EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[AlterEgo]

But Brexit means a red white & blue Brexit

By that, it looks like it means an American one. With Trump.

Deep joy.

 

[EM2]

Leaving the single market was mentioned many times during the campaign, it's all there if you care to search for it. For me, and I suspect a lot of leave voters, it also means no FoM and no contributions to the EU budget.

You 'suspect'. You don't know.
Let's ask this chap in Barnsley, shall we?
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eu-referendum-muslims_uk_576e558ce4b08d2c563937ff

“It’s all about immigration. It’s not about trade or Europe or anything like that, it’s all about immigration.

“It’s to stop Muslims coming into this country. Simple as that.”

Journalist Ciaran Jenkins asks him: “Do you think you voted to leave the EU to stop Muslims coming to the country?”

The man replies: “To stop immigration. The movement of people in Europe, fair enough but not from Africa, Syria, Iraq or anywhere else.”

Oh, nothing to do with trade. And movement of people in Europe is fair enough.

 

[miami]

And NOT leaving it was also mentioned by the leave campaign. its all there if you care to search for it.
For at least one leave voter I personally know, and I suspect a lot more, staying in the single market and accepting some degree of FoM was the sensible option.

So what do we believe?

We believe that on June 24th

1) At least (and probably more*) 48% of people wanted to stay in the EU
2) A number less than 52% wanted to leave the EU, the EEA, and start renegotiating our trade deals all over again
3) A number less than 52% wanted to leave the EU, but stay in the EEA or a similar arrangement (like Norway, Switzerland)

What we don't know is how many people were in group 2, and how many in group 3, however I suspect more than 2% of the voters were in group 3. If that's true, then it's clear a majority reject May's brexit plans, even ignoring those that didn't or couldn't vote.

* Some people voted leave expecting to remain as a way of protesting austerity :roll:. Unlikely to have protest votes the other way round.

 

[furnessvale]

But NOBODY was sure what leave really meant.

Some people were talking about leaving but wanting to stay in the single market and trying to get a deal like Switzerland etc.
Other people were talking about leaving everything, not being in the single market etc.
Other people were talking about leaving everything, not being in the single market and setting fire to every single EU based law or regulation that has been written into UK law.

Was anybody sure what remain meant.

Some talked about remaining but reforming the EU from within to be more to our liking.
Others talked about remaining but maintaining so many opt outs we would finish up more like Norway.
Others talked about full speed ahead into a United States of Europe.

To talk as if only leave had several options is simply untrue.

 

[burneside]

Could you point to that on the ballot paper? After all, countries outside the EU contribute to the EU and benefit from freedom of movement - for example Norway, as was widely mentioned by the Leave campaign http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/591988/Nigel-Farage-EU-European-Union-Ukip .

Out of interest, why do you think that British people should lose freedom of movement rights? Which other rights would you personally like to give up?

By referendum day we had been through four months of intense debate and campaigning, I think everybody on the leave side knew what was on the cards if the vote went that way.

 

[burneside]

You 'suspect'. You don't know.
Let's ask this chap in Barnsley, shall we?
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eu-referendum-muslims_uk_576e558ce4b08d2c563937ff

Oh, nothing to do with trade. And movement of people in Europe is fair enough.

You can trust the dear C4 News to scour the country looking for a chap like that to interview.

 

[miami]

You 'suspect'. You don't know.
Let's ask this chap in Barnsley, shall we?
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eu-referendum-muslims_uk_576e558ce4b08d2c563937ff

Oh, nothing to do with trade. And movement of people in Europe is fair enough.

Leave voters and Trump voters are very similar -- clueless. Take this poor confused person

@realDonaldTrump I voted for you and I am on Obama care as I have no job and the sub I get keeps me with insurance. Will I lose the help?

Where's that facepalm smilie

 

[WelshBluebird]

By referendum day we had been through four months of intense debate and campaigning, I think everybody on the leave side knew what was on the cards if the vote went that way.

