New ticket gates in North of England

[Geeves]

I beg leave to remind the Honourable Member for Rochdale that there are no barriers at Ardwick (a city centre station) and there are no plans to do so in the near future

Okay got me there but I did chuckle. I tip my hat to any fare evaders boarding at Ardwick!

I was working up at Bolton today and the grand switch on for the gates is the 12th of December. The side gate at platform 4 gets locked at the end of December apparently when works start on platform 5, woop!

 

[SodTheDrummer]

Has the freeloaders exit on platform 4 been gated ?

Couple board at Moses Gate. At Bolton the woman heads towards the stairs. "No !" says the man "If we got out this way you don't have to pay".

Wouldn't have thought so - I don't use P4 much, plus Geeves just pretty much answered that one!

 

[pjm0512]

I don't really know where to post but I got my first 'new' style Northern ticket yesterday.

Unnecessary large and annoying as I can't put it in my ticket wallet as it's impossible to fold it down to a size where all info needed can be seen.

 

[Geeves]

The new tickets are due to get considerably smaller come an update in January that will hopefully sort out some StarMobile bugs... and there are ALOT! :roll:

They still dont work the barriers yet though. Genius idea.

 

[james2trains]

The new tickets are due to get considerably smaller come an update in January that will hopefully sort out some StarMobile bugs... and there are ALOT! :roll:

They still dont work the barriers yet though. Genius idea.

Northern say that 'soon' they will work the barriers at Leeds, though they currently work the barriers at Huddersfield.

 

[Darren R]

Slight change of plan in regards to the barriers and installation list. Blackburn barriers will now be installed at Salford Central instead in the not too distant future.

Last week posters appeared at Blackburn warning that ticket barriers are about to be installed at the station. Additionally there was recently an article in the Lancashire Telegraph which also mentions the possibility of moving the ticket office back down to street level.

Masterplan drawn up to regenerate Blackburn’s historic railway station

A MASTERPLAN is being drawn up to regenerate Blackburn’s historic railway station – as a scheme for ticket gates is revealed.

Under a new retail and commercial study, led by Community Rail Lancashire (CRL), the chance to re-use redundant parts of the 170-year-old site will be explored.

Rail operators Northern has confirmed it is looking to install ticket barriers, to control access to platforms.

But the possibility of relocating the booking office, situated between platforms one and two, to its original location in the subway has been floated by CRL.

Richard Watts, CRL’s rail development manager, said: “We will be concentrating on the redundant space within the station building and how we can make better use of it.”

Northern is hoping to install extra train crew facilities at Blackburn, to create a network ‘hub’ there, leaving various old offices and storerooms within the station unused. Work is also now ongoing to transform the old Transit Lounge into another branch of Subway, through an investment by brother and sister Awais and Nighat Anwar, who run the existing kiosk there.

Bosses at CRL said they will be working with Blackburn with Darwen Council, Network Rail and Northern on the study. Travellers from Clitheroe and Blackburn are also being advised that tickets gates are being introduced soon at Bolton, en-route to Manchester Victoria and Salford Crescent, which already have them.

(Full article here: http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/blackburn/14923254.Masterplan_drawn_up_to_regenerate_Blackburn___s_historic_railway_station/)

I have to change trains (and platforms) at Blackburn on my commute twice a day, and personally I just don't see how the station could be gated. The gate lines would either have to be at the top of the platform access ramps, which would result in passengers having to go through two ticket barriers to change trains, or they would have to be installed at the bottom of the ramps in the subway. This is spectacularly pointless as the ticketless could easily entirely bypass the gates simply by using the lifts.

Ticketless travel is certainly a problem at Blackburn, in common with many Northern stations. The overwhelming majority of stations served by trains that call at Blackburn are unstaffed, and even the most nimble and efficient of guards struggle to work through the train in the three or four minutes between station calls. This is the square that needs to be circled by Northern, but I'm not sure automatic ticket barriers are practicable at many stations on their network.

I can't imagine the DfT would be terribly happy at the suggestion, but what is needed is an RPI selling tickets on trains in addition to guards, at least on lines where station calls are frequent and the stations are unstaffed.

Straw poll: hands up anyone who thinks that's gonna happen!

 

[edwin_m]

I can't imagine the DfT would be terribly happy at the suggestion, but what is needed is an RPI selling tickets on trains in addition to guards, at least on lines where station calls are frequent and the stations are unstaffed.

