Jeremy Corbyn & Tom Watson elected leader and deputy leader of the Labour Party

[northwichcat]

Corbyn openly stated this week that he supported the Southern Rail strikes. This type of language coming from a Party leader aspiring to be a future Prime Minister is a disgrace. He should be trying to persuade people to go back to work. Even if he is so passionate about his views on the matter, in his position, he should keep his thoughts to himself if he is unable to condemn the action.

The RMT claim Corbyn backed their stance to block the de-staffing of stations and DOO for the Northern franchise. Yet if Corbyn had done some research he would have realised the RMT's claim of de-staffing of stations was out-dated and had been dismissed in the consultation process and that DOO had been replaced with DCO which is better for passenger safety even if the union claims DOO and DCO are the same thing.

 

[Railops]

Today at PMQ's Corbyn informed the house of commons that he offered his condolences to the police officer who lost his life in Northern Ireland.
The officer in question was shot 3 times in the arm, is not dead and is not in danger so this is a monumental and unforgivable mistake.
A group calling themselves the New IRA have claimed responsibility.
A dedicated and lifelong IRA supporter buggering up a tribute to a Northern Ireland police officer shot on duty is I suppose what you might expect from Corbyn.

To think is some circles he's seen as a future pm.

 

[jon0844]

I saw something about this on Twitter, but I assume he was very badly advised? I think it could happen to anyone, and suspect it has happened to many people.

I don't see him as a future PM. In fact, despite people somehow thinking that because Trump got in, he could now win, I think he has never had and never will have a chance.

For one, people are moving more to the right. If Corbyn defected to UKIP and started to talk about sending people home, yes, he might then have a chance.

 

[Railops]

I saw something about this on Twitter, but I assume he was very badly advised? I think it could happen to anyone, and suspect it has happened to many people.

I don't see him as a future PM. In fact, despite people somehow thinking that because Trump got in, he could now win, I think he has never had and never will have a chance.

For one, people are moving more to the right. If Corbyn defected to UKIP and started to talk about sending people home, yes, he might then have a chance.

Badly advised doesn't cut it I'm afraid.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Today at PMQ's Corbyn informed the house of commons that he offered his condolences to the police officer who lost his life in Northern Ireland.
The officer in question was shot 3 times in the arm, is not dead and is not in danger so this is a monumental and unforgivable mistake.
A group calling themselves the New IRA have claimed responsibility.
A dedicated and lifelong IRA supporter buggering up a tribute to a Northern Ireland police officer shot on duty is I suppose what you might expect from Corbyn.

To think is some circles he's seen as a future pm.

Thoughts to the policeman who was shot and his family. There is no excuse for this kind of awful violence/terrorism/whatever you want to call it, and I hope those responsible will be caught as soon as possible.

I notice that you describe it as a 'monumental and unforgivable mistake' that someone would have their facts wrong when offering condolences about this event, but you offer no condemnation of the fact that the officer was shot in the first place. Personally I think the shooting is orders of magnitude worse than someone being mistaken about what happened. I guess I have somewhat different values from you

(Though, for clarity, I do think that a responsible leader of the opposition ought to take a bit more care with his facts before standing up and speaking in the Commons).

 

[jon0844]

I'm amazed this is such a big story - not just here but all over social media and other forums. I am sure the police officer and family aren't going to be too upset. TV news and papers have a history of reporting fatality numbers that go DOWN as time goes on. It happens.

A cock up, yes. Embarrassing, yes. A reason to bash Corbyn (when there are so many other ways), no.

 

[me123]

I think it's quite disturbing that people are using this tragedy as political point scoring, rather than recognising that Corbyn had his heart in the right place, albeit making a silly error.

There's plenty of ammunition to use against Corbyn. This isn't the most relevant or even effective choice.

 

[Busaholic]

I think it's quite disturbing that people are using this tragedy as political point scoring, rather than recognising that Corbyn had his heart in the right place, albeit making a silly error.

There's plenty of ammunition to use against Corbyn. This isn't the most relevant or even effective choice.

Agreed.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Another lackluster performance by Jeremy Corbyn at PMQ's. And he's still not able to communicate what our policy on Brexit is. I'm afraid that the party is in the most awful mess.

