East Midlands Trains General Discussion

[John_158]

I have opened this thread to save other threads going greatly off topic!

One of the things I would like to discuss about EMT is East Croft Depot Nottingham.

Recently there has been a great deal of failures of there Class 158s and yet the majority of the failures I believe are with the ex CT Units (Green) and yet the condition of the two 158s on loan From SWT seem to been in a right mess internally and mechanically.

I just can not understand why this depot is treating its trains so badly as around 12months ago they sent all the units in turn down to SWT for reliability exams which paid off but now 12months on SWTs work seems to have gone down the pan.

Having trains in such a state cannot be good for reputation I mean I know they are investing 10milion in the refurbishment but unless they treat there trains better then it is going to be a complete waste of time despite all the excellent workmanship that Delta Rail has done.

There was more to this thread but the computer decided to play up as I got to the spell checking.

 

[xc170]

I dont personally have any issues with EMT except the fact they have bee so slow at re-painting and refurbishing there trains, LM and xc have done most of there trains but EMT have only repainted there 222s, 156 and 1 or 2 153s and 158s

Adam

 

[John_158]

I don't personally have any issues with EMT except the fact they have bee so slow at re-painting and refurbishing there trains, LM and xc have done most of there trains but EMT have only repainted there 222s, 156 and 1 or 2 153s and 158s

Adam

The 158s are being re-painted on refurb, I don't really have any problem with EMT as a Company just East Croft Depot Don't Seem to know how to Clean there trains inside or out side as they only seem to Put The Green ones through the wash.

But yet it is the internal condition that is appalling of the ex CT Green 158s all they need is some new padding on the seats and those carpets either scrubbed clean or ripped out and some basic carpet put down at least To be tidy them up a little until they go for refurb.

The failure of 158846 would probably mean that the 17.52 From Liverpool tonight will be short formed for which is a result of poor maintenance for which i see no excuse what so ever.

 

[87015]

So where did they get the staff from when Central opened Eastcroft. If they didn't transfer any in from Tyseley or somewhere else that has a history of sprinter maintenance then that might account for them having lower reliability than you expect. What facilities does it have it aswell, can it do the lot, seem to remember in CT days everything cycled through Tyseley which I presume has now finished.

Although its more likely the 158s are just plain knackered and have been for years...

 

[John_158]

.

Although its more likely the 158s are just plain knackered and have been for years...[/QUOTE]

I think think the 158s are stillpretty good but need some TLC butyet people seem to slag off the alphaline ones 158863/4/5/6 but yet theese sem to be one of the most reliable tyeps that they have.

The 158s i would say are not realy suitable fro such long distances of over 300 or so miles and using 180s as from Liverpool to Nottingham and 158s Between Nottingham and Norwich would give the 158s more chance of being relilble and the 180s would get nice Long Distances of speeds upto 100MPH on most streaches of the route Between Liverpool and Nottingham.

 

[Donny Dave]

John, for whatever reason, you seem fixated on the fact that in your eyes, Eastcroft depot is not doing a good job.

Rather than spam forums with post after post all saying the same thing, why don't you writr to EMT with your concerns?

You are far more likely to get an answer by writing to them, because AFAIK, there isn't that many EMT employees who are a member of the forum.

 

[devon_metro]

.

Although its more likely the 158s are just plain knackered and have been for years...

I think think the 158s are stillpretty good but need some TLC butyet people seem to slag off the alphaline ones 158863/4/5/6 but yet theese sem to be one of the most reliable tyeps that they have.

The 158s i would say are not realy suitable fro such long distances of over 300 or so miles and using 180s as from Liverpool to Nottingham and 158s Between Nottingham and Norwich would give the 158s more chance of being relilble and the 180s would get nice Long Distances of speeds upto 100MPH on most streaches of the route Between Liverpool and Nottingham.

180s aren't suitable for the route either, they'd fail even more so you'd only moan to hell about them. Besides they wouldnt be cleared past Peterborough due to weight issues I would presume.

 

[Pumbaa]

But yet it is the internal condition that is appalling of the ex CT Green 158s all they need is some new padding on the seats and those carpets either scrubbed clean or ripped out and some basic carpet put down at least To be tidy them up a little until they go for refurb.

There is no point - because you say THEY ARE ABOUT TO GO FOR REFURB! Joisus!

