Attachment of earnings

[HisNameisRob]

Hi All,

Hope you can help

Last month I received an attachment of earnings letter as well as my previous employer for a sum of circa £680. I contacted them to find out what it was for and it has been alleged that an offence was committed in March 2015 at SLOUGH where the defendant traveled on a railway, namely SLOUGH, without having previously paid a fare of £4.60 and with intent to avoid payment thereof however all paperwork was sent to an old address of mine where I moved out in 2013.

I went to my local court to do a statutory decoration and now have to go to court on Friday however I have no idea what to do or what will happen.

I managed to have look at the paperwork from the train company and it doesn't say anything about ID check or address check being done and the person didn't even sign the guys notepad etc so basically someone has just given my name over and old address (probably tenant in old flat).

What do now?

Thanks

Rob

 

[Puffing Devil]

You've done the right thing so far by making the statutory declaration.

There will be a new initial hearing for the case on Friday. You will be expected to enter a plea - Guilty or Not Guilty. If it's not Guilty then the matter will be set for trial at a future date and the Train Company (GWR?) will need to prove that it was you that was stopped on the date in question.

It will help you immensely if you can gather, before Friday, any evidence to show that you were elsewhere when the offence occurred. Take this evidence to the Train Company prosecutor as soon as you can in the court day and you may be able to have the case withdrawn on the day.

Do you have any evidence to show that it was not you stopped?

 

[najaB]

What do now?

As Puffing Devil said, you are going to court on Friday to enter a plea.

If you have evidence that it couldn't possibly have been you (e.g. a letter from your employer saying that you were at work somewhere else) then take that along with you. See if it's possible to speak with the TOC's prosecutor before your case is called and show them your evidence. If they believe it then they can withdraw the case there and then.

 

[HisNameisRob]

You've done the right thing so far by making the statutory declaration.

There will be a new initial hearing for the case on Friday. You will be expected to enter a plea - Guilty or Not Guilty. If it's not Guilty then the matter will be set for trial at a future date and the Train Company (GWR?) will need to prove that it was you that was stopped on the date in question.

It will help you immensely if you can gather, before Friday, any evidence to show that you were elsewhere when the offence occurred. Take this evidence to the Train Company prosecutor as soon as you can in the court day and you may be able to have the case withdrawn on the day.

Do you have any evidence to show that it was not you stopped?

Hi, thanks for replying.

I of course will plead not guilty

I have nothing to show that I am aware of so I will have to look look at my bank transactions on that day and a few days after to see if it can show me somewhere else as I think I was off work that day.

What would happen if I can't find anything as this is a case of my word against theirs and I would guess they would win?

Thanks

 

[cuccir]

Just to add that on the day at the Magistrates, you should be able to speak to the Duty Solicitor for free. He or She will help you in pleading not guilty if needed. The Duty Solicitor and court staff ought also to be able to help you in identifying the rail company's prosecutor.

Gathering evidence is important but remember when push comes to shove, it's up to the rail company to prove that it was you, and not for you to prove that it wasn't.

 

[najaB]

Gathering evidence is important but remember when push comes to shove, it's up to the rail company to prove that it was you, and not for you to prove that it wasn't.

Indeed, that is an important point. The reason that it would be useful to have evidence is just to try and stop the process from taking up more of your time than it needs to. You could likely achieve in five minutes face to face with the company's prosecutor what would take several letters back and forth.

 

[HisNameisRob]

This is so annoying, I understand that they have to prove it was me there etc to which I doubt they can as looking at the evidence it was pretty vague but a big company that deals with this all the time against someone that has nothing the odds don't look good do they?

 

[30907]

This is so annoying, I understand that they have to prove it was me there etc to which I doubt they can as looking at the evidence it was pretty vague but a big company that deals with this all the time against someone that has nothing the odds don't look good do they?

On the basis of the (not inconsiderable) number of threads on similar topics, TOCs are also aware that situations like yours occur, so I think you are being unduly pessimistic.

 

[najaB]

On the basis of the (not inconsiderable) number of threads on similar topics, TOCs are also aware that situations like yours occur, so I think you are being unduly pessimistic.

I agree. This sort of thing happens quite often. The TOC's prosecutors will carry out what basic checks are required to confirm that it wasn't the OP and then close the case.