 

[AlterEgo]

Today at PMQ's Corbyn informed the house of commons that he offered his condolences to the police officer who lost his life in Northern Ireland.
The officer in question was shot 3 times in the arm, is not dead and is not in danger so this is a monumental and unforgivable mistake.
A group calling themselves the New IRA have claimed responsibility.
A dedicated and lifelong IRA supporter buggering up a tribute to a Northern Ireland police officer shot on duty is I suppose what you might expect from Corbyn.

To think is some circles he's seen as a future pm.

I can think of worse things.

Like using the shooting of a police officer for political point scoring with hopelessly desperate, and tiresome rhetoric.

Corbyn is a w****r but he isn't as bad as people like you who jump up and down, using this incident to make a political point. Some of us have connections to NI, and long family memories of just how FANTASTIC it used to be when people climbed over each other to make political games out of violence.

It might be better to reflect on the injured police officer.

Shame on you.

 

[northwichcat]

A group calling themselves the New IRA have claimed responsibility.
A dedicated and lifelong IRA supporter buggering up a tribute to a Northern Ireland police officer shot on duty is I suppose what you might expect from Corbyn.

Which IRA does Corbyn support though?

The original IRA tried to get independence for Ireland from a British government who'd treated them badly to which the British response was to send across army members to execute supporters and make the executions look like they had been done by the IRA for betrayal to the group.

More recent (different) groups calling themselves the IRA have been responsible for attempting to kill Margaret Thatcher and blowing up the Arndale Centre in Manchester. Although, the British response has sometimes been questionable e.g. when Thatcher authorised the illegal killing of 3 IRA members who had travelled to Gibraltar and were believed to planning a terrorist activity and after Thames Television broke the story they didn't have an ITV franchise for much longer.

 

[Hornet]

Which IRA does Corbyn support though?

The original IRA tried to get independence for Ireland from a British government who'd treated them badly to which the British response was to send across army members to execute supporters and make the executions look like they had been done by the IRA for betrayal to the group.

More recent (different) groups calling themselves the IRA have been responsible for attempting to kill Margaret Thatcher and blowing up the Arndale Centre in Manchester. Although, the British response has sometimes been questionable e.g. when Thatcher authorised the illegal killing of 3 IRA members who had travelled to Gibraltar and were believed to planning a terrorist activity and after Thames Television broke the story they didn't have an ITV franchise for much longer.

"The IRB planned the 1916 Rising; the Irish Volunteers and the Irish Citizen Army made it possible."

http://www.irishrepublicanbrotherhood.ie/history-irb.html

No mention of the IRA there.

Corbyn sympathised with the aims of Sinn Fein/IRA. He is well used to making crass judgments of error. He invited Gerry Adams to Westminster shortly after the bombing of a Brighton hotel, by the IRA, where Tory party MP's and members were staying. I vividly remember the news coverage of Norman Tebbit being brought out of the rubble. His wife was paralysed as a result of that bomb.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-29537692

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It appears that poor judgement has been a long-standing problem with Jeremy Corbyn.

 

[northwichcat]

"The IRB planned the 1916 Rising; the Irish Volunteers and the Irish Citizen Army made it possible."

http://www.irishrepublicanbrotherhood.ie/history-irb.html

Which became the original IRA in 1919: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army_(1919–22)

(With the Anglo-Irish Treaty being signed in December 1921:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Irish_Treaty)

And then there was a second IRA formed in 1922: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army_(1922–69)

And more recently:
Continuity IRA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_Irish_Republican_Army
Official IRA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Irish_Republican_Army
Provisional IRA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army
Real IRA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Irish_Republican_Army

 

[miami]

And more recently:
Continuity IRA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_Irish_Republican_Army
Official IRA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Irish_Republican_Army
Provisional IRA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army
Real IRA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Irish_Republican_Army

People's Front of Judea
Judean People's Front

 

[AlterEgo]

People's Front of Judea
Judean People's Front

There's also, more recently, "New IRA".

Many people say they prefer IRA Classic.

I'll get my coat.

