EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[miami]

Looking forward to the US/UK trade deal

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-trade-idUSKBN15A2MP

U.S. President Donald Trump said on Thursday he would strike numerous bilateral trade deals, as opposed to multilateral accords like the Trans-Pacific Partnership, and they would include clauses to allow a 30-day termination notice.

"Believe me, we're going to have a lot of trade deals," Trump told a gathering of Republican lawmakers. "If that particular country doesn't treat us fairly, we send them a 30-day termination, notice of termination."

Hilarious. But also concerning.

 

[NSEFAN]

All I did was ask a question. Where did I imply any wrong doing? Are you denying that the Greeks have a problem in the collection of taxes?

When did I say that the article is wrong?

The issue of Greeks bearing unpaid tax bills hardly related to the main point though, which is that whilst British citizens currently have the right to live and work in other EU nations, this right will most likely be removed once we leave the EU.

 

[anme]

All I did was ask a question. Where did I imply any wrong doing? Are you denying that the Greeks have a problem in the collection of taxes?

I'll just repeat your post, which was in response to someone writing that their parents had moved to Greece, for your convenience.

I hope your parents paid tax on their Greek earnings. Greece's inability to collect taxes is one of the reasons why the country is in such a mess. Disgusting.

It's rather like reading that someone's friend visited London and had a good time, and writing a response asking when the UK will start paying reparations for slavery.

When did I say that the article is wrong?

I'm glad you agree with it. If there are no negative responses soon, we will all be agreement that leaving the EU is very bad idea and we will be able to close this thread.

 

[NSEFAN]

Looking forward to the US/UK trade deal

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-trade-idUSKBN15A2MP


Hilarious. But also concerning.

As an aside, do US citizens currently have a right to such a generous 30 day termination notice on their own employment?

 

[RichmondCommu]

I'll just repeat your post, which was in response to someone writing that their parents had moved to Greece, for your convenience.

I hope your parents paid tax on their Greek earnings. Greece's inability to collect taxes is one of the reasons why the country is in such a mess. Disgusting.

It's rather like reading that someone's friend visited London and had a good time, and writing a response asking when the UK will start paying reparations for slavery.

Paul's parents moved to Greece for my convenience?? Are you sure??

I've often thought that we should start paying reparations myself. Good idea.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I'm glad you agree with it. If there are no negative responses soon, we will all be agreement that leaving the EU is very bad idea and we will be able to close this thread.

I hadn't realised that you had been elevated to the role of Moderator.

 

[burneside]

"Taking back control" from Brussels is what I understand that slogan to mean. We will be able to negotiate trade deals with whomever we please and on mutually agreeable terms, something which we are forbidden to do at the moment.

I take whatever the The Economist opines with a massive pinch of salt, it is unashamedly pro-EU and that is reflected in its output. I remember the BBC showing a blatantly biased EU propaganda film a couple of years ago, The Great European Disaster Movie, which was co-produced by an ex-editor of The Economist. Says it all, really.

 

[AlterEgo]

I think that, despite all the negativity around Brexit, it would be a lot more constructive if we simply all took a deep breath and embraced the situation.

If someone pushes you off a first floor windowsill, there's not much point in turning round on the way down and bellowing about how stupid the pusher was. Much better to put your arms out to cushion your fall.

Perversely, once Brexit had been voted for, Trump was the better choice of Britain. He's a committed Anglophile, unlike his predecessor. He's also grateful for Brexit providing some small momentum to his campaign. He's also - I feel - unlikely to take the USA or us into any more costly wars, because they're expensive.

Trump is not a nice man, but we should really be looking at what we can get from him. The US economy feels buoyant at the moment, and in some ways I'd rather be tapping into that than looking at Europe, which by and large has a serious crisis of confidence at the moment.

I'm not asking anyone to like the situation, but hey, let's just get on with it. Some of the comments on this thread are more than a little overbearing.

 

[anme]

Paul's parents moved to Greece for my convenience?? Are you sure??

