New Metrolink routes after second city crossing.

[edwin_m]

Some US systems have distinct 'streetcar' and 'LRV' lines; the former running slower services with shorter vehicles with a higher proportion of the route in mixed traffic.

Cologne also has low and high floor routes, running the "prototypes" for the Croydon and the Manchester trams respectively.

 

[Chester1]

They will still be terminating the airport route at Deansgate-Castlefield, which suggests to me that they don't want to feed any more into the centre.

It will be extended to Victoria, probably by the end of the year. The Trafford Park line will run through the 2CC and terminate at Crumpsall (to avoid needing more trams that can use the old and new signall systems). That means 4 from St Peters square to Piccadilly Gardens, 4 from St Peters Square to Victoria and Victoria to Piccadilly service. Deansgate to St Peters Square will be at absoute maximium capacity and the rest of the city centre wont be far off it. A low level tram segregated from the main network and passing underneath the metrolink near Deansgate through a road archway would be possible but would limit were it could run to.

 

[HSTEd]

Which might be what what is being proposed along Oxford Road; but frankly, I cannot see what such a system might offer that could not be done cheaper and with less disruption by high-capacity articulated battery buses.

Short of annihilating half of the Curry Mile to make the road through it wider - you will never get articulated buses through there in a million years.
There are just too many obstacles and it is too congested.

There is just not enough manouevring room.

 

[Nym]

Short of annihilating half of the Curry Mile to make the road through it wider - you will never get articulated buses through there in a million years.

All the more reason to have articulated buses in my opinion...

 

[HSTEd]

All the more reason to have articulated buses in my opinion...

As someone who lives half the year a hundred metres from it... where would I get my cheap pizza :cry:

 

[Ianno87]

It will be extended to Victoria, probably by the end of the year. The Trafford Park line will run through the 2CC and terminate at Crumpsall (to avoid needing more trams that can use the old and new signall systems). That means 4 from St Peters square to Piccadilly Gardens, 4 from St Peters Square to Victoria and Victoria to Piccadilly service. Deansgate to St Peters Square will be at absoute maximium capacity and the rest of the city centre wont be far off it. A low level tram segregated from the main network and passing underneath the metrolink near Deansgate through a road archway would be possible but would limit were it could run to.

Does anyone know the reason why Airport trams won't be extended to Victoria via 2CC straightaway?

The only other service the south-west leg of Metrolink may have to accommodate in future would be an extra 5 trams per hour via the Airport Western loop (giving 5 trams each way round). This really would be pushing the capacity of the traffic lights at St Peters Square where the line crosses the very top of Oxford St (whatever it's called at that point)

 

[Nym]

As someone who lives half the year a hundred metres from it... where would I get my cheap pizza :cry:

Any of the other 'fantatic' take aways, just not the ones on the North end of Wilmslow Road...

Alternatively, Morrisons on Hathersage Road and cook it yourself.

 

[Chester1]

Does anyone know the reason why Airport trams won't be extended to Victoria via 2CC straightaway?

The only other service the south-west leg of Metrolink may have to accommodate in future would be an extra 5 trams per hour via the Airport Western loop (giving 5 trams each way round). This really would be pushing the capacity of the traffic lights at St Peters Square where the line crosses the very top of Oxford St (whatever it's called at that point)

I can't remember the reason, I think its something about new signalling. Airport loop service will be a necessity by 2033 to make sure terminal 3 and HS2 station are connected to Metrolink. The road traffic would have to be rerouted and some more work done to improve tram capacity, perhaps 4 tracking the on street section from GMEX to St Peters Square. Its fair to say that aside from the airport loop and trafford park that side of Metrolink can't be expanded further. The only room for future growth without a new city centre line would be extending services that terminate at Victoria/Piccadilly/Etihad onto new lines.

 

[Altfish]

Does anyone know the reason why Airport trams won't be extended to Victoria via 2CC straightaway?

IIRC, it is something to do with the signalling on the centre line at Victoria.

The only other service the south-west leg of Metrolink may have to accommodate in future would be an extra 5 trams per hour via the Airport Western loop (giving 5 trams each way round). This really would be pushing the capacity of the traffic lights at St Peters Square where the line crosses the very top of Oxford St (whatever it's called at that point)

Airport Western loop is likely to happen to coincide with HS2 when (if?) that gets to Manchester.
I think by then the car will have been further banned from the city centre and the traffic lights will be less of an issue.

 

[nerd]

IIRC, it is something to do with the signalling on the centre line at Victoria.


Airport Western loop is likely to happen to coincide with HS2 when (if?) that gets to Manchester.
I think by then the car will have been further banned from the city centre and the traffic lights will be less of an issue.

Indeed; though increasing the frequency of the Airport line from 5 tph to 10 tph is likely to happen in the next year or so; and certainly well before any construction of the Western Loop.

there are currently 25 trams per hour through the Peter Street traffic lights.

- that will increase to 30, with the connection of East Didsbury to Rochdale.
- increase to 35 when the Airport services run through to Victoria
- increase to 40 when the Airport line frequency goes to 10 per hour
- increase to 45 when the Trafford Park line opens.

 

[PermitToTravel]

You could get an articulated bus down the curry mile without much trouble (though I still favour any proposals including its demolition)

 

[TC60054]

I can't see how passing platforms at 10mph would help much over just calling there. Unless an avoiding line is to be built for non-stopping trams of course.

You'd be surprised how much time can be saved by non-stopping tram stops, even with a low speed through the stop itself - see Supertram.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You'd be surprised how much time can be saved by non-stopping tram stops, even with a low speed through the stop itself - see Supertram.

There are times when I wonder if operational niceties are seen as far more important in the eyes of certain people then the reason why a modern British tram service was originally envisaged, viz. the provision of a mode of transport to paying customers.

