Train v National Express Coach v Plane

[GusB]

NatEx has come on greatly in recent years, one of the biggest improvements being the introduction of a bespoke, standard coach design to be used across the network; the Caetano Levante. Almost every vehicle on NatEx work is now identical (a small number of Plaxton machines can be seen, but they're in a tiny minority), meaning standards and expectations are maintained. In years gone by, considerable numbers of non-NatEx vehicles tended to be the norm...

My "golden age" of coach travel was in the early 90s, mainly on Scottish Citylink and Caledonian Express services between Aberdeen and Edinburgh, and it was often pot luck whether or not you had a decent vehicle. Some contractors kept tidy fleets, while others didn't seem to care. Tayside Travel, which was formed to take over the original Stagecoach express services had a very mixed bag of coaches at the time.

However, there was some effort to standardise the NatEx fleet back then - the Expressliner. My first (and it will be the last!) trip from Aberdeen to London was on these coaches. I thought they were comfortable enough at the time, and you knew what you were getting.

I don't think my back would be able to cope with such an overnight trip these days, but I was a student at the time and without the coach-card discount I wouldn't have been able to travel at all. I certainly wouldn't have been able to afford to travel by train.

70mph (officially) and outside-lane running was still permitted on the motorways back then, so it was rather more exhilarating. Happy days!

 

[furnessvale]

They're valid on any service that is a registered local bus service, which in some cases is whole routes (registered in sections), and in others is parts of routes. Acceptance is required as a condition of claiming BSOG, which is the whole reason NatEx register some sections of some routes.

Express services are also registered as stage carriage in some areas so the operator can claim a rebate on fuel costs.

It may not be currently relevant, but the express service from Inverness to Wick/Thurso used to be a stage carriage for that reason which enabled it to further undercut rail.

There are so few passengers out in the sticks in such areas that there was no detriment to timekeeping.

 

[Lrd]

I didn't know they operated that one, I'm sure that's operated by South Gloucestershire Bus & Coach with a couple of extras run by someone else, unless it has changed recently.

Unless it has changed in the last few months then it is run by Heathrow (Sipson Road) depot.

 

[Bungle965]

Unless it has changed in the last few months then it is run by Heathrow (Sipson Road) depot.

I always thought that the 040 service from Victoria to Bristol was run by First Coaches before being transferred to South Gloucestershire Bus & Coach when First gave up.
Sam

 

[Lrd]

I always thought that the 040 service from Victoria to Bristol was run by First Coaches before being transferred to South Gloucestershire Bus & Coach when First gave up.
Sam

I may be getting confused but I'm sure I saw the National Express legal lettering on the 040 when parked next to them at Victoria Coach Station. I also went for an interview at Sipson Road and they mentioned Bristol workings including a Plymouth run.

Looking online it appears highly likely that I'm getting it confused with another service :?

 

[anti-pacer]

Why the need to mention that they were Muslim men? Just curious.

Because there were language barriers for a start, and they were all speaking together on the coach. I'm guessing they were part of the same mosque or organisation, but chose to pay separately, which although was their right, it held a coach up for 35 minutes.

It was relevant to the post.

 

[anti-pacer]

Yes, obviously it could not be what I am thinking and could be something completely different. On the topic of boarding the coach without a ticket its something which I have never dared to do as I do not quite know how the driver would respond and further to this if I was boarding somewhere which was not a main interchange or terminal I would feel rather worried that the coach would simply drive past because the driver does not have anyone on his loading charts.
Sam

Officially drivers have to call at all stops regardless, unless permission has been given by Control in Birmingham to miss them out. In reality though, some drivers have chosen to ignore this and it has bitten them on the a***.

 

[HowardGWR]

Because there were language barriers for a start, and they were all speaking together on the coach. I'm guessing they were part of the same mosque or organisation, but chose to pay separately, which although was their right, it held a coach up for 35 minutes.

It was relevant to the post.

No, what was relevant was that they could not speak English well and wanted to pay separately. That is what caught our eye. Islam is a religion, not a nationality or race. I think that was what our colleague picked up, as I did.