Yes absolutely sure.

 

[anme]

I hadn't realised that you had been elevated to the role of Moderator.

Sadly not yet, but I'm sure you would concur that there's little point continuing the discussion if we're all in agreement that leaving the EU is a terrible idea.

 

[anme]

"Taking back control" from Brussels is what I understand that slogan to mean. We will be able to negotiate trade deals with whomever we please and on mutually agreeable terms, something which we are forbidden to do at the moment.

I take whatever the The Economist opines with a massive pinch of salt, it is unashamedly pro-EU and that is reflected in its output. I remember the BBC showing a blatantly biased EU propaganda film a couple of years ago, The Great European Disaster Movie, which was co-produced by an ex-editor of The Economist. Says it all, really.

Your post certainly does say a lot. Please could you state exactly which points in the Economist article you consider to be wrong? This general disparagement of anyone who questions the wisdom of leaving the EU, but failure to provide justification, facts or arguments to back up your point of view, makes having any informed debate impossible.

 

[radamfi]

let's just get on with it. Some of the comments on this thread are more than a little overbearing.

The war is not over yet, so we shouldn't give up. Hard Brexit isn't inevitable. If it does happen, we can get back into the single market. And even if the war was really over, then we still don't have to "get on with it". Those of us who are able to, can leave the UK. We can boycott British goods as much as possible and stop supporting British sportspeople and teams. We can holiday in the EU instead of Britain. There's also no way I'm visiting America while Trump is president.

 

[Aldaniti]

Aldaniti. You forgot to mention the likelihood of France voting in le penn as president.

Yes, it's certainly possible. That would put the cat amongst the pigeons in Europe.

 

[burneside]

Your post certainly does say a lot. Please could you state exactly which points in the Economist article you consider to be wrong? This general disparagement of anyone who questions the wisdom of leaving the EU, but failure to provide justification, facts or arguments to back up your point of view, makes having any informed debate impossible.

The link to the full article does not work, for me anyway, so I can only go by what what quoted. When the author states "taking back control" is a bad joke, and that we are "prostrating" ourselves in front of the US then it is clear the article is an opinion piece.

 

[Howardh]

The war is not over yet, so we shouldn't give up. Hard Brexit isn't inevitable. If it does happen, we can get back into the single market. And even if the war was really over, then we still don't have to "get on with it". Those of us who are able to, can leave the UK. We can boycott British goods as much as possible and stop supporting British sportspeople and teams. We can holiday in the EU instead of Britain. There's also no way I'm visiting America while Trump is president.

Attaboy! Bit harsh though, unless it's tongue-in-cheek! Brexiters will be moaning (Brexmoaners) that we would be trying to trash the country...and that's their job!

Done my bit though, just bough a new car, Hyundai. Owned by Korea, built in Turkey and probably designed in Germany. Nope, it's not an anti-British thing, just the best in it's class for the price. Just waiting for it to turn up.

But that, in a nutshell, is what the British will be up against. If we can't sell a car to someone here, how the Trump do expect to sell more overseas? Naturally, if imported cars require tariffs/taxes, then a home-grown job would be more favourable. But ours to export would be more expensive (wouldn't they) and much of the world we are trying to sell to are a lot worse off than us.

 

[miami]

I think the master plan is to continue crashing the pound, your €30k Hyundai would have cost £23k last year, £27k this year, but the end goal is that it should cost £60k, even before the import duty.

Likewise a UK built car which costs £30k would have cost €39k last year, €35k this year, but only €15k when the goal is finished.

Add in 5% duty in each direction and you're looking at a UK person with UK funds paying £63k for a Hyundai, or £30k for a UK one (let's call it "Lada"). An EUer will pay €30k for a Hyundai, but only €16k for a Lada.

One issue is that the Lada will only come in 3 colours (Red, White and Blue). And it will be crap. And you won't have a job so won't be able to afford it, and even if you could afford it you couldn't drive it (According to UKIP)


The UK's GDP would have been down in Q4 if it wasn't for the weak pound boosting tourism

UK gross domestic product (GDP) was estimated to have increased by 0.6% during Quarter 4 (Oct to Dec) 2016, the same rate of growth as in the previous 2 quarters.

