Cross-City Electrification from Barnt Green to Bromsgrove

[XDM]

Sorry to add to the confusion. Network Rail & Planner fully rehabilitated as far as Bromsgrove is concerned! It's a good piece of upgrade.

 

[Class172]

Another question (unfortunately) - I appreciate that P3 will be where the electric trains from Birmingham terminate, but will it also be the platform from which the electric trains to Birmingham start (i.e. P3 for both getting off and getting on) ? I've not had a chance to look closely at where the cross-over from P3 back to the Birmingham-bound/up-Lickey is actually located at Bromsgrove, so has it been decided whether it will be P2 (for the Herefords to Birmingham) and P3 (for the electrics to Birmingham) or P2 for both ? As a user, it would be very useful and helpful to know when rushing across the car park.....

Your first thoughts are correct. Platform 3 will be used solely for the Cross-City services, where they will start and terminate. The facing crossover is just to the north of the station to allow departing trains from P3 to cross onto the Up Main. Platform 2 will be the preserve of non-stopping and Hereford services.

 

[Class172]

I noticed last weekend whilst travelling through the station that there was a service due to terminate using platform 3. I have done a quick bit of looking and noticed that the following services operate on a Saturday only:

1114 BMV-BHM (arr. 1138)
1619 BHM-BMV (arr. 1640)

Are these new services? Is their purpose mainly for some form of testing, given that they are non-stop (no University call) and ECS runs provide the stock for these lone services?

BHM - Birmingham New Street; BMV - Bromsgrove

 

[louis97]

I noticed last weekend whilst travelling through the station that there was a service due to terminate using platform 3. I have done a quick bit of looking and noticed that the following services operate on a Saturday only:

1114 BMV-BHM (arr. 1138)
1619 BHM-BMV (arr. 1640)

Are these new services? Is their purpose mainly for some form of testing, given that they are non-stop (no University call) and ECS runs provide the stock for these lone services?

BHM - Birmingham New Street; BMV - Bromsgrove

No, London Midland have ran these services for as long as I can remember. They used to shunt out and back into the old station.

One of them actually used Platform 1 last Saturday.

 

[Class172]

Ah, I see. Somehow I've never noticed them before.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I counted 22/33 mast bases (Up/Down) between Barnt Green and Blackwell today, and 39/45 between Blackwell and Bromsgrove.
Very few on the bottom quarter of the Lickey, and none at all through the remodelled area round Bromsgrove new station.
The work site near the top of the Lickey looked busy enough though.
Quite a number of the bases through Blackwell were of the substantial concrete kind.

 

[Class172]

On my latest journey this week though the station, it was a rare occasion where I manged to obtain a seat, affording me views outside of the train! Travelling towards Birmingham I was looking at the new signalling that had been put in place on the other track; once past Bromsgrove I noticed two new signals that I've never seen anywhere before. These simply displayed an arrow on them - at first I thought this was a new type of repeater for the junction signal on the approach to the station, but then I saw the same for a standard signal near Blackwell. Can anyone enlighten me as to the purpose of these extra signals (I have provided a diagram illustrating what I saw)?

 

[Railsigns]

On my latest journey this week though the station, it was a rare occasion where I manged to obtain a seat, affording me views outside of the train! Travelling towards Birmingham I was looking at the new signalling that had been put in place on the other track; once past Bromsgrove I noticed two new signals that I've never seen anywhere before. These simply displayed an arrow on them - at first I thought this was a new type of repeater for the junction signal on the approach to the station, but then I saw the same for a standard signal near Blackwell. Can anyone enlighten me as to the purpose of these extra signals (I have provided a diagram illustrating what I saw)?

Preliminary route indicators.

See bottom of this page.

 

[ac6000cw]

'preliminary route indicator' signals maybe - see http://www.railsigns.uk/sect6page5/sect6page5.html (about halfway down the page)

 

[Class172]

Thanks guys for the link - makes sense now.