 

[Great_Western]

Have to say, Before I started working for the railway, Megabus from Newport to London was a godsend for 7 quid each way, especially with the convinient running times and pleasant coaches which were often lightly loaded, though it was irritating watching the coach return empty past my house on its way to Cwmbran depot after I'd just spent 8 quid on a taxi Now though, with a walk up fare of 19.50 with my PRIV discount its just not worth the hassle of booking in advance.

 

[PeterC]

They're valid on any service that is a registered local bus service, which in some cases is whole routes (registered in sections), and in others is parts of routes. Acceptance is required as a condition of claiming BSOG, which is the whole reason NatEx register some sections of some routes.

But which routes seems to be a well kept secret.

 

[Gareth]

I used to like National Express but whilst the vehicles are quite comfy, these days there's always noisy inconsiderate passengers; either on the ale or messing about with their smartphones, so you hear the same annoying *ping* every 30 seconds or so. Passengers can be annoying on trains too but it's not quite a given and if I'm on the train for much less time then it's no so bad.

They're also nearly always very indirect for Liverpool too. Near enough everything seems to be routed via Manchester Airport and Manchester itself, not matter what the general direction is. So a journey to London can easily take six or so hours. I tend to just find it worth paying more for the two hour train journey, these days.

Did the nighttime (think it wasy Megabus) bus from London to Liverpool once a few years ago. I can never sleep on transport at the best of the times but my body was begging, achingly to drift off as we were bounced about constantly whilst we embarked on a seemingly endless trip that took in places like Birmingham Airport, Stafford, Stoke, Manchester Airport & city centre and Ellesmere Port. Never again.

I think there may be a gap in the market for a long distance bus service that's a bit dearer than National Express but gives a better journey time. I know I'd be interested.

 

[anti-pacer]

No, what was relevant was that they could not speak English well and wanted to pay separately. That is what caught our eye. Islam is a religion, not a nationality or race. I think that was what our colleague picked up, as I did.

I am aware Islam is a religion and not a race or nationality.

I mentioned it in passing, innocently. If I'd have said a load of Man United football fans got on, you wouldn't have blinked an eyelid. There were Muslim, I wasn't slagging them off. I was giving as much info to the post as possible.

For God's sake, some of you tell us what you had for lunch, where you bought it from, and how much you paid for it on Trip Reports. Please stop trying to pick something that isn't there.

 

[anti-pacer]

I used to like National Express but whilst the vehicles are quite comfy, these days there's always noisy inconsiderate passengers; either on the ale or messing about with their smartphones, so you hear the same annoying *ping* every 30 seconds or so. Passengers can be annoying on trains too but it's not quite a given and if I'm on the train for much less time then it's no so bad.

They're also nearly always very indirect for Liverpool too. Near enough everything seems to be routed via Manchester Airport and Manchester itself, not matter what the general direction is. So a journey to London can easily take six or so hours. I tend to just find it worth paying more for the two hour train journey, these days.

Did the nighttime Megabus from London to Liverpool once a few years ago. I can never sleep on transport at the best of the times but my body was begging, achingly to drift off as we were bounced about constantly as we embarked on a seemingly endless trip that took in places like Birmingham Airport, Stafford, Stoke, Manchester Airport & city centre and Ellesmere Port. Never again.

I think there may be a gap in the market for a long distance bus service that's a bit dearer than National Express but gives a better journey time. I know I'd be interested.

National Express services from Liverpool to London don't go through Manchester. However, many Megabuses as you point out are less direct.

 

[fowler9]

I am aware Islam is a religion and not a race or nationality.

I mentioned it in passing, innocently. If I'd have said a load of Man United football fans got on, you wouldn't have blinked an eyelid. There were Muslim, I wasn't slagging them off. I was giving as much info to the post as possible.

For God's sake, some of you tell us what you had for lunch, where you bought it from, and how much you paid for it on Trip Reports. Please stop trying to pick something that isn't there.