 

[Hornet]

Which became the original IRA in 1919: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army_(1919–22)

(With the Anglo-Irish Treaty being signed in December 1921:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Irish_Treaty)

And then there was a second IRA formed in 1922: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army_(1922–69)

And more recently:
Continuity IRA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_Irish_Republican_Army
Official IRA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Irish_Republican_Army
Provisional IRA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army
Real IRA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Irish_Republican_Army

A more authoritative link regards Irish History than Wiki. (Wiki is a source I do not trust).

http://www.theirishstory.com/

My other half who is a Dub, recommended this to me. Also it helped to live here (in Dublin) last year, whilst the Centenary of the Easter Uprising was celebrated. There was a wealth of info on the IRB, the Irish Volunteers, (which effectively morphed into the IRA) and Sinn Fein, and also how the British Government managed to turn a population, which was by and large against the insurgency in April 1916, to one that supported the overthrow of British rule, and not wait for the provisions of the Government of Ireland Bill (1914) to be enacted. An object lesson in what happens if you do not take on board people's concerns, and demonise, (execute) their leaders.

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1914/jun/29/government-of-ireland-bill

It would be wise for Corbyn to brush up on his N.I. brief, with what is happening up North, with regards to the collapsed executive, and the forthcoming election. It ain't gonna be pretty!

 

[FordFocus]

Putting aside the chance of the media attacking him on any minor mistake made and giving Theresa May a free ticket to do anything, I believe Corbyn's time is up. I voted for him twice firstly for a change in direction the party needed as an alternative to the Conservatives and the second time because I hated the way the PLP behaved. For them to force a second election of leader only for Owen Smith to be the alternative was laughable.

Copeland is going to be one of the most interesting by-elections in recent years. West Cumbria is an area that needs the nuclear industry, if not the only industry that keeps the local economy going. There are proposals for the Moorside Nuclear Power Station that would massively boost the Copeland and surrounding areas. Corbyn had an interview recently (I think with ITV or BBC) on whether he backs the plant. He doesn't provide a direct answer but instead kept saying he recognises the need for a mixture of nuclear and renewable. A non answer doesn't help Labour in a key by-election like this.

What may save Corbyn and Labour is the candidate choice seems the right one that ticks the boxes. A local councillor, a former NHS Doctor and pledges to save services that are under threat at the West Cumberland Hospital from Tory cuts.

The bookies think the Tories will get it and they have reported to have given up on Stoke to flood Whitehaven and Copeland with supporters to win this.

Not sure about Stoke. Paul Nuttall isn't from the area, hasn't had much air time from what I've seen since his election and now that Brexit is in motion I doubt UKIP chances.

 

[northwichcat]

The bookies think the Tories will get it and they have reported to have given up on Stoke to flood Whitehaven and Copeland with supporters to win this.

Not sure about Stoke. Paul Nuttall isn't from the area, hasn't had much air time from what I've seen since his election and now that Brexit is in motion I doubt UKIP chances.

Comparing the 2010 and 2015 results I'd guess that some people who voted for both the Conservatives and Labour in 2010 switched to UKIP but disgruntled Lib Dems switched to Conservative and Labour in 2015, meaning UKIP gained a lot of votes but neither the Conservatives or Labour lost many votes.

Labour have chosen Gareth Snell (former leader of Newcastle council), while the Conservatives and Lib Dems have chosen local people to stand. The Conservatives have chosen a 25 year old to stand, which may put some people off.

 

[northwichcat]

Corbyn will have no shadow cabinet again soon (except obviously McDonnell and Abbott.)

Jo Stevens has quit as Jeremy Corbyn's shadow Welsh secretary after he forced Labour MPs to back the Article 50 bill.

The Cardiff Central MP said she believed Brexit was "a terrible mistake" and said she "cannot reconcile my overwhelming view" that to endorse the bill would make it inevitable.

She is the first member of the shadow cabinet to quit over the issue.

Party leader Mr Corbyn said MPs in pro-EU constituencies were "understandably torn" over the vote.

Her resignation follows that of Tulip Siddiq, who quit as shadow early years minister on Thursday after the Labour leadership imposed a "three-line whip".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38768383

 

[AlterEgo]

What a complete ****less joke the Labour Party is.