 

[Failed Unit]

I have opened this thread to save other threads going greatly off topic!

One of the things I would like to discuss about EMT is East Croft Depot Nottingham.

Recently there has been a great deal of failures of there Class 158s and yet the majority of the failures I believe are with the ex CT Units (Green) and yet the condition of the two 158s on loan From SWT seem to been in a right mess internally and mechanically.

Do you have figures to prove this?

I just can not understand why this depot is treating its trains so badly as around 12months ago they sent all the units in turn down to SWT for reliability exams which paid off but now 12months on SWTs work seems to have gone down the pan.

Having trains in such a state cannot be good for reputation I mean I know they are investing 10milion in the refurbishment but unless they treat there trains better then it is going to be a complete waste of time despite all the excellent workmanship that Delta Rail has done.

There was more to this thread but the computer decided to play up as I got to the spell checking.

The most reliable fleets in the UK are the ones where the units make it to a depot every night. GNER (now NEEC) and SWT are a good example of this. EMT have a lot of units based out overnight at Lincoln, Boston and Crewe with limit access to depot facilities. Even the units at Norwich are only there for fuel and basic work. As a result it can be many days before they get TLC from Nottingham. Nottingham is more a service point than a heavy depot, this work needs to be done at Derby or Neville Hill. Remember stagecoach also owns Sailsbury, they are sharing best practice with this depot. However considering the state some of these units were in it will take a while to get all the units turned around. I don't think Nottingham is any worse than any other depot in the UK.

The failure of 158846 would probably mean that the 17.52 From Liverpool tonight will be short formed for which is a result of poor maintenance for which i see no excuse what so ever.

You know this for a fact? Can you prove this? Sometimes things breakdown as things wear out, it happens to cars, buses, trains, washing machines. It is not always poor maintenance. As for your 1752 from Liverpool can get the 1755 Northern service instead! No one is forcing you on the 1752. What would you rather have a cancelled train or a short formed train.

I dont personally have any issues with EMT except the fact they have bee so slow at re-painting and refurbishing there trains, LM and xc have done most of there trains but EMT have only repainted there 222s, 156 and 1 or 2 153s and 158s

Adam

This is down to the number of units they have, they need nearly all the units they have to run the daily diagrams. From a passenger point of view I would be pretty annoyed to have a train cancelled or short formed just for the sake of having a unit painted, as it adds no value to me. Refurbishment I will ultimately get a better journey. Also if they re-paint units without doing anything in side it can damage the brand, the 156's and 222's were in good condition internally the 156's had only just complete c6 exams.

 

[P156KWJ]

do we really need another EMT thread? Just a thought...

 

[90019]

do we really need another EMT thread? Just a thought...

Do we really need another thread for him to complain about EMT in?

 

[MCR247]

Do we really need another thread for him to complain about EMT in?

Exactly! Because everyone said stop hijacking thread, he makes one to complain in himself.

PS: Title to misleading. Should be: John 158 complains about EMT!

 

[Mintona]

Dirty on the outside? Doesn't matter, as long as you don't touch it, you can't see it from the inside, so it isn't a problem.

Dirty on the inside? I think you will find that that is far more to do with passengers and vandals than lack of cleaning. I am guessing you mean newspapers and empty food packets. This is because lazy passengers can't be bothered to take their litter to a bin or off the train. Not EMT's fault.

 

[Failed Unit]

I have feeling of De-Ja-Vu here, on another forum I frequent there was a 158863's Liverpool - Norwich moaning thread....

 

[WillPS]

I've noticed that all their connect trains are coming out immaculate from the deep steam clean they've recently had. Okay, so the fabric is faded, but as an interim fix pending refurbishment (which will happen as per their franchise) it's pretty bloody good!

 

[P156KWJ]

I've noticed that all their connect trains are coming out immaculate from the deep steam clean they've recently had. Okay, so the fabric is faded, but as an interim fix pending refurbishment (which will happen as per their franchise) it's pretty bloody good!

went on 156414 last weekend and was impressed with it's refresh actually

 

[tbtc]

.
The 158s i would say are not realy suitable fro such long distances of over 300 or so miles and using 180s as from Liverpool to Nottingham and 158s Between Nottingham and Norwich would give the 158s more chance of being relilble and the 180s would get nice Long Distances of speeds upto 100MPH on most streaches of the route Between Liverpool and Nottingham.

You're really not helping yourself here...