Straw poll: hands up anyone who thinks that's gonna happen!

Or give the drivers full responsibility the doors and let the conductor concentrate fully on revenue duties?

Lights blue touchpaper and retires...

 

[Trackman]

Okay got me there but I did chuckle. I tip my hat to any fare evaders boarding at Ardwick!

I was working up at Bolton today and the grand switch on for the gates is the 12th of December. The side gate at platform 4 gets locked at the end of December apparently when works start on platform 5, woop!

Must be a long walk for those parking!
Not been to Bolton for a while, where will the new ticket gates be?

Photos anyone tomorrow please

 

[STANDISH]

Check out item 149 for the pictures

 

[Chrisyd]

Salford Central ticket barriers are now operating. Most Season tickets are apparently not working. (Mine certainly isn't and the guy on the barrier indicated I was not in a unique position!)

Also the ticket office now has no queue as due to the barriers position you have to buy from an RPI. Can they sell season tickets? With stations such as Hall i'th Wood and Entwistle completely unmanned and with no machines, I assume they are often unable to issue penalty fairs.

 

[Camden]

If someone has an advance ticket that is to Manchester Stns (reservation to Victoria) are they able to get through at Salford Central to connect to Victoria? Is Salford Central in the Manchester STNs group?

Where is there an official up to day list of these?

 

[scrapy]

According to Star, Salford Central is not part of the Manchester Stns group (im sure it used to be). As an advance ticket does not allow break of journey a separate ticket would be required to start or end journey at Salford Central.

If you had an anytime, off peak or season to Manchester Stns from say Todmorden then you would be OK as you could say you were breaking your journey en route to Piccadilly.

 

[takno]

According to Star, Salford Central is not part of the Manchester Stns group (im sure it used to be). As an advance ticket does not allow break of journey a separate ticket would be required to start or end journey at Salford Central.

If you had an anytime, off peak or season to Manchester Stns from say Todmorden then you would be OK as you could say you were breaking your journey en route to Piccadilly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_station_group suggests that Salford Central was dropped from Manchester Stations, but added back last year. If that's correct Star could fairly easily be out of date - I'd assume the station groups change rarely enough to merit manual loading.

 

[Starmill]

The fares group 0438 does not include Salford Central. I'd be surprised if it ever had. That is not to say such a ticket is not valid to start or finish short there of course, break of journey restrictions notwithstanding.

 

[Starmill]

Also the ticket office now has no queue as due to the barriers position you have to buy from an RPI. Can they sell season tickets? With stations such as Hall i'th Wood and Entwistle completely unmanned and with no machines, I assume they are often unable to issue penalty fairs.

I'm really sorry to nit-pick, but a Penalty Fare scheme is something specifically regulated by the Department, and Northern do not have an approved scheme. They are merely selling tickets - or in the well known dubious cases, considering if they can prosecute people.

 

[scrapy]

Yes on further checking of old fares manuals it seems Salford Central was never part of the Manchester stations group. Wikipedia seems to be wrong and the page on national grouping locations only lists 4 stations. I guess someone has confused Manchester Stns fares groping with the one used for routing purposes.

To get the thread back on topic apparently Northern to barrier another phase of 8 stations in addition to those already known about.

Phase 1

Liverpool Lime St
Wigan Wallgate
Salford Crescent
Bolton
Salford Crescent
Bradford FS
Harrogate
Halifax

Phase 2

Blackburn (Deferred from phase 1)
Keighley
St Helens Central
Warrington Central
And 4 others TBC (one is likely to be Manchester Piccadilly 8-14) others are West/South Yorkshre

 

[james2trains]

Yes on further checking of old fares manuals it seems Salford Central was never part of the Manchester stations group. Wikipedia seems to be wrong and the page on national grouping locations only lists 4 stations. I guess someone has confused Manchester Stns fares groping with the one used for routing purposes.

To get the thread back on topic apparently Northern to barrier another phase of 8 stations in addition to those already known about.

Phase 1

Liverpool Lime St
Wigan Wallgate
Salford Crescent
Bolton
Salford Crescent
Bradford FS
Harrogate
Halifax

Phase 2

Blackburn (Deferred from phase 1)
Keighley
St Helens Central
Warrington Central
And 4 others TBC (one is likely to be Manchester Piccadilly 8-14) others are West/South Yorkshre

Is this on their website? I'd be interested in which other Yorkshire ones they're doing.

