_900]

When I was out with my instructor, we spotted a guy from the cab who was technically trespassing. He was pruning the hedge at the end of his garden which backed onto the railway. Unfortunately he'd got a bit carried away and had lifted his ladder over the fence so it was resting on railway property. He had his back to the tracks and was facing towards the garden.

My instructor decided to pretend he hadn't seen him on the basis he wasn't doing anything dangerous, was a good 30 feet from the tracks and if anything was saving Network Rail a job. Someone else took a different view! We went back down the same way about an hour later and were brought to a stand at the previous station and delayed for 15 minutes while a MOM and a couple of police officers were on the tracks looking for him.

It shows how seriously it is taken, even where well intentioned. It caused a great deal of inconvenience to staff and hundreds of passengers and if the guy had been caught he'd have been arrested and quite likely prosecuted. Absolutely not worth it!

Utter stupidity. How many people missed important meetings/engagements because of one officious buffoon?

 

[Dolive22]

RAILWAY TRESPASS & ASSOCIATED OFFENCES

Several summary offences deal with this as follows:

Section 16 Railway Regulation Act 1840:

It is an offence to wilfully trespass on any railway or premises connected therewith and to refuse to leave when asked to do so by any officer or agent of the railway company. 'Wilfulness' can be proved by the refusal to leave. The offence is punishable by a fine of up to £1000 and up to 51 weeks imprisonment if the fine is unpaid.

Section 23 Regulation of the Railways Act 1868:

This prohibits passage upon or across any railway line except for the purpose of crossing the line at an authorised point. A person commits an offence by so doing after having once received warning by the railway company, their servants or agents, to desist. Up to £200 fine.

Section 55 British Transport Commission Act 1949:

This penalises trespass on railway lines or property in dangerous proximity to such lines or electrical apparatus. Evidence is required of a notice exhibited at the station nearest the place of offence providing a clear public warning not to trespass on a railway. Punishable by a fine.

55(1) any person, who shall trespass upon any of the lines of railway or sidings or in any tunnel or upon any railway embankment cutting or similar work now or hereafter belonging or leased to or worked by any of the Boards or who shall trespass upon any other lands of any of the Boards in dangerous proximity to any such lines of railway or other works or to any electrical apparatus used for or in connection with the working of the railway shall be guilty of an offence.

This is all exactly right, and in fact more accurate than some of the textbooks, one of which calls s. 55 s. 5 throughout.

It's somewhat sad that all those pictures of children with their legs dangling over a parapet watching the trains go by, were technically trespassing and would now be subject to legal redress. It wasn't too long ago that passengers crossing on the planks at the end of the platform was tolerated, or at least a blind eye turned to.

I suspect it's about a legal culture that has to explain every aspect of an incident, not just the manifest reasons. At its most egregious, someone nicking hardware from the railway could claim the railways were acting improperly by continuing to run trains while they did so, and someone would be prepared to defend that position legally.

The RAIB and their predecessors have sought to understand the causes of accidents, although they do seem to have become more thorough in recent decades.

I think the reason why we no longer allow as many dangerous things is that we are less willing to tolerate people dying or being seriously injured. If it is actually because of our legal culture, then as someone whose TC to train as a solicitor was confirmed last week, I'm more than happy to take the blame for fewer deaths.

 

[Holly]

When I was out with my instructor, we spotted a guy from the cab who was technically trespassing. He was pruning the hedge at the end of his garden which backed onto the railway. Unfortunately he'd got a bit carried away and had lifted his ladder over the fence so it was resting on railway property. He had his back to the tracks and was facing towards the garden.
...

This sounds like "not trespass" according to the cites given by EM2 above.
For it to be trespass, as defined above, required one or more of:
1. Refusal to leave when asked to.
2. Passage along or across the tracks.
or
3. Dangerous proximity to line or to electrical gear.

And I can't see how the hedge trimmer was doing any of those.

Those three criteria seem pretty sensible to me. Mind you the hedge trimmer might have done something illegal with the hedge trimmings. Theft if taking them, littering if leaving them!

 

[Griff]

Railway trespassing would constitute when someone goes beyond the 'passengers must not cross this point' sign at the end of the platform when they're not permitted to do so, being very close to Network Rail's property like overhead wires or cuttings etc and refusing to leave when being asked to.

 

[silverfoxcc]

Re D60 comments
When my lad was into number taking,,we went past Hither Green Depot one sunday night, to enquire if we could have a quick look around where the 33'swere stbled. IIRC it was a very long walk from the entrance to to Yard office and had to pass all the said locos.
Once there i politely requested permission, which was refused, and asked/told to leave ,by 'THAT way' which took us past the remaining 33's. which No 1 son duly noted
Hmm trespassing or not? or bending the rules by the manager?

 

[Stigy]

Jake, that is why I used the word "technically" in the sense that if a person does not have a ticket in a CTA then he/she is considered as not having the right to be there i.e. trespassing. The difference is that rather than send the person to court they get an automatic fine.

For others, I do not believe that, provided a person has a valid ticket, being between the yellow line and the platform edge when a stopped train with open doors is not present constitutes trespassing, although it may be an offence for other reasons such as endangering.

CTA or not, if somebody has no reason to be on railway property they are committing an offence under byelaw 13. Trespass being discussed here is a criminal matter and relates to railway lines specifically, not simply any railway property. To enforce 'civil' trespass as you describe, the operator would require a court order, unless there are aggravating factors. This is why travellers are a nighthtmare to move on.