Except they didn't. Because even the official campaigns were all saying different things. The quote about Daniel Hannan about "no-one is talking about leaving the single market" is not the only one.

 

[EM2]

You can trust the dear C4 News to scour the country looking for a chap like that to interview.

That video was posted the day after the referendum. Didn't need much scouring of the country.

 

[anme]

By referendum day we had been through four months of intense debate and campaigning, I think everybody on the leave side knew what was on the cards if the vote went that way.

Absolute nonsense. I have pointed to a reference dated 18th July 2015 where Nigel Farage - the leader of UKIP - suggests that countries such as "Norway, Iceland and Switzerland" are "confident nations grasping the opportunities that a global perspective presents". Please point to an unambiguous reference dated between 18th July 2015 and 24th June 2016 where Nigel Farage - the leader of UKIP - explains that he has changed his mind. Also I will need to see references from other significant leave campaigners.

Alternative facts are not good enough.

Also, I'm not going to let you off the hook with my other questions. I will repeat them here for your convenience: Why do you think that British people should lose freedom of movement rights? Which other rights would you personally like to give up?

 

[EM2]

Was anybody sure what remain meant.

Some talked about remaining but reforming the EU from within to be more to our liking.
Others talked about remaining but maintaining so many opt outs we would finish up more like Norway.
Others talked about full speed ahead into a United States of Europe.

To talk as if only leave had several options is simply untrue.

Do you have links? Or any quotes?

 

[furnessvale]

Do you have links? Or any quotes?

Plenty on Google but if you are claiming there was only one, united, version of remain, please tell me which one it was.

 

[burneside]

Except they didn't. Because even the official campaigns were all saying different things. The quote about Daniel Hannan about "no-one is talking about leaving the single market" is not the only one.

One thing is totally certain, that the leave voters did not want to remain in the EU as it stands. Cameron had touted his begging bowl around the EU leaders and came back with virtually nothing. As far as I was concerned the only other option was to wave goodbye to Brussels, and it seems 17.4 million thought along the same lines.

 

[Trog]

To my memory neither side made a decent case for their point of view and the country was left to vote on gut feel.

 

[EM2]

Plenty on Google but if you are claiming there was only one, united, version of remain, please tell me which one it was.

Er, to remain members of the European Union?

 

[burneside]

Absolute nonsense. I have pointed to a reference dated 18th July 2015 where Nigel Farage - the leader of UKIP - suggests that countries such as "Norway, Iceland and Switzerland" are "confident nations grasping the opportunities that a global perspective presents". Please point to an unambiguous reference dated between 18th July 2015 and 24th June 2016 where Nigel Farage - the leader of UKIP - explains that he has changed his mind. Also I will need to see references from other significant leave campaigners.

Alternative facts are not good enough.

Also, I'm not going to let you off the hook with my other questions. I will repeat them here for your convenience: Why do you think that British people should lose freedom of movement rights? Which other rights would you personally like to give up?

Once we leave the EU then it's a different world, rights we had before will not necessarily exist, and likewise hundreds of millions of people will not have the automatic right to reside in the UK. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

 

[furnessvale]

Er, to remain members of the European Union?

Yes, and 52% voted to leave.

 

[WelshBluebird]

One thing is totally certain, that the leave voters did not want to remain in the EU as it stands. Cameron had touted his begging bowl around the EU leaders and came back with virtually nothing. As far as I was concerned the only other option was to wave goodbye to Brussels, and it seems 17.4 million thought along the same lines.

I love how you think you can speak for over 17 million people!

As has already been said, that 17 million was made up of some people who didn't really want to leave or care but wanted the chance to stick a finger up to politicians for a start. And that is before you get to those who wanted an EEA type deal etc.

 

[burneside]

I love how you think you can speak for over 17 million people!