The route from Liverpool to Norwich may be a long one (in terms of distance and time), but it's not an intercity one - the line speed is well below 100 mph for most of it.

If you want to make it intercity then you'd need to have it run "express" and omit small places like Widnes etc

 

[WillPS]

Well, the CrossCountry routes were once operated by InterCity 125 HSTs... and Norwich - Liverpool is pretty similar to those routes in all but axle load requirements on the Norwich end of the journey.

 

[martyn29]

Trains are 15 late already today... not EMT's fault (freight train!)

 

[John_158]

Just wondering why most of the Journeys from Norwich to Liverpool seem to get held back for up to 4minutes at Liverpool South Park Way even though they arrive about two minutes prior to departure time i.e...

20.05 From Widnes arrives at 20.13 due to depart at 20.15 is held back by the signal until 20.19.

They also seem to get held back when on the approach to LSPW this seems to happen on almost every journey.

 

[ukrob]

Just wondering why most of the Journeys from Norwich to Liverpool seem to get held back for up to 4minutes at Liverpool South Park Way even though they arrive about two minutes prior to departure time i.e...

20.05 From Widnes arrives at 20.13 due to depart at 20.15 is held back by the signal until 20.19.

They also seem to get held back when on the approach to LSPW this seems to happen on almost every journey.

As pure speculation and guesswork I would say bad pathing with Merseyrail EMU's frequently crossing the line directly infront. Does the EMT service arrive at Lime Street on time? Is there much recovery time? Some Northern stoppers are allowed 9 minutes between Edge Hill and Lime Street.

Personally I blame depot workers in Nottingham...

 

[tbtc]

Well, the CrossCountry routes were once operated by InterCity 125 HSTs... and Norwich - Liverpool is pretty similar to those routes in all but axle load requirements on the Norwich end of the journey.

A lot of the ex 125 routes that HSTs worked on were "main lines" (the ECML/ WCML/ Midland Main Line/ Great Western lines) and they only stopped long distance.

Whilst the infamous Norwich - Liverpool service is long distance, it has a lot of local stops like Widnes, Alfreton etc (plus places like Dore and Dronfield at certain times). Maybe if it just stoppped Liverpool - Manchester - Sheffield - Nottingham etc...

 

[WillPS]

A lot of the ex 125 routes that HSTs worked on were "main lines" (the ECML/ WCML/ Midland Main Line/ Great Western lines) and they only stopped long distance.

Whilst the infamous Norwich - Liverpool service is long distance, it has a lot of local stops like Widnes, Alfreton etc (plus places like Dore and Dronfield at certain times). Maybe if it just stoppped Liverpool - Manchester - Sheffield - Nottingham etc...

True. It'd be good to see these cut out really.

I'm sure Tim Shovellor has gone on record somewhere to say something to the effect of he wants the service to be considered as InterCity.

 

[John_158]

Just take a look at where the 14.52 From Liverpool to Norwich Stops at:-

Liverpool Lime Street Dep 14:52
Liverpool South Parkway 15:02
Widnes 15:10
Warrington Central 15:18
Manchester Oxford Road 15:39
Manchester Piccadilly 15:41
Stockport 15:53
Sheffield 16:35
Dronfield 16:48
Chesterfield 16:56
Alfreton 17:06
Nottingham 17:31
Radcliffe (Nottinghamshire) 17:44
Bingham 17:49
Aslockton 17:54
Bottesford 18:00
Grantham 18:13 Peterborough 18:48
March 19:05
Ely 19:24
Thetford 19:49
Norwich (Your station) 20:22

I agree about reducing the Stops but yet you couldn't really omit Widnes or Warrington Central as both are very busy stops and Towns as the idea of the service is to Connect towns and cities.

Stopping at Liverpool South Parkway has slowed the service down incredibly as after it had crawled through LSPW when the service did not stop there they used to speed up to 90mph until just before Edge Hill Curve now they only travel up to about 60/70mph up to Edge Hill Curve.