 

[HisNameisRob]

Do you think they would close it on the day or would I have to go back and if I have to go back etc can I claim the cost of travel and loss of earnings etc?

 

[Puffing Devil]

Expenses: These are limited and normally only paid after an unsuccessful trial. I am not familiar with the current rules - others will need to help here.

Duty Solicitor: Access is limited to those who are charged with an imprisonable offence - which you may not be. You need to see if the charge refers to the Bylelaws (no prison) or Regulation of Railways Act (prison - though simply not an option in this case, the fact that is listed as a sentencing option is the key)

Not Guilty: The TOC needs to prove "beyond reasonable doubt" that is was you that evaded the fare on the day. You are entitled to see the evidence that they have. You will be asked your defence, which will most likely be that you deny being the person stopped, false details were supplied and that you will put the TOC to "strict proof" that is was you stopped. If you have evidence to hand to show it was not you, so much the better.

Beware, if it does go to trial, there could be substantial costs involved if you are convicted.

As others have said, a conversation with the TOC prosecutor before the start of the court business (10am) may be productive and bring a speedy end to the matter.

 

[HisNameisRob]

Hi,

Just got home to find a letter from train company asking why I did a stat dec and to contact them asap.

They have said that they will accept £165 as long as I pay by Thursday, saying that on Friday they will ask for the case to be adjourned so they can prepare and call the inspector as a witness (do they actually turn up?).

It also says that if found guilty they will ask for payment of £350 per hour spent on the case and say that if found guilty under the 'Regulation of Railways Act' I could be fined £1000 and/or go to prison for 3 months.

What should I do, contact them tomorrow and explain what I am going to do or just turn up on Friday?

I don't really want to keep traveling backwards and forwards either.

Also apologies for delay in replying I seem to be blocked for some reason till my moderator sees post

 

[Puffing Devil]

Hi,

Just got home to find a letter from train company asking why I did a stat dec and to contact them asap.

They have said that they will accept £165 as long as I pay by Thursday, saying that on Friday they will ask for the case to be adjourned so they can prepare and call the inspector as a witness (do they actually turn up?).

It also says that if found guilty they will ask for payment of £350 per hour spent on the case and say that if found guilty under the 'Regulation of Railways Act' I could be fined £1000 and/or go to prison for 3 months.

What should I do, contact them tomorrow and explain what I am going to do or just turn up on Friday?

I don't really want to keep traveling backwards and forwards either.

Also apologies for delay in replying I seem to be blocked for some reason till my moderator sees post

Apologies if this is too late to be of help.

The letter appears to be a scare tactic to secure some cash from you, and may be attractive to someone who is "chancing their arm", or wants a quick exit from the court process they find themselves in. However, that offer is now moot as Thursday is almost over.

The penalties quoted are maximums and not as would be applied by the Magistrates using their Sentencing Guidelines. If convicted, you would be looking at a fine related to your income, plus reasonable costs incurred by the TOC. You can challenge any costs requested.

When you attend court tomorrow, if you plead Not Guilty, the case will be adjourned as a matter of course for a trial. In the absence of CCTV or other evidence, the only way the TOC can establish that you were the person stopped will be to call the inspector as a witness. You can assume that they will be called.

Questions for you to consider:

1) Have you secured evidence to show that you could not have been stopped at the time shown?

2) Are you sure that the inspector will not be able to positively identify you as the person stopped?

I would hope that the inspector has already made a statement describing the person stopped, which the prosecutor should have a copy of in court. The decision to continue could easily be made.

My advice: speak to the prosecutor ASAP in the morning and see if the matter can be discontinued. If the TOC is determined to go to trial, you are entitled to see the evidence that they will rely on, and any used material that is pertinent to the case. Ensure that you ask for, and receive, copies of this.

And please come back and update us on progress.

 

[najaB]

Also apologies for delay in replying I seem to be blocked for some reason till my moderator sees post

You aren't any more. The first five posts of any new member have to be moderated in order to discourage spammers.

 

[HisNameisRob]

Apologies if this is too late to be of help.

The letter appears to be a scare tactic to secure some cash from you, and may be attractive to someone who is "chancing their arm", or wants a quick exit from the court process they find themselves in. However, that offer is now moot as Thursday is almost over.

Thought as much

The penalties quoted are maximums and not as would be applied by the Magistrates using their Sentencing Guidelines. If convicted, you would be looking at a fine related to your income, plus reasonable costs incurred by the TOC. You can challenge any costs requested.