Growth during Quarter 4 was dominated by services, with a strong contribution from consumer-focused industries such as retail sales and travel agency services.

Following falls in Quarter 3 (July to Sept) 2016, construction and production provided negligible positive contributions to GDP growth in Quarter 4 2016.

 

[burneside]

The war is not over yet, so we shouldn't give up. Hard Brexit isn't inevitable. If it does happen, we can get back into the single market. And even if the war was really over, then we still don't have to "get on with it". Those of us who are able to, can leave the UK. We can boycott British goods as much as possible and stop supporting British sportspeople and teams. We can holiday in the EU instead of Britain. There's also no way I'm visiting America while Trump is president.

The "war" was over when the polls closed on June 23rd. Get used to it.

 

[anme]

The link to the full article does not work, for me anyway, so I can only go by what what quoted. When the author states "taking back control" is a bad joke, and that we are "prostrating" ourselves in front of the US then it is clear the article is an opinion piece.

This is the link: http://www.economist.com/news/brita...ns-country-has-less-not-more-control-over-its

When the author states that "taking back control" is a bad joke, they explain why they think that. You need to explain why you think they are wrong.

Saying that someone who once worked for the Economist once directed an allegedly pro-EU film is not justification for dismissing everything in the article.

 

[anme]

The "war" was over when the polls closed on June 23rd. Get used to it.

No (although I don't like the militaristic metaphor). As I have explained many many times on this forum, there are a huge range of possible options for the UK outside the EU, from a "Norwegian" model to total isolation.

And anyway, why shouldn't someone who favours remaining in the EU continue to believe that after the referendum, and continue to argue for it? Do you really agree with the result of every election and every referendum ever held in the UK?

 

[burneside]

No (although I don't like the militaristic metaphor). As I have explained many many times on this forum, there are a huge range of possible options for the UK outside the EU, from a "Norwegian" model to total isolation.

And anyway, why shouldn't someone who favours remaining in the EU continue to believe that after the referendum, and continue to argue for it? Do you really agree with the result of every election and every referendum ever held in the UK?

No, I don't agree with the result of every election, but I just have to suck it up till there is an opportunity to vote again. I disagreed with the result of the 1975 referendum, and it took 41 years to get a re-run. The Remoaners are free to campaign for a few decades if they wish, but they will have no say in the Brexit negotiations.

 

[deltic]

I think the master plan is to continue crashing the pound, your €30k Hyundai would have cost £23k last year, £27k this year, but the end goal is that it should cost £60k, even before the import duty.

Likewise a UK built car which costs £30k would have cost €39k last year, €35k this year, but only €15k when the goal is finished.

Add in 5% duty in each direction and you're looking at a UK person with UK funds paying £63k for a Hyundai, or £30k for a UK one (let's call it "Lada"). An EUer will pay €30k for a Hyundai, but only €16k for a Lada.

But as the UK built Lada contains 50% imported components it will cost €37.5k in EUland so we dont even win under that scenario!

 

[dosxuk]

The "war" was over when the polls closed on June 23rd. Get used to it.

Remind me again how we got to the point of having a referendum? I thought it was because a group of people were unhappy with the result of the previous EU referendum, and spent years lobbying for a new one. Obviously I was mistaken, because everyone must have accepted the previous democratic vote and realised alternative views were verboten.

I, and many others, still believe being a member of the EU is the best thing for this country and its population. Despite asking on numerous occasions, I'm yet to hear any justification for us being better off as a country outside of the EU. I accept we're leaving, but I will fully back any political group working to bring us back, which I see as no different (or any more anti-democratic) than people voting for UKIP over the last 20 years. If circumstances change, and we somehow manage to make a success out of this, I'll quite happily acknowledge I'm wrong.