 

[Nym]

There are times when I wonder if operational niceties are seen as far more important in the eyes of certain people then the reason why a modern British tram service was originally envisaged, viz. the provision of a mode of transport to paying customers.

Don't be silly, the railways have never been intended to carry passengers...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Don't be silly, the railways have never been intended to carry passengers...

My posting, written as carefully as my current medical setback would allow, only made reference to a modern British tram service.

It was you made the railways as a comparative answer to my posting and in terms of the raison d'etre of the reasons why some of the very earliest railway systems such as the Stockton and Darlington Railway and the Liverpool and Manchester Railway indeed were established as a means of a faster transportation of goods traffic than the modes previously available, you are indeed most correct.

 

[nerd]

http://www.tfgm.com/2040/Pages/strategy/assets/2017/2-17-0078-GM-2040-Full-Strategy-Document.pdf

We have identified a phased approach to enhancing our Regional Centre rapid transit networks to meet the long-term needs of our rapidly growing economy as follows:

• Short-term (to early 2020s): Completion of Metrolink Second City Centre Crossing; completion of Northern Hub works and introduction of enhanced, higher-capacity heavy rail services; delivery of Trafford Park Line; and increased capacity on the busiest Metrolink lines by running more double-unit vehicles;

• Medium-term (to 2030): Develop and deliver tram-train to improve rapid transit connectivity into and across the Regional Centre and develop potential cross-city metro proposals; develop proposals for our suburban rail network to complement the Northern Powerhouse Rail network; and

• Long-term (from mid-2030s): Implement cross-city rapid transit capacity enhancements, potentially through tunnelled metro services, and deliver suburban rail enhancements to complement Northern Powerhouse Rail.

 

[Starmill]

In Sheffield the tram will only pass the stop if there's nobody getting off and nobody waiting. That's very rare for Metrolink but semi-regular on Supertram.

 

[Altfish]

In Sheffield the tram will only pass the stop if there's nobody getting off and nobody waiting. That's very rare for Metrolink but semi-regular on Supertram.

Yes, but the Supertram has a 'stop request' button that the passenger activates if they want to alight, like on a bus.
Metrolink has no such system.

 

[CC 72100]

In Sheffield the tram will only pass the stop if there's nobody getting off and nobody waiting. That's very rare for Metrolink but semi-regular on Supertram.

Unless the stop we're talking about is Pomona of course

 

[Starmill]

LOL well yes that is definitely true haha. Give it 3 years though...

 

[Starmill]

Yes, but the Supertram has a 'stop request' button that the passenger activates if they want to alight, like on a bus.
Metrolink has no such system.

What would the benefit be? Apart from at Pomona. And even there it would be tiny because there's such a sharp curve.

 

[WatcherZero]

And it will become an interchange station as always planned.

 

[Kite159]

In Sheffield the tram will only pass the stop if there's nobody getting off and nobody waiting. That's very rare for Metrolink but semi-regular on Supertram.

Similar to Nottingham & Blackpool, they only stop if requested on board or the driver sees someone waiting on the platform.

 

[HSTEd]

http://www.tfgm.com/2040/Pages/strategy/assets/2017/2-17-0078-GM-2040-Full-Strategy-Document.pdf

Ah, the joys of a 134 page document that actually contains 30 pages or so of information once all the focus group puffery and statements that are so vague as to be useless are cut out.

When did these documents become so vacuous?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

http://www.tfgm.com/2040/Pages/strategy/assets/2017/2-17-0078-GM-2040-Full-Strategy-Document.pdf

When 2040 finally hoves into view, if I am still around, I will be 95 years of age and not really bothered about transport issues..

 

[nerd]

http://www.metrolink.co.uk/pages/news.aspx?newsID=461

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well, a family friend and I decided to try out the new 2CC that came into operation yesterday. We drove to the East Didsbury Metrolink car park and took the East Didsbury to Rochdale service (via Exchange Square).

All was well but at Deansgate-Castlefield, about 1300 hours, the Piccadilly tram in front of us at the platform and our tram were held up for just over 10 minutes. The driver twice made announcements to say that he did not know the reason for the delay.

Anyone here on the thread know what occurred?

 

[Altfish]

Well, a family friend and I decided to try out the new 2CC that came into operation yesterday. We drove to the East Didsbury Metrolink car park and took the East Didsbury to Rochdale service (via Exchange Square).

All was well but at Deansgate-Castlefield, about 1300 hours, the Piccadilly tram in front of us at the platform and our tram were held up for just over 10 minutes. The driver twice made announcements to say that he did not know the reason for the delay.

Anyone here on the thread know what occurred?

I've not heard anything. Paul.
They were ok a couple of hours earlier. It is usually a point failure

 

[ValleyLines142]

Well, a family friend and I decided to try out the new 2CC that came into operation yesterday. We drove to the East Didsbury Metrolink car park and took the East Didsbury to Rochdale service (via Exchange Square).

All was well but at Deansgate-Castlefield, about 1300 hours, the Piccadilly tram in front of us at the platform and our tram were held up for just over 10 minutes. The driver twice made announcements to say that he did not know the reason for the delay.

Anyone here on the thread know what occurred?

3109 on a Shaw service had the hazards on outside Manchester Central, so this must have been the offending unit. 3074 was before on an Ashton service and there were no problems there. As a result, on the raised section up to Deansgate, 3044 on an Etihad service, 3114 on a Rochdale service, 3012+3010 on a Bury service and 3105 on an Ashton service were all stacked up behind. 3076+3077 on a Shaw service were also behind by Cornbrook.

3109 was fine later in the day though.

I went past in the opposite direction on 3064!

 

[deltic]

How long would it now take to cover the whole Metrolink network at a reasonable pace - ie stop every now again for a bite to eat and a comfort break or two!