Good to know thank you

When you attend court tomorrow, if you plead Not Guilty, the case will be adjourned as a matter of course for a trial. In the absence of CCTV I saw no images in the file at the stat dec or other evidence, the only way the TOC can establish that you were the person stopped will be to call the inspector as a witness. You can assume that they will be called.

Questions for you to consider:

1) Have you secured evidence to show that you could not have been stopped at the time shown?

Unfortunately I was off that day and the only thing in my calendar was a midwife appointment

2) Are you sure that the inspector will not be able to positively identify you as the person stopped?

Yes as I was not there, this also happened 1yr 10 months ago so the chances of the guy remembering would be slim that is even if he still works there.

I would hope that the inspector has already made a statement describing the person stopped, which the prosecutor should have a copy of in court. The decision to continue could easily be made.

From what I saw on his notes there was no description or any ID checks done

My advice: speak to the prosecutor ASAP in the morning and see if the matter can be discontinued. If the TOC is determined to go to trial, you are entitled to see the evidence that they will rely on, and any used material that is pertinent to the case. Ensure that you ask for, and receive, copies of this.

And please come back and update us on progress.

I will do, I will update probably whilst I am there as I will be taking my laptop

Many thanks

 

[HisNameisRob]

You aren't any more. The first five posts of any new member have to be moderated in order to discourage spammers.

No I am still being moderated, I posted this at 07:18

 

[Puffing Devil]

As you are in court, and this is <technically> an imprisonable offence, you are entitled to speak to the Duty Solicitor. I would take advantage of that service.

 

[ainsworth74]

Apologies to all the Forum Software appears to have got the bit between it's teeth so some posts by the OP are still being moderated. I have asked an Admin to look into this as a matter of priority and in the mean time will endeavour to keep a close eye on this thread (work permitting) so that things are approved swiftly until they can fix it.

 

[cuccir]

Unfortunately I was off that day and the only thing in my calendar was a midwife appointment

OK, but if the appointment is close in time to the time of the offence, that's good news - presumably you attended with a partner, who would be able to testify on your behalf? The appointment might also make it easier to recall what you did before and after.

 

[HisNameisRob]

Waiting for the prosecutor now, there appears to be a lot of people here!

Was advised to speak to him first before duty solicitor.

 

[HisNameisRob]

Good news guys

Spoke with the prosecutor looked over his notes and they were that same as what I had seen. Explained that I was not there and would have been off and at hospital in the AM etc. He asked to confirm DOB which was incorrect, I should him my passport and he said as that was incorrect and along with the address being wrong they had no case and that he was satisfied with what I said.

He went into court explained and came out 5 mins later and said I could leave.

I was in there for about 30 mins in total.

I asked him why no description was taken or ID checks etc were done and he explained that they have toughened up what they do now and descriptions are taken but with the address all he said was that if it exists then that's what they have to go by.

Many thanks for all your help on here it has been appreciated, glad it is over now.

Thanks Again

Rob

 

[najaB]

Many thanks for all your help on here it has been appreciated, glad it is over now.

Great to hear it, thanks for letting us know.

 

[ainsworth74]

Great! Thanks for letting us know that you got a positive outcome and it's good that common sense has prevailed.

Again, let me just apologise for the problem you've had with posting. The Forum Software should have given you full posting privileges after five posts but that hasn't happened for some reason. We have been recently extremely inundated with spam so possibly it's being a bit of a hypochondriac.

 

[cuccir]

Good news, good to hear that common sense prevails

 

[HisNameisRob]

Hopefully this post goes through.

Yeah glad they saw sense, the guy was actually pretty decent to be fair which was surprising.

I reckon he had loads on that day as I could see so many people on the list for trains, I reckon they must have their own court room there!

Now to try and get my travel expenses reimbursed.....

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks for letting us know how it went. It's really important we build up a case history which will help future visitors.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Excellent - Thanks for updating us.

Good, pertinent, advice posted on the thread with no diversions into obscure side issues, either. Sometimes it really works!

 

[Trackman]

great news, thank you for keeping us posted.

 

[crehld]

Glad this got sorted for you - really good news. I'm locking the thread now but do feel free to contact the forum staff if you want to add anything else that's relevant to this case, and we can reopen it.