Trouble up North - Car Parking.

[mwmbwls]

Over the years, travelling into Manchester and Liverpool I cannot help but notice that station car parks are getting fuller and fuller earlier in the day as motorists frustrated by city centre and motorway congestion are adopting a strategy of park and ride. In some places, such as Appely Bridge street parking is the only viable option causing disruption to the local community. Am I alone in observing this phenomena?

Hazel Grove has a new double deck car park - (seen here before opening) which I pass twice a week travelling between Manchester and Sheffield - this seems to be getter fuller faster.

Wigan North Western and Preston have had multi-story structures for sometime comparable with similar large structures in the south such as this example at Hatfield

Hatfield is primarily a commuter station rather an inter-city one but as the agglomerated Northern economy builds extra parking at stations will become more important. Could this be the shape of things to come - if so where?

Can Forum members cite examples of (a) particularly difficult stations to park at? As a starter for 10, I give you Upholland.

Can Forum members cite examples of station car parks that have been expanded but are still not sufficient to meet demand?

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Certainly Helsby is facing problems. The small car park fills very early, followed by the main village car park and then of course on the main road. This is only for commuters travelling to Manchester and possibly Chester. Later this year the Halton Curve will be modified with services to Liverpool available in 2018. Forward thinking now on car parking amy help alleviate many of the issues you are covering in your OP.

 

[Clip]

I remember when they had to add another layer onto the one at Beaconsfield - easy enough job but frustrating for commuters as sections had to be closed off at a time but it is possible.

 

[mildertduck]

Garforth can be a bit hit and miss... the car park there is huge, but is often full, especially on commuter days.

 

[The Lad]

Burnley Manchester Road had 5 spaces until the recent rebuilding and now has about 50, only the disabled spaces are available after 8.30. Todmorden got an extended car park with few if any new spaces due to the need to reach the track access point. Also full by 8.30.

 

[superkev]

All the Calder Valley car parks are full by 7.30 or earlier.
The bays at Hebden Bridge must have been measured using the same ruler as Northerns seat pitch as its often impossible to get out of your car.
K

 

[Puffing Devil]

Goostrey. Small, village station with enough capacity for the village. Free parking for rail users.

Holmes Chapel station car park, 2.5 miles by road, implements parking charges.

I wonder what could possibly have happened?

 

[Old Yard Dog]

The Ellesmere Port branch has parking problems.

Ellesmere Port station itself has a huge car free park, but hardly anybody uses it because it is unsupervised and has a reputation for being unsafe.

Overpool has no car park and I wouldn't want to park in the surrounding streets

There are a couple of small car parks in Little Sutton village but these fill quickly.

Therefore most motorists drive to Hooton. This is a staffed station with a massive supervised car park which only costs 80p a day. It also has much cheaper fares than stations down the branch as it is counted as part of Merseyside for ticketing purposes even though it is in Cheshire. Hooton also has more frequent trains to Liverpool and direct trains to Chester.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Mirfield is a problem area, with residents unhappy with the inconsiderate on-street parking by rail users once the small car park is full. Denby Dale has only 8 spaces or so, which means 6 days a week there's a long line of parked cars down the approach road and on the now disused side of the bus turning circle. Batley is another where demand > supply, though luckily the area immediately surrounding the station is a bit of a ghost town so no noses to be put out of joint.

 

[Bantamzen]

Car parking is going to be more and more of an issue as time goes on. Many of the Aire and Wharfe stations already have limited spaces, and with serious overflows onto surrounding streets. Worse still some whilst having large car parks are situated on very busy roads, meaning that accessing them and getting the train on time can be a gamble, meaning that some drivers set off earlier thus extending the length of the peak congestion.

This is where (dare I say it) some joined up thinking is needed. Where large flows from surrounding exist through stations with limited or regularly full car parking spaces, some form of bus / shuttle service with through ticketing would possibly help both ease congestion and get people to their trains on time. Then I remember what country we live in.....