So I hear you are a racist now anti-pacer, are we all to be racist. I blame the Greeks! (Sorry, Father Ted reference. Ha ha. I don't really think you are a racist).

 

[Gareth]

National Express services from Liverpool to London don't go through Manchester. However, many Megabuses as you point out are less direct.

Pretty much every long distance bus I've used has gone through at least Manchester Airport and usually central Manchester too. Pretty sure I've used National Express in the last few years, as well as Megabus. At least one or two stops in the Midlands was also near enough a given. I don't know: perhaps there are some that do and some that don't?

 

[anti-pacer]

So I hear you are a racist now anti-pacer, are we all to be racist. I blame the Greeks! (Sorry, Father Ted reference. Ha ha. I don't really think you are a racist).

Hahaha. It does my head in when you innocently mention something and it gets picked up and misconstrued, often by the sort of people who get offended on behalf of certain ethnic or religious groups, when in actual fact 9 times out of 10, said groups wouldn't have an issue with it. I'm not by the way implying HowardGWR is one of these people.

I was merely adding as much info to the post.

 

[anti-pacer]

Pretty much every long distance bus I've used has gone through at least Manchester Airport and usually central Manchester too. Pretty sure I've used National Express in the last few years, as well as Megabus. At least one or two stops in the Midlands was also near enough a given. I don't know: perhaps there are some that do and many that don't?

550 Liverpool-London services, operated by NX definitely don't serve Manchester Airport. They used to serve Stoke and probably still do.

Anything going east of Manchester from Liverpool, including what used to be the 350 service to Clacton (now Southend) calls at the airport, with the exception of the 060 shuttle to Leeds.

 

[howittpie]

Pretty much every long distance bus I've used has gone through at least Manchester Airport and usually central Manchester too. Pretty sure I've used National Express in the last few years, as well as Megabus. At least one or two stops in the Midlands was also near enough a given. I don't know: perhaps there are some that do and some that don't?

The 07.00 and 10.00 from London to Liverpool are 540's and go via Manchester and southbound departing Liverpool at 13.40 and 16.20 go via Manchester.

 

[Gareth]

Interesting. From casual observation, when I see a NE bus here, 9 times out of 10 it's the 060. Presumably this is far more frequent (hourly?) then other services.

 

[Gareth]

The 07.00 and 10.00 from London to Liverpool are 540's and go via Manchester and southbound departing Liverpool at 13.40 and 16.20 go via Manchester.

Thanks for the info. Must've chosen poorly then (or the other half did!).

 

[anti-pacer]

The 07.00 and 10.00 from London to Liverpool are 540's and go via Manchester and southbound departing Liverpool at 13.40 and 16.20 go via Manchester.

The 540's don't show on the timetable link for Liverpool.

Do you have a link to this?

 

[fowler9]

I used to use NX all the time from Liverpool to Bradford when I was at Uni in Bradford in the mid 90's. IFRC for a while it was a shuttle to Manchester then another one from Manchester to Leeds stopping at Bradford. They were timed to connect but on one occasion the coach from Liverpool was that late it missed the connection. I asked one of the guys in the old layout Chorlton Street if I could endorse my ticket and he said I'd would have to buy a new one. I politely asked him if I really had to buy a new ticket ticket since it was their service that was late and they had sold me a through ticket. I was pretty gobsmacked since I was sold a booked connection. I went off to the ticket office and a chap there endorsed the ticket no problem. I guess being a scouser in Manchester didn't help. Ha ha. Those 060's were brilliant, when I first went to Uni it was another service I think to Newcastle which stopped everywhere conceivable between Liverpool and Bradford. Took a good while.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Because there were language barriers for a start, and they were all speaking together on the coach. I'm guessing they were part of the same mosque or organisation, but chose to pay separately, which although was their right, it held a coach up for 35 minutes.

It was relevant to the post.

You've not explained why there was a need to mention that they were Muslims.

 

[fowler9]

Interesting. From casual observation, when I see a NE bus here, 9 times out of 10 it's the 060. Presumably this is far more frequent (hourly?) then other services.