 

[Busaholic]

It appears that poor judgement has been a long-standing problem with Jeremy Corbyn.

He's never changed his views though - more's the pity, some would say. The membership knew what they were getting (twice.)

 

[northwichcat]

Here are the key figures that show the size of the Labour rebellion tonight.

47 Labour MPs defied the whip and voted against the article 50 bill on second reading. That’s 20% of the parliamentary party.

Three members of the shadow cabinet resigned so that the could vote against the bill. They are: Jo Stevens, the shadow Welsh secretary, Rachael Maskell, the shadow environment secretary, and Dawn Butler, shadow minister for BME communities.

Four frontbenchers resigned so they could vote against the bill. They are the three shadow cabinet ministers and Tulip Siddiq, who was shadow early years minister.

Another nine shadow ministers voted against the bill but so far have not resigned. The nine shadow ministers are: Kevin Brennan (culture), Ruth Cadbury (housing), Alan Whitehead (energy), Rupa Huq (crime prevention), Stephen Pound (Northern Ireland), Andy Slaughter (housing), Catherine West (Foreign Office), Daniel Zeichner (transport) and Roena Allin-Khan (culture).

And three whips also voted against bull but have so far not resigned. They are Thangam Debonnaire, Vicky Foxcroft and Jeff Smith.

A total of 16 Labour frontbenchers (shadow ministers and whips) either resigned over the vote or defied the whip.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...he-quit-as-uks-ambassador-to-eu-politics-live

 

[Busaholic]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...he-quit-as-uks-ambassador-to-eu-politics-live

No Clive Lewis on that list - biding his time before a leadership bid post Copeland and Stoke?

 

[northwichcat]

Ladbrookes currently have the Conservatives as favourites to win the Copeland by-election, with Labour the favourites for Stoke Central (by a very small margin.)

 

[DarloRich]

Ladbrookes currently have the Conservatives as favourites to win the Copeland by-election, with Labour the favourites for Stoke Central (by a very small margin.)

Clownbyn wont quit. His clueless, deluded, clown army of zealots and fellow travelers keeps him in position screeching about mandates and Blairist plots while the party slides into the electoral abyss - but then that is what they want.

 

[fowler9]

Clownbyn wont quit. His clueless, deluded, clown army of zealots and fellow travelers keeps him in position screeching about mandates and Blairist plots while the party slides into the electoral abyss - but then that is what they want.

Apparently you are wrong! Ha ha. Labour should have another neo liberal leader just like the Tories in charge in no time. Ratings will go up and nothing will change.

 

[DarloRich]

Apparently you are wrong! Ha ha. Labour should have another neo liberal leader just like the Tories in charge in no time. Ratings will go up and nothing will change.

I don't really care what "badge" the leader is given just that he has polices a personality that give him or her even a slim chance of winning an election. Corbyn lacks any credibility with the wider electorate and has no chance of winning an election.

I guarantee that nothing will change with Corbyn in charge because he cant win an election and without power all the protests and connections with the grass roots democratic movement bullpap or the mandate or any other guff is meaningless. The people who should be able to expect our support as a party will continue to be failed and the poorest and most vulnerable in society will continue to be the victims of Tory policy.

But then that is what many Corbynians seem to want - they care more about right on positioning and proving how anti Tory they are rather than winning an election and actually changing things. But then that needs compromise and a relaxation of principles, something the SWP types supporting Clownbyn find impossible. Declining opposition and shouting into the void is what they like.

 

[DarloRich]

Stoke Central - Held more although the incompetence of UKIP and their alternative truth spreading leader than a broad acceptance of the Cobynian policy agenda

Copeland: Lost. A solid labour area since the 1930s, somewhere the governing party plan to close the hospital and maternity unit and has suffered great public service cuts. Votes Tory. Lost by Corbyn

Corbyn - Go. Now.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Copeland was an extremely long held seat by the Labour Party, more that a decade prior to my birth. The result of this by-election showed:-

Conservative.....13,748....44.2% of the vote (up by 8.5%)
Labour..............11,601....37.3% of the vote (down by 4.9%)

Swing from Labour to the Conservative....6.7%