 

[johntea]

I am struggling at the moment to work out how they're even going to logistically do Keighley!

The ticket office as it is closes quite early I think there for a start unless they're planning to extend hours (the only TVMs at the station are also in there I believe so once it's closed you have to buy on board basically!)

 

[Blindtraveler]

I assume a short barrier line as you come off the bridge with a TVM on the bridge and another near the gateline? Seams a bit bonkers though mind.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Yes on further checking of old fares manuals it seems Salford Central was never part of the Manchester stations group. Wikipedia seems to be wrong and the page on national grouping locations only lists 4 stations.

Wikipedia says

Salford Central station was not part of the Manchester station group between 1989 and 2016.

How far back are you checking? If you went back to before 1989 then I will remove this sentence from the Wikipedia article as it doesn't have a source.

 

[snail]

The fares group 0438 does not include Salford Central. I'd be surprised if it ever had. That is not to say such a ticket is not valid to start or finish short there of course, break of journey restrictions notwithstanding.

I often travel there in a morning, no problem using a Manchester Stns ticket in the new barriers. The last ticket I bought from there had Salford Central as the origin, not Manchester Stns.

 

[scrapy]

Is this on their website? I'd be interested in which other Yorkshire ones they're doing.

No unlikely to be on their website until locations have been finalised and necessary permissions obtained. I know feasibility studies have been carried out at a number of locations including Bingley, Skipton, Guiseley, Barnsley, Meadowhall and Rotherham Ctl. Arriva also have looked into several other stations on the West side including Chorley, Birchwood, Deansgate, Glossop and Wilmslow. These may see barriers at a later date.

 

[scrapy]

I am struggling at the moment to work out how they're even going to logistically do Keighley!

The ticket office as it is closes quite early I think there for a start unless they're planning to extend hours (the only TVMs at the station are also in there I believe so once it's closed you have to buy on board basically!)

The 8 additional stations are in addition to Arrivas franchise agreement so there is no requirement to have these barriers operational from first to last train. That said nearly 700 new ticket machines are on order and 60% of Northern's network will be covered by a dft approved penalty fares scheme by Dec 2019 so my guess is there will be somewhere to buy a ticket after the ticket office closes even if it's an STM staff member with a machine.

 

[scrapy]

How far back are you checking? If you went back to before 1989 then I will remove this sentence from the Wikipedia article as it doesn't have a source.

1998 so no too long after Manchester Stns group started. Tickets were to Manchester BR prior to privatisation. Not sure if this grouping was the same.

 

[PR1Berske]

No unlikely to be on their website until locations have been finalised and necessary permissions obtained. I know feasibility studies have been carried out at a number of locations including Bingley, Skipton, Guiseley, Barnsley, Meadowhall and Rotherham Ctl. Arriva also have looked into several other stations on the West side including Chorley, Birchwood, Deansgate, Glossop and Wilmslow. These may see barriers at a later date.

Chorley will be interesting in practice. If we take as a starting point that ticket machines should be between a recognised main entrance and the platform, I do wonder how a row of ticket gates would fit between, for starters, the doors facing the bus station and the doors at platform level...

 

[WatcherZero]

Salford Central is being added to the stations group to reflect the Ordsall Chord completion.

 

[Camden]

When will that happen?

Does that mean that someone with an advance ticket to Victoria (ticket portion Manchester Stns) will be able to use Salford Central to connect to their advance booked service?

 

[scrapy]

When will that happen?

Does that mean that someone with an advance ticket to Victoria (ticket portion Manchester Stns) will be able to use Salford Central to connect to their advance booked service?

Yes provided the advance ticket is valid on the TOC used to connect. For example a Virgin Trains only ticket would not be valid.

 

[scrapy]

Chorley will be interesting in practice. If we take as a starting point that ticket machines should be between a recognised main entrance and the platform, I do wonder how a row of ticket gates would fit between, for starters, the doors facing the bus station and the doors at platform level...

I guess the ticket machines could be put outside the front somewhere. Ticket barriers also don't have to be inside the building, could be a similar setup to Loughborough at the side of the building under a shelter. Chorley wouldn't need many anyway. 2 plus a wide gate should suffice. With 1 plus a wide gate on the other side.

 

[childwallblues]

it would be interesting to see what plans there are for Birchwood as there are three different entrances to the platforms.