 

[lejog]

All the Calder Valley car parks are full by 7.30 or earlier.
The bays at Hebden Bridge must have been measured using the same ruler as Northerns seat pitch as its often impossible to get out of your car.
K

I have no problems with the width of the bays at Hebden. Have you missed this post made 3 days ago, Hebden Bridge is set to get 80 extra spaces and Mytholmroyd a completely new car park with 200 spaces, more than tripling the number of car parking spaces at the two stations.

There are also to be new car parks at Shipley, Steeton & Silsden, Mirfield, Normanton and Fitzwilliam.

 

[lejog]

Mirfield is a problem area, with residents unhappy with the inconsiderate on-street parking by rail users once the small car park is full.

Mirfield is set to get 89 new parking spaces.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Mirfield is set to get 89 new parking spaces.

I'd heard plans were afoot but that's all. Any idea where these new places will be? Perhaps that's what the building work is that's going on between the canal and the Network Rail compound?

Of course with an increase in services to come there, those extra spaces will be swallowed up very quickly! Denby Dale in my last post has inflated usage (like Hooton) due to being the boundary PTE station, with the added complication of being the first/last station for two neighbouring PTEs. As a result Huddersfield residents heading to Barnsley or Sheffield may use it, as do outer Barnsley-based students heading to Huddersfield University.

 

[northwichcat]

Hartford is always full (unless you arrive very early.) The owner of the Coachman pub nearby allows their car park to be used as overflow parking (for a charge paid directly to them.)

Wilmslow is often full and has both taxis and cars who are picking up arriving passengers regularly blocking the road meaning bus services which serve the station can't get through. Drivers of both cars and taxis ignore the cones put out to ensure the bus route is kept clear.

In general the north needs more frequent and higher quality rolling stock on local services so that people are encouraged to use connecting services rather than 'railheading.'

 

[Buck Shaw]

Buckshaw regularly fills up before 8am (although comment on the local facebook page reckons that is partly due to call centre workers nearby using it as their car park isn't big enough) and idiots park on both sides of the access road, leading to the bus company pulling out of serving the station as they cannot access it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are people in the North happy to pay fees like in the South (up to £10 per day) to ensure quality parking provision?


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[lejog]

I'd heard plans were afoot but that's all. Any idea where these new places will be? Perhaps that's what the building work is that's going on between the canal and the Network Rail compound?

No idea - but a quick google suggests that the 89 space car park is actually in addition to a 115 space car park already underway, although the Huddersfield Examiner's reporting is its usual muddled standard. The WYCTA plan involves the eviction of a Network Rail tenant, if that helps.

One scheme underway has already drawn up plans for 115 spaces, while another plans for 89 spaces at the site, where overspilling commuters are currently forced to park on both sides of Station Road causing a headache for local motorists.

 

[lejog]

Are people in the North happy to pay fees like in the South (up to £10 per day) to ensure quality parking provision?

That's a good question. There was an uproar when increased parking fees were suggested as a means of reducing Northern's subsidy and instead we got fare increases (in the shape of evening peak restrictions being introduced in PTE areas).

The new WYCTA schemes provide around 820 spaces at a cost of £14m - a cool £17k each on average and none of them involve land purchase.

 

[superkev]

I have no problems with the width of the bays at Hebden. Have you missed this post made 3 days ago, Hebden Bridge is set to get 80 extra spaces and Mytholmroyd a completely new car park with 200 spaces, more than tripling the number of car parking spaces at the two stations.

There are also to be new car parks at Shipley, Steeton & Silsden, Mirfield, Normanton and Fitzwilliam.

If you have no problem with the Hebden Bridge bay width I think perhaps you have a motor bike. My golf is not the widest car and unless its a small car next I can't get out. Abyone with a 4 by 4 forget it.
K

 

[Dr Hoo]

Chinley is full quite early in the morning peak with very little alternative legal or considerate parking around the village.
Chapel-en-le-Frith on the Buxton line is a partial alternative from various villages in the area but obviously the choice of destinations is rather different if you aren't heading for Manchester Piccadilly.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

That's a good question. There was an uproar when increased parking fees were suggested as a means of reducing Northern's subsidy and instead we got fare increases (in the shape of evening peak restrictions being introduced in PTE areas).