As has already been said, that 17 million was made up of some people who didn't really want to leave or care but wanted the chance to stick a finger up to politicians for a start. And that is before you get to those who wanted an EEA type deal etc.

And you are now claiming to know the minds of the 17.4 million leave voters.

 

[EM2]

Yes, and 52% voted to leave.

Wait, 52% of Remain voters voted to Leave? :-?

 

[WelshBluebird]

And you are now claiming to know the minds of the 17.4 million leave voters.

Nope. I am simply stating that those 17.4 will have voted leave for various reasons. Some of those reasons were not actually about leaving the EU, while others of those reasons were a lot more nuanced than just "lets leave and tell Brussels where to stick it".

 

[furnessvale]

Wait, 52% of Remain voters voted to Leave? :-?

Ha Ha, lost the argument have you?

 

[Trog]

I love how you think you can speak for over 17 million people!

As has already been said, that 17 million was made up of some people who didn't really want to leave or care but wanted the chance to stick a finger up to politicians for a start. And that is before you get to those who wanted an EEA type deal etc.

And yet you can, is that because as a remoaner you are so much cleverer than the fools who voted out?

 

[anme]

Ha Ha, lost the argument have you?

Yes, we remain supporters lost the argument about whether to remain in the EU. We didn't yet have the argument about whether to remain in the single market. That's the issue here.

 

[anme]

Once we leave the EU then it's a different world, rights we had before will not necessarily exist, and likewise hundreds of millions of people will not have the automatic right to reside in the UK. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

And it really sucks. As I've advised before, British people should now plan to leave the island while they still can.

 

[EM2]

Was anybody sure what remain meant.

Some talked about remaining but reforming the EU from within to be more to our liking.
Others talked about remaining but maintaining so many opt outs we would finish up more like Norway.
Others talked about full speed ahead into a United States of Europe.

To talk as if only leave had several options is simply untrue.

Do you have links? Or any quotes?

Plenty on Google but if you are claiming there was only one, united, version of remain, please tell me which one it was.

Er, to remain members of the European Union?

Yes, and 52% voted to leave.

Wait, 52% of Remain voters voted to Leave? :-?

Ha Ha, lost the argument have you?

No, it wasn't me that came out with a nonsensical reply.

You asked what the 'one, united, version of remain' was.
I supplied it.
And then you said '52% voted to leave'.

From that, one can only surmise that you meant 52% of Remain (as that was what was being discussed).

 

[Trog]

And it really sucks. As I've advised before, British people should now plan to leave the island while they still can.

It is really starting to bug me as to where you are coming from.....
As some of the things you write suggest, as in above suggest that it is not the UK.


Which leaves the question where and why you seem to have such a chip on your shoulder about it.


French upset that France changing from a net beneficiary, to a net payer into the EU budget will affect your CAP subsidy.

Really don't seem to like that the UK had a successful past, therefore comes from a country that failed to establish an empire of its own or with a small empire that was a hell hole that makes the British Empire look good in comparison. Germany or Belgium, possibly Italy.

Norway the well known home of Trolls.


I am sure the others can come up with some other perhaps more amusing suggestions.

 

[Howardh]

Let me see if I've got this right.

Our PM is now in the US begging and grovelling for trade, so we would be trading with a country whose president believes in torture (and therefore extracting false confessions from innocents possibly resulting in the death penalty) and building a wall and charging another country for it (despite the country being so poor in the first place the wall is to be built to stop them emigrating)??

And they are supposed to be a developed nation??

Just how much lower can Brexit sink??

On the positive side, people might begin to realise just how difficult it is in the rest of the world, and maybe after all we are better off in the security of the EU? But Brexiters seem to be so blind to the obvious that I'm not holding my breath.

 

[anme]

It is really starting to bug me as to where you are coming from.....
As some of the things you write suggest, as in above suggest that it is not the UK.


Which leaves the question where and why you seem to have such a chip on your shoulder about it.