I think the 060 is, or perhaps just was, almost like a frequent shuttle service.

 

[howittpie]

The 540's don't show on the timetable link for Liverpool.

Do you have a link to this?

I got it from doing a journey search on the Nat Ex website from London to Liverpool this has been happening for at least the last 2 years. Also shows it on the travelline website.

 

[anti-pacer]

I used to use NX all the time from Liverpool to Bradford when I was at Uni in Bradford in the mid 90's. IFRC for a while it was a shuttle to Manchester then another one from Manchester to Leeds stopping at Bradford. They were timed to connect but on one occasion the coach from Liverpool was that late it missed the connection. I asked one of the guys in the old layout Chorlton Street if I could endorse my ticket and he said I'd would have to buy a new one. I politely asked him if I really had to buy a new ticket ticket since it was their service that was late and they had sold me a through ticket. I was pretty gobsmacked since I was sold a booked connection. I went off to the ticket office and a chap there endorsed the ticket no problem. I guess being a scouser in Manchester didn't help. Ha ha. Those 060's were brilliant, when I first went to Uni it was another service I think to Newcastle which stopped everywhere conceivable between Liverpool and Bradford. Took a good while.

You should have been able to just travel on the next Bradford service, no questions asked. What an a*** for telling you that!

The direct Bradford services from Liverpool serve Manchester Airport, Manchester, and Oldham. I travelled in 2004 every Friday night from Liverpool to Leeds on an 060 shuttle to see my then girlfriend. Evening 060 services served Bradford.

I did this for 5 months whilst I was living in Waterloo (Crosby). I worked in Aintree and finished at 8pm so it was the train into town then a coach at 21:** (can't remember the exact time). It was always the same driver and we used to chat as I always got the front seat. In the end he let me sit on the crew seat. This was before I worked for them myself, whereby the crew seat became the norm as half the drivers were (and still are) friends of mine.

 

[anti-pacer]

I got it from doing a journey search on the Nat Ex website from London to Liverpool this has been happening for at least the last 2 years.

It may give a connection going that way but it's definitely not through services to Liverpool.

 

[fowler9]

You should have been able to just travel on the next Bradford service, no questions asked. What an a*** for telling you that!

The direct Bradford services from Liverpool serve Manchester Airport, Manchester, and Oldham. I travelled in 2004 every Friday night from Liverpool to Leeds on an 060 shuttle to see my then girlfriend. Evening 060 services served Bradford.

I did this for 5 months whilst I was living in Waterloo (Crosby). I worked in Aintree and finished at 8pm so it was the train into town then a coach at 21:** (can't remember the exact time). It was always the same driver and we used to chat as I always got the front seat. In the end he let me sit on the crew seat. This was before I worked for them myself, whereby the crew seat became the norm as half the drivers were (and still are) friends of mine.

I thought so, it wasn't like a split ticket or separate advanced tickets, I had bought a through ticket to Bradford which involved 2 separate coaches. After many years of bashing on the railways I was sure he was wrong hence going to the ticket office (Back then there was an info desk at one end of the bus station and a ticket office at the Piccadilly Gardens end. The ticket office was sound.

Had some lovely journies over the Pennines on the coach, especially when they got diverted off the motorway for whatever reason. I was never in a rush at that time. Ha ha.

 

[howittpie]

It may give a connection going that way but it's definitely not through services to Liverpool.

Yes it is do a journey plan on the Nat Ex website no changes a direct 540 to Liverpool. I have also used the 10.00 regularly northbound and it calls at Milton Keynes, Manchester and Liverpool. This has been going on for at least 2 years.

 

[fowler9]

You've not explained why there was a need to mention that they were Muslims.

Personally I don't think it was meant in a racist way and I would be the first to jump on anyone I thought was being a racist or discriminating against someone for their religion. It just adds a bit of detail to the story, puts a picture in the mind so to say. It could have been a big group of students, a hen do or footy fans for example.