 

[Failed Unit]

Just take a look at where the 14.52 From Liverpool to Norwich Stops at:-

Liverpool Lime Street Dep 14:52
Liverpool South Parkway 15:02
Widnes 15:10
Warrington Central 15:18
Manchester Oxford Road 15:39
Manchester Piccadilly 15:41
Stockport 15:53
Sheffield 16:35
Dronfield 16:48
Chesterfield 16:56
Alfreton 17:06
Nottingham 17:31
Radcliffe (Nottinghamshire) 17:44
Bingham 17:49
Aslockton 17:54
Bottesford 18:00
Grantham 18:13 Peterborough 18:48
March 19:05
Ely 19:24
Thetford 19:49
Norwich (Your station) 20:22

I agree about reducing the Stops but yet you couldn't really omit Widnes or Warrington Central as both are very busy stops and Towns as the idea of the service is to Connect towns and cities.

Stopping at Liverpool South Parkway has slowed the service down incredibly as after it had crawled through LSPW when the service did not stop there they used to speed up to 90mph until just before Edge Hill Curve now they only travel up to about 60/70mph up to Edge Hill Curve.

Is your viewpoint because you use Widnes a lot when travelling from Liverpool by anychance? Or do you really use the service to travel say from Widnes - Nottingham and no a lot of demand for it? Whenever I have travelled on the service from Nottingham - Liverpool very few people have got off at Widnes, and those that did joined in Manchester.

IMO Both Liverpool South Parkway and Widnes should be pick up only, although I would be interesting to know how many passengers from Widnes travel beyond Manchester, if it is not many then you could make the argument that the stop is not need as Northern caters for the towns needs.

Dronfield should be removed, as should the stops between Nottingham and Grantham. I know the stops on this service are to cater for peak passengers out of Nottingham and it isn't as if a 153 could be used to provide Grantham with another service as they don't have any spare so I guess they will need to stay. Not sure about Alferton either, it is well used but not sure about the number of passengers that travel from Alferton beyond Sheffield or Nottingham.

 

[John_158]

I do:-

17.52 Liverpool Lime St - Widnes (Shopping) Daily

19.10 Or 20.09 Widnes - Warrington Central (Work)

Sometimes I even have a bash during the day and probably use the service on a Saturday when on one of my trips out.

Northern’s Service takes along time during the week to get to Warrington and if I caught there service I would have no time to get anything to eat for my tea and I would be Hungry all night or end up eating many packets of crisp.

It is a Good service even better when a 156 or 153 turns up and does provide a valuable fast service between Liverpool-Widnes –Warrington-Manchester-Sheffield & Nottingham.


A few other people who work at the same place as me and live in Widnes and rely on it too so its just a pity EMTs management treated us like muck, The Drivers & Guards at EMT are all pretty Good and very help full as I experienced on my Lincolnshire trip.

Question :-

Can anyone tell me who provides the Staff for the Buffet Service on EMTs HSTs and Whom provides the Staff for the Shops on the Meridans.

 

[Mintona]

"I am all for the train missing out stops to inconvenience other people as long as it doesn't miss out my stops to inconvenience me"

 

[me123]

"I am all for the train missing out stops to inconvenience other people as long as it doesn't miss out my stops to inconvenience me"

You've hit the nail on the head, Mintona. This is what everyone wants; a fast service with fewer stops as long as they all call at stations that are convenient for the individual. If the rail network could do this and still operate an effective train system, this would probably be their Holy Grail.

But it's impossible. If you do reduce stops, you leave people with less of a service and they're going to moan. EMT can't win this one. However, I would (perhaps controversially) run Nottingham-Sheffield with just a single stop at Chesterfield (if even that). Intermediate stations are serviced by Northern's service and connections should be possible at Sheffield. And, as already said, Nottingham-Grantham non-stop, provided connections are available for intermediate stations.

 

[Pumbaa]

its just a pity EMTs management treated us like muck, The Drivers & Guards at EMT are all pretty Good and very help full as I experienced on my Lincolnshire trip.

Stop saying this - people have told you time and time over the management are doing the best they can - it's not their fault they have barely enough rolling stock. I am sick to the front teeth of you repeating this one-sided and if I'm honest, unjustified statement.

 

[90019]

its just a pity EMTs management treated us like muck

I would like to see you try and do a better job with a rolling stock shortage.

Please, for the sake of everyone's sanity, shut up. EMT are doing the best they can with what they've got. You should be thankful you have a rail service that you are able to use.
Honestly, what do you think whining to people on a rail forum is going to achieve? Honestly, i want to know what you seem to think will happen.
If you want EMT to know what you think, whine at EMT, rather than just p*ssing off people who have nothing at all to do with them and have no influence over what happens.