French upset that France changing from a net beneficiary, to a net payer into the EU budget will affect your CAP subsidy.

Really don't seem to like that the UK had a successful past, therefore comes from a country that failed to establish an empire of its own or with a small empire that was a hell hole that makes the British Empire look good in comparison. Germany or Belgium, possibly Italy.

Norway the well known home of Trolls.


I am sure the others can come up with some other perhaps more amusing suggestions.

Suggestions are always welcome, of course, but I don't see what business it is of yours. Why do you think it matters where someone comes from? To me it seems like a very small detail. What "chip" do you think I have on my shoulder?

Also, you refer to one of my points from earlier. You say that the UK had a successful past. This is true in some respects, of course, and I assume by this you are referring to the British empire, as I was writing about imperialism. Do you really think the British empire was a good thing? It seems to me a really strange thing for Theresa May to refer to on the world stage when she's trying to find some friends for the UK.

I stand by what I said about recommending British people to leave the UK now, if they don't like the look of things to come. Don't you agree? As we discussed above, the British will probably soon lose the right to live and work in most nearby countries. If you don't go now, you may not be able to in future.

 

[EM2]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...o-pick-dublin-as-eu-headquarters-after-brexit

Barclays Picks Dublin as Post-Brexit EU Headquarters

Barclays Plc has settled on Dublin for its main hub inside the European Union after Brexit and is planning to add about 150 staff there if U.K.-based finance companies lose easy access to the trading bloc, according to people with knowledge of the decision.

The bank started scouting the city for office space this month and has been in contact with Irish regulators about expanding its operations, said the people, who asked not to be identified because the plans aren’t public. Barclays is moving ahead with contingency plans so it can continue serving EU clients if Prime Minister Theresa May fails to strike a transitional or permanent deal preserving London’s access within the two-year renegotiation period.

“We have made clear repeatedly that we will plan for a range of Brexit contingencies, including building greater capacity into our existing operations in Dublin,” the bank said in a statement. “Identifying available office space is a necessary and predictable part of that contingency planning process.”

International banks have started to reveal more about their plans to shift jobs and set up offices within the EU after May indicated last week she’ll pull Britain out of the single market and pursue other arrangements. Financial firms, and their clients, are most concerned about a "cliff edge" Brexit, whereby all access is cut off after two years. Ireland has been seeking to lure banks based in Britain by presenting itself as a low-tax, English-speaking location with similar laws, regulations and “passporting” rights, enabling them to sell services across the EU.

Credit Suisse Group AG is also exploring options to expand in Dublin, people familiar with that bank’s plans said. The lender made the city its primary hub for servicing hedge funds in Europe last year, when Irish Prime Minister Enda Kenny opened the firm’s trading floor. The Swiss bank may have to get regulatory approval to upgrade its branch to a full subsidiary, whereas Barclays already has that status.

Dublin is emerging as a favored location for Credit Suisse’s so-called back-office jobs, said one of the people. The Zurich-based bank also is considering cities including Frankfurt as it develops Brexit plans for moving jobs, said the person.

Barclays staff moved to or hired in Dublin could include senior managers, derivatives specialists, currency traders, compliance and human resources staff, one of the people said. Executives haven’t decided when employees will be moved or new hires made, with the timescale determined by how negotiations progress after Article 50 is triggered at the end of March, starting the formal two-year exit process.

The lender already has about 100 employees in the Ireland division, which is run by Sasha Wiggins from its office in the city center. Barclays also has a banking license in France, a branch in Germany and many legal entities in Luxembourg, according to company filings. A spokesman declined to comment on its European staffing plans.

Standard Chartered Plc has also approached Irish officials about making Dublin its legal base inside the EU, people familiar with its discussions said in December. Citigroup Inc. is evaluating the capital along with other cities, European regional chief Jim Cowles said this week, while Lloyds Banking Group Plc is set to establish its EU headquarters in Frankfurt.