 

[pistonvalve]

Hi, posted this and was directed to this thread:

Does anybody have a 'track plan' of the formation at the south end of the new station? What arrangements are there for banking freight trains up the incline? I understand that platforms 2 and 3 will be electrified and 1 and 4 will be for through traffic, if so what will be the speed restriction over the north end turnouts? Is the track quadrupled to Stoke Works junction?

Thank you for any comments.


This very informative thread answered most of my questions. However it is not clear what the track plan is south of Bromsgrove station to Stoke Works junction. Had a look on Google Earth but shows this to be a mixture of double- triple and quadruple lines! I feel sure somebody on here in the know can give a sketch of the final track plan south.

The last time I visited Bromsgrove station - 21C had Beyer-garratt 69999 inside and 58100 did most of the banking. So please forgive me for being out of the loop!!

Mike.

 

[Class172]

Hi, posted this and was directed to this thread:

Does anybody have a 'track plan' of the formation at the south end of the new station? What arrangements are there for banking freight trains up the incline? I understand that platforms 2 and 3 will be electrified and 1 and 4 will be for through traffic, if so what will be the speed restriction over the north end turnouts? Is the track quadrupled to Stoke Works junction?

Thank you for any comments.

The answer to your question can be found in the Western Region Sectional Appendix - pages 359-60 should cover everything you need.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The answer to your question can be found in the Western Region Sectional Appendix - pages 359-60 should cover everything you need.

And it's worth mentioning that the NR Route boundary between LNW and Western Routes has shifted southwards 26 miles from Blackwell Summit to MP 78.40, 2 miles north of Ashchurch station.
The Cotswold line and Worcester loop with their manual boxes remain under Western control (for now).

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

And it's worth mentioning that the NR Route boundary between LNW and Western Routes has shifted southwards 26 miles from Blackwell Summit to MP 78.40, 2 miles north of Ashchurch station.
The Cotswold line and Worcester loop with their manual boxes remain under Western control (for now).

And that slight oddity means that the new Worcestershire Parkway station will now be built straddling two different Routes, Western (high level) and LNW (low level), while any trains using the Norton Jn-Abbotswood Jn chord now pass out of Western into LNW and then back into Western again. Who comes up with these ideas!

 

[D1009]

Hi, posted this and was directed to this thread:

Does anybody have a 'track plan' of the formation at the south end of the new station? What arrangements are there for banking freight trains up the incline? I understand that platforms 2 and 3 will be electrified and 1 and 4 will be for through traffic, if so what will be the speed restriction over the north end turnouts? Is the track quadrupled to Stoke Works junction?

Thank you for any comments.


This very informative thread answered most of my questions. However it is not clear what the track plan is south of Bromsgrove station to Stoke Works junction. Had a look on Google Earth but shows this to be a mixture of double- triple and quadruple lines! I feel sure somebody on here in the know can give a sketch of the final track plan south.

The last time I visited Bromsgrove station - 21C had Beyer-garratt 69999 inside and 58100 did most of the banking. So please forgive me for being out of the loop!!

Mike.

Actually south of Bromsgrove it hasn't changed much. The former down goods line now starts a bit further south and has become a passenger line redesignated as the down Bromsgrove Loop, and the Up Goods Loop has been realigned round the new station and has been similarly redesignated the Up Bromsgrove Loop, with crossovers both ways immediately south of the station.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

And that slight oddity means that the new Worcestershire Parkway station will now be built straddling two different Routes, Western (high level) and LNW (low level), while any trains using the Norton Jn-Abbotswood Jn chord now pass out of Western into LNW and then back into Western again. Who comes up with these ideas!

I believe the long term plan is for Evesham-Worcester-Droitwich/Shelwick Jn will eventually go to LNW (or whoever runs WMSC at the time).
But there's no date for replacing all that old GW signalling.

 

[deltic08]

And it's worth mentioning that the NR Route boundary between LNW and Western Routes has shifted southwards 26 miles from Blackwell Summit to MP 78.40, 2 miles north of Ashchurch station.
The Cotswold line and Worcester loop with their manual boxes remain under Western control (for now).