The new WYCTA schemes provide around 820 spaces at a cost of £14m - a cool £17k each on average and none of them involve land purchase.

The issue with charging for parking at unmanned stations is enforcement, and the costs incurred in doing so. Perhaps Metro/Northern realised this when deciding whether to implement it?

 

[Iskra]

Are people in the North happy to pay fees like in the South (up to £10 per day) to ensure quality parking provision?


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They pay more than that at Leeds station, and have been happily almost filling the Wakefield Westgate multistorey at £10 a day for years now. We don't need another North/South thread.

Best station for parking: Garsdale miles of free on street parking to go at.

 

[northwichcat]

Are people in the North happy to pay fees like in the South (up to £10 per day) to ensure quality parking provision?

I'm sure the users of station car parks in Crewe, Stockport and Warrington would be very happy with a reduction in the daily charge so that it is £10 or less.

 

[northwichcat]

That's a good question. There was an uproar when increased parking fees were suggested as a means of reducing Northern's subsidy and instead we got fare increases (in the shape of evening peak restrictions being introduced in PTE areas).

The new WYCTA schemes provide around 820 spaces at a cost of £14m - a cool £17k each on average and none of them involve land purchase.

It was actually an end to free car parks funded by PTEs which the PTEs rejected. However, apparently when DfT said the alternative was evening peak restrictions TfGM wanted to backtrack on car park charges but Metro wanted the evening peak restrictions.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The issue with charging for parking at unmanned stations is enforcement, and the costs incurred in doing so. Perhaps Metro/Northern realised this when deciding whether to implement it?

There are a million and one contracting firms who will stick some signs up then drive round and slap tickets on cars in return for keeping the "fines" they get to dish out. As most people park at the station all day, it's not at all hard to catch most of them. You wouldn't even have to do it daily for people to know it was not an empty threat.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It was actually an end to free car parks funded by PTEs which the PTEs rejected. However, apparently when DfT said the alternative was evening peak restrictions TfGM wanted to backtrack on car park charges but Metro wanted the evening peak restrictions.

While the implementation is bad, I would suggest that given the overcrowding levels in the Northern area the solution should actually have been split between both. Or the car parking should have become chargeable, but the money spent on improving the car parks.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm sure the users of station car parks in Crewe, Stockport and Warrington would be very happy with a reduction in the daily charge so that it is £10 or less.

Fair point - but the norm on Northern and Merseyrail is free car parks, and I see no reason why that needs to continue.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They pay more than that at Leeds station, and have been happily almost filling the Wakefield Westgate multistorey at £10 a day for years now. We don't need another North/South thread.

This isn't so much a north-south argument issue, but an issue of comparing the situation. The south has many stations with extensive car parking, but for that premium service it is necessary to pay a premium price to encourage such provision by making it profitable (or at least break-even). The north has stations with largely inadequate car parking, and there is no motivation to solve this because there is very little income to be derived from it. The disparity, and solution, seems completely obvious to me.

 

[lejog]

This isn't so much a north-south argument issue, but an issue of comparing the situation. The south has many stations with extensive car parking, but for that premium service it is necessary to pay a premium price to encourage such provision by making it profitable (or at least break-even). The north has stations with largely inadequate car parking, and there is no motivation to solve this because there is very little income to be derived from it. The disparity, and solution, seems completely obvious to me.

I'm not sure if its motivation, but its more difficult to get a business case to spend £20k on a parking space to stack up, if revenue is zero as opposed to revenue of £2k a year.

 

[northwichcat]

Fair point - but the norm on Northern and Merseyrail is free car parks, and I see no reason why that needs to continue.

I wouldn't say the 'norm is free parking' with Northern. I would say the norm is free parking at PTE managed car parks and at small rural stations (though not all small rural stations have parking facilities.)

In Cheshire East if you use a Northern managed station car park you can expect to pay the same as you'd pay for 4 hours in a council managed car park in the same town, except on Sundays when council managed car parks are free and Northern charge their usual daily rate.