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EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

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anme

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What's the latest on Switzerland? They voted to impose immigration quotas in a referendum which needs to be implemented in a certain amount of time to comply with Swiss law. The government has been trying to negotiate a solution with the EU but time is running out.

As far as I know this is the latest status: https://www.euractiv.com/section/gl...-in-eu-swiss-relations-after-immigration-law/
Basically the Swiss will continue to accept freedom of movement, but with recruitment processes giving some defacto advantage to local job seekers in areas with high unemployment. The EU has welcomed the move and is reviewing it to see whether it resolves their concerns.
 
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Howardh

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As far as I know this is the latest status: https://www.euractiv.com/section/gl...-in-eu-swiss-relations-after-immigration-law/
Basically the Swiss will continue to accept freedom of movement, but with recruitment processes giving some defacto advantage to local job seekers in areas with high unemployment. The EU has welcomed the move and is reviewing it to see whether it resolves their concerns.

It would be a sensible option for the UK, stay in the EEA and use that clause to restrict migration.
 

furnessvale

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It would be a sensible option for the UK, stay in the EEA and use that clause to restrict migration.

Something not offered to the UK by the EU.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
A hard border splitting Ireland physically into two should meet with the full approval of Sinn Fein and the IRA*.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the issue we have come to a sorry state if the views of a terrorist group have to be considered.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Either you think bigger is better, or smaller is better for international trade. Which is it?

As you are fond of saying, it is a complicated issue. What is good for the USA does not necessarily work for the EU, especially as various EU members want to move in different directions.
 

Howardh

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Something not offered to the UK by the EU.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Whatever the rights and wrongs of the issue we have come to a sorry state if the views of a terrorist group have to be considered.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


As you are fond of saying, it is a complicated issue. What is good for the USA does not necessarily work for the EU, especially as various EU members want to move in different directions.
To be honest I've no idea why we are trying to solve your problems for you! You got us into this, we can just sit back and watch it all come together/dissolve!

As for Ireland, the whole of March should be spent with all three (UK-IRL-EU) and bang out a plan. If that plan means hard borders, then they go to Sinn Fein and get their opinion. If they say "er, not so sure about that" we can take it as "there'll be civil war like we've never seen before" and then quietly drop Brexit before A50 has to be invoked.
My local in Manchester, the Metro bar (£1/pint it was then, happy hour) was blown up by the IRA, and I'm not keen on the troubles restarting all over again.

In fact, I wonder if we have military national service, whether that would solve immigration without leaving the EU? Come in, but if you want to stay you have to bash spuds for 6 months first. Or spend your tour of duty in Northern Ireland!

Do any EU countries still have compulsory national service?
 
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AlterEgo

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To be honest I've no idea why we are trying to solve your problems for you! You got us into this, we can just sit back and watch it all come together/dissolve!

As for Ireland, the whole of March should be spent with all three (UK-IRL-EU) and bang out a plan. If that plan means hard borders, then they go to Sinn Fein and get their opinion. If they say "er, not so sure about that" we can take it as "there'll be civil war like we've never seen before" and then quietly drop Brexit before A50 has to be invoked.
My local in Manchester, the Metro bar (£1/pint it was then, happy hour) was blown up by the IRA, and I'm not keen on the troubles restarting all over again.

In fact, I wonder if we have military national service, whether that would solve immigration without leaving the EU? Come in, but if you want to stay you have to bash spuds for 6 months first. Or spend your tour of duty in Northern Ireland!

Do any EU countries still have compulsory national service?

Finland. Austria. Cyprus. Denmark. Estonia. Greece. Lithuania.

Some of those countries do not enforce conscription as it is seen as un-PC, or the places are filled anyway by volunteer soldiers.

For all their splendid rhetoric I don't think Sinn Féin would ever threaten "civil war". They're a party in fitful transition at present. It's the dissident republicans you have to watch.

Brexit is bloody great for dissident republicans. They get to spin all the hard border stuff, it lends further weight to their argument that NI is an illegitimate statelet beholden to British whimsy. Add to that the departure of McGuinness, and probably Adams in the next two years and you've lost a couple of republican torchbearers* who the British had in manageable positions. It also means they may have to change their cross border activities. Any change in modus operandus will be a challenge for the gardaí and the PSNI, as well as our intelligence services.

Well done everyone. Well done!


*What I mean is, those people are senior "mainstream" republican figures.
 
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anme

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As you are fond of saying, it is a complicated issue. What is good for the USA does not necessarily work for the EU, especially as various EU members want to move in different directions.

So apparently it's good to be big if you're America or China but bad if you're European. Please try to present a coherent argument. The ball is in your court. Present a positive vision. Tell us how it is going to work.

Also, provide evidence that EU members want to move in different directions any more than Scotland wants to move in a different direction to England.
 