What will take over Gloucester Box eventually as Cardiff has taken over most of Gloucester-Severn Tunnel Junction and now West Midlands has taken over a chunk of Gloucester-Birmingham?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

What will take over Gloucester Box eventually as Cardiff has taken over most of Gloucester-Severn Tunnel Junction and now West Midlands has taken over a chunk of Gloucester-Birmingham?

Bristol will take over the remainder of the Gloucester control area I believe.
On the other hand it might be Didcot or Cardiff ROC.
It probably depends on wider electrification plans, currently in limbo.
Anyway it will eventually disappear as a signalling centre.

 

[headshot119]

Bristol will take over the remainder of the Gloucester control area I believe.
On the other hand it might be Didcot or Cardiff ROC.
It probably depends on wider electrification plans, currently in limbo.
Anyway it will eventually disappear as a signalling centre.

Gloucester (or what's left of it) will end up in TVSC at Didcot.

 

[snowball]

In the Trackwatch section of the February Modern Railways there's more than a page about the transfer of control to WMSC of the route from Birmingham to the aforementioned boundary near Ashchurch.

 

[pistonvalve]

Thank you Class 172 for the info, The track plans make things clear!!

Mike.

 

[deltic08]

Gloucester (or what's left of it) will end up in TVSC at Didcot.

That sounds like another Preston where a few miles of the remote Calder Valley route was controlled from a signal box on another major corridor.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That sounds like another Preston where a few miles of the remote Calder Valley route was controlled from a signal box on another major corridor.

All that is due to go to Manchester ROC when Preston is replaced in about a decade.
The other half of the Calder Valley will go to York.

 

[jamieintercity]

Is bromsgrove still getting electric services at the end of the year or has this been pushed back?

What about walsall to rugeley line, is that still get electrified by end of the year or again being pushed back?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is bromsgrove still getting electric services at the end of the year or has this been pushed back?
What about walsall to rugeley line, is that still get electrified by end of the year or again being pushed back?

Yes and yes, but the completion dates are a bit vague.
The Rugeley line has construction problems because of old mining shafts.
Bromsgrove should be first.
It's the same team doing both lines.

 

[ChrisHogan]

Is bromsgrove still getting electric services at the end of the year or has this been pushed back?

What about walsall to rugeley line, is that still get electrified by end of the year or again being pushed back?

Network Rail announced when its completed the Bromsgrove remodelling last October that electrification work was scheduled to be completed by September 2017 with electric services starting in December 2017. The XC consultation that proposes the removal of the peak-hour stops in the Cardiff-Nottinghams also assumed the extension of CrossCity services to Bromsgrove in December 2017.

It is far from clear however whether the additional two 323s needed will be available to resource the extension. The 350s in the last order that should have released 323s for Bromsgrove have long been deployed to London area services and the 323 fleet is fully committed already. There was planned shortforming last autumn with one circuit running 3 vice 6 when the 323s were being retractioned.

Unless Northern can release a handful of 323s in advance of the introduction of the 331s from October 2018, then the prospects appear to be bleak.

Another issue is that route knowledge by NS crews beyond Barnt Green is limited to those signing Worcester while probably the whole depot signs XCity so there is significant route training to be carried out as well.

DfT specifies as a minimum that 27 extra vehicles should be deployed from the December 2018 timetable; presumably nine cascaded Northern 323s but these will be needed largely for Rugeley electrification and the extension of one Birmingham-Wolves service to Crewe via Stoke each hour.

Its been suggested that 350/4s and 321s could produce an internal cascade to release 323s but none of these seem to be likely to be available to West Midlands TOC this year.

 

[The Planner]

Never mind the issue of where the extra 323s will live, lots of out stabling I suspect which the track maintainer will love....

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Never mind the issue of where the extra 323s will live, lots of out stabling I suspect which the track maintainer will love....

What ever happened to the proposed new EMU depot at Duddeston?

 

[The Planner]

Too much money and not enough in the kitty to pay.

 

[Ianno87]

I suppose if push came to shove in December 2017 one *could* just extend a handful of individual Cross-City services to directly replace the specific calls XC remove at the same times. But to save having to use more units you'd probably have to sacrifice the outward/return contra-peak working in each case that currently forms whatever train starts at Longbridge that would be started back at Bromsgrove.