As it stands, the only real positive I can see about this whole debacle is that the UK Government won't be able to blame their own failures and stupidity on the EU any more, which will hopefully lead to them being held to account for their broken promises more often.

 

[anme]

No, I don't agree with the result of every election, but I just have to suck it up till there is an opportunity to vote again. I disagreed with the result of the 1975 referendum, and it took 41 years to get a re-run. The Remoaners are free to campaign for a few decades if they wish, but they will have no say in the Brexit negotiations.

Absolute nonsense. I have as much right to a say in the negotiations to leave the EU as you do. How can you possibly think otherwise?

And please tell us why you disagree with the points in this article: http://www.economist.com/news/brita...ns-country-has-less-not-more-control-over-its

 

[dosxuk]

The Remoaners are free to campaign for a few decades if they wish, but they will have no say in the Brexit negotiations.

How on earth is that democratic? Did UKIP supporters not get a chance to affect the way the EU ran?

Our parliamentary system is there to represent everyone, not just those who were on the winning side of a vote. Should those who disagree with smoking being banned inside public spaces not be allowed to comment or work on any Governmental smoking policy now? Should those who voted against tuition fees not be allowed any say in educational matters?

 

[AlterEgo]

No, I don't agree with the result of every election, but I just have to suck it up till there is an opportunity to vote again. I disagreed with the result of the 1975 referendum, and it took 41 years to get a re-run. The Remoaners are free to campaign for a few decades if they wish, but they will have no say in the Brexit negotiations.

I think you'll find that most of the politicians and civil servants who will be sorting Brexit out voted Remain.

 

[Howardh]

No, I don't agree with the result of every election, but I just have to suck it up till there is an opportunity to vote again. I disagreed with the result of the 1975 referendum, and it took 41 years to get a re-run. The Remoaners are free to campaign for a few decades if they wish, but they will have no say in the Brexit negotiations.

That's the real problem here, there won't be another chance (as you allude to) for 40-odd years, and I'll be well gone by then. So it's important we get this right; and us remoaners will continue to press for the best deal for the 52 AND the 48. Every single thing that goes wrong, we're on your back (not you personally, obvs!). But the key is anyone with a bit of dosh can watch the country implode safe in the knowledge that they can clear off (and take their money with them) at any time.

If Brexit goes right, then fair do's. But as that Peter Hitchen (no, me neither) said on the Politics Show, we could end with the situation where we are half out (of the EU) now, and we end up simply being half in. That'll do me

 

[Howardh]

But as the UK built Lada contains 50% imported components it will cost €37.5k in EUland so we dont even win under that scenario!

I'm happy to think that someone assumes I can spend £30k on a Hyundai

Clue; the newbie has an annual road-tax of £20. Some lawn mowers pay more!!!

 

[burneside]

Absolute nonsense. I have as much right to a say in the negotiations to leave the EU as you do. How can you possibly think otherwise?

And please tell us why you disagree with the points in this article: http://www.economist.com/news/brita...ns-country-has-less-not-more-control-over-its

I do not have a say in the Brexit negotiations, and neither do you.

That piece from The Economist, is more opinion and speculation than fact. "Britain may still have to pay into the EU", "Trump reportedly wants the Queen watch him play golf". Really?

The Economist used to be a respected publication, but now it's just an EU-loving mouthpiece. I pay little attention to its biased outpourings.

 

[burneside]

I think you'll find that most of the politicians and civil servants who will be sorting Brexit out voted Remain.

And I suspect that is why Theresa May got rid of Ivan Rogers.

 

[miami]

I do not have a say in the Brexit negotiations, and neither do you.

That piece from The Economist, is more opinion and speculation than fact. "Britain may still have to pay into the EU", "Trump reportedly wants the Queen watch him play golf". Really?

The Economist used to be a respected publication, but now it's just an EU-loving mouthpiece. I pay little attention to its biased outpourings.

I find the alt-right have very similar views as you. Anything more liberal than brietbart is an EU-loving mouthpiece.