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AlterEgo

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As you are fond of saying, it is a complicated issue. What is good for the USA does not necessarily work for the EU, especially as various EU members want to move in different directions.

Logic not present.

So essentially, in a world which sees an emerging China, the rise of the BRICS nations, a USA about to revert to isolation and nation building, a Russia with renewed aggression and coalescing anger across the Middle East - it is better for Britain to go it alone, rather than being part of a much larger bloc.
 

furnessvale

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So apparently it's good to be big if you're America or China but bad if you're European. Please try to present a coherent argument. The ball is in your court. Present a positive vision. Tell us how it is going to work.

Also, provide evidence that EU members want to move in different directions any more than Scotland wants to move in a different direction to England.

You must have missed the brexit vote.
 

northwichcat

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In fact, I wonder if we have military national service, whether that would solve immigration without leaving the EU? Come in, but if you want to stay you have to bash spuds for 6 months first. Or spend your tour of duty in Northern Ireland!

Do any EU countries still have compulsory national service?

Finland. Austria. Cyprus. Denmark. Estonia. Greece. Lithuania.

The high amount of spending on defence is one reason Greece's economy is so poor.

One thing worth remembering is that the Equalities Act has been introduced since we last had military service, so any new military service requirement would have to allow exemptions for people who have mental health issues or refuse to be involved in military operations for religious reasons. It also couldn't be made compulsory for all boys and exclude girls.
 

EM2

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https://www.neweurope.eu/article/lloyds-london-leaving-london/

After three centuries, the Lloyds of London will no longer be “of London.” The company is moving its headquarters, its CEO Inga Beale confirmed on Friday.

Talking to Bloomberg TV on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum in Davos, Beale confirmed that following Prime Minister May’s announcement last Tuesday, Lloyds was going ahead with its contingency plan.

Many insurance companies will be moving a big part of their operations, since passporting rights and licensing are key to the sectors’ business in Europe. Lloyds stands to lose as much as 11% of its premiums that come from Europe or little under 1bn Euros.

Lloyd’s was founded three centuries ago in London and is moving ahead because a licensing process could take more than a year. What Lloyd’s want to avoid is what the industry calls “cliff’s edge trap,” in which the service provider cannot move soon enough to ensure continuity of service.

The Irish Times suggest both Malta and Dublin are under consideration.

U.S. insurer AIG also said in November it is considering moving its headquarters from London.

In a speech to the CBI business group in November, Theresa May reassured the business community that the U.K would seek a transitional deal with the EU. But, whether Brussels will play accommodating is not for London alone to determine. While Britain promises to slash corporate tax, passporting is a key element of the insurance industry that Britain can no longer guarantee.

In late October, the Chief Executive of the British Bankers’ Association, Antony Browne, warned that international banks will begin the process of relocating their headquarters from the City in the beginning of 2017.

Financial services account for 12% of Britain’s GDP and is a sector that employs one million people.
 

AlterEgo

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One thing worth remembering is that the Equalities Act has been introduced since we last had military service, so any new military service requirement would have to allow exemptions for people who have mental health issues or refuse to be involved in military operations for religious reasons. It also couldn't be made compulsory for all boys and exclude girls.

National Service won't happen in Britain again.

Our defence forces are specialised, tehcnological, and agile. We don't habitually have a large standing army and much greater emphasis is placed on the Reserve Forces.

Also, more than enough people want to serve voluntarily anyway.
 

dosxuk

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Unlike remainers who seem to be so blinkered as to see no good points about brexit!

Maybe if some of leavers actually tried putting together a list of things that will be better because of Brexit, rather than just telling anyone who doesn't believe is a traitor, or that predictions of how bad things might get haven't come true yet, there might be more belief in the project.

Every remainer who's been lumbered with implementing this is coming across as "lets make the best of a bad job" rather than "actually I was wrong, this will work". Every day the news is full of people pointing out more issues with the Government's "plan", along with reminders of anyone not buying into Brexit should keep quiet. Nobody is saying anything about how this is going to be a good thing.
 

47802

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Maybe if some of leavers actually tried putting together a list of things that will be better because of Brexit, rather than just telling anyone who doesn't believe is a traitor, or that predictions of how bad things might get haven't come true yet, there might be more belief in the project.

Every remainer who's been lumbered with implementing this is coming across as "lets make the best of a bad job" rather than "actually I was wrong, this will work". Every day the news is full of people pointing out more issues with the Government's "plan", along with reminders of anyone not buying into Brexit should keep quiet. Nobody is saying anything about how this is going to be a good thing.

That's good point as the banks start to pull parts of their business out of London and shed jobs as a remoner I would like Brexitors to tell what the benefits of Brexit are exactly.<(
 

PHILIPE

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National Service won't happen in Britain again.

Our defence forces are specialised, tehcnological, and agile. We don't habitually have a large standing army and much greater emphasis is placed on the Reserve Forces.

Also, more than enough people want to serve voluntarily anyway.

I'm old enough to have done 2 years National Service and when it finished 2 years after my discharge, my first reaction was "Not fair. I had to go so why shouldn't everybody else" <(<(

Mind you, many people say today that National Service would sort out some of the lowlife types of today's youth.
 

northwichcat

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I'm old enough to have done 2 years National Service and when it finished 2 years after my discharge, my first reaction was "Not fair. I had to go so why shouldn't everybody else" <(<(

Mind you, many people say today that National Service would sort out some of the lowlife types of today's youth.

When I was on holiday in Ontario I spoke to someone who told me he was originally from Britain but chose to do his national service in Ontario and finished up staying in North America. If you tell that to some teenagers they'll probably be jealous that they won't have that opportunity.
 

Howardh

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National service needn't be military. Could be 6 months helping the community, but not a cheap labour though, which would be a difficult balancing act. Eg, helping out in a care home? great experience, great help, but surely a fully-paid professional should be doing that?

Makes me wonder if all those of us that were in the scouts/guides ever used the skills I didn't learn in later life!
 

miami

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National service needn't be military. Could be 6 months helping the community, but not a cheap labour though, which would be a difficult balancing act. Eg, helping out in a care home? great experience, great help, but surely a fully-paid professional should be doing that?

I'm against all forms of involuntary servitude.
 

furnessvale

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What was that?

You know the one.

The one you commented on, before changing it, that the UK was only one country compared to 27 others steadily marching to oblivion in the other direction. (My italic bit added).

The thing is the economic clout of the UK is more than 1/28th of the EU and, in any case, several other EU countries have concerns about the direction the EU is taking.
 

anme

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You know the one.

The one you commented on, before changing it, that the UK was only one country compared to 27 others steadily marching to oblivion in the other direction. (My italic bit added).

The thing is the economic clout of the UK is more than 1/28th of the EU and, in any case, several other EU countries have concerns about the direction the EU is taking.

Several parts of the UK have concerns about the direction the UK is taking. Are you in favour of Northern Ireland, Scotland and London leaving?

It's normal that not everyone agrees on everything. If we threw our toys out of the pram and refused to work together the moment we have some small disagreement we would still be living in caves.

Why do you mean by "steadily marching to oblivion"? Please explain.
 
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Steveman

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Judges find 8-3 against the Govt. hardly a shock.
Scotland and the other minor parts of the UK don't get the chance to block it which won't please the poisoned dwarf.
 
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EM2

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So will MPs vote on this according to their constituents' wishes, or according to their own?
I can see a number of unseated MPs at the next GE, whichever way they decide.
 

northwichcat

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So will MPs vote on this according to their constituents' wishes, or according to their own?
I can see a number of unseated MPs at the next GE, whichever way they decide.

Or do they try to guess which way their supporters voted? For instance, in my constituency 58% of voters voted Conservative in 2015 and 55% of voters voted Remain in 2016. If most of the 45% who voted Leave are likely to vote Conservative will the MP go against the majority of his constituents' wishes in favour of keeping his supporters happy?
 

AlterEgo

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Or do they try to guess which way their supporters voted? For instance, in my constituency 58% of voters voted Conservative in 2015 and 55% of voters voted Remain in 2016. If most of the 45% who voted Leave are likely to vote Conservative will the MP go against the majority of his constituents' wishes in favour of keeping his supporters happy?

That would be fundamentally undemocratic. You could end up with a situation where the majority of the UK voted to Leave, but the geographic distribution of votes was such that in fact over 50% of constituencies actually polled a majority Remain.

No, MPs must respect the referendum result and allow A50 to pass - subject to scrutiny, of course.
 

Johnuk123

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That would be fundamentally undemocratic. You could end up with a situation where the majority of the UK voted to Leave, but the geographic distribution of votes was such that in fact over 50% of constituencies actually polled a majority Remain.

No, MPs must respect the referendum result and allow A50 to pass - subject to scrutiny, of course.

What happens when all the amendments delay it so long as to make it worthless which of course has always been the plan ? referendum 2 no doubt.
 

DarloRich

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That would be fundamentally undemocratic. You could end up with a situation where the majority of the UK voted to Leave, but the geographic distribution of votes was such that in fact over 50% of constituencies actually polled a majority Remain.

No, MPs must respect the referendum result and allow A50 to pass - subject to scrutiny, of course.

I don't think there is any argument over Article 50. That will be voted through by Parliament and negotiations will begin. Where the trouble comes is in ratifying the deal post A50. May has set out what she wants from that deal and has to be held to that.

Parliament must vote to ratify that deal and work on the required amendments in committee.
 
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