Caught with an altered ticket

[snowghty]

Okay, as the title says I got cought on a train with a fake ticket.

I am 24 and I admit I am very stupid for doing this but here is what happened basically i used a altered train ticket from Liverpool Street to Stansted Airport where usually i buy the ticket online and this time around O was like "why can't you simply change the day of the ticket, and print it with the new date"

Well it turned out that they can figure this out and I was caught with this. I apologised to the stuff and offered to pay for my ticket by they took a report from me and said that i will recieve a letter from their company with further instructions.

I am really stupid for doing this and will never do it again. I was just curious if something like this is possible but now I am freaking out what's next, reading around it seems traveling with a fake ticket is a pretty serious thing which I had no idea about as i thought "it's just a ticket - no big deal"

Any advice what to do next or what usually happens? I am scared that they will take me to court or somethig for that little moment of stupidity.

I have a record of past bookings on the Stansted Express website to proove that i've always booked and paid for my ticket.

 

[AlterEgo]

So, let's get this clear. Was this an e-ticket that you've Photoshopped or edited? Who caught you? Where? Which company did they work for? What did you say to the staff? Did they place you under caution?

 

[najaB]

Any advice what to do next or what usually happens? I am scared that they will take me to court or somethig for that little moment of stupidity.

There is a high probability that this will go to court, as faking and then using a ticket shows intent to defraud.

I have a record of past bookings on the Stansted Express website to proove that i've always booked and paid for my ticket.

Unfortunately, this is of little help to you. The fact is that you didn't pay for your ticket on *this* occasion and that is all that the TOC's prosecutors will be interested in. To use an analogy, it's like a suspected car thief saying "Look at all the cars I haven't stolen."

 

[bb21]

as i thought "it's just a ticket - no big deal"

It is a pretty big deal. I never quite understand people who think otherwise. Aside from the fact that it is illegal, such actions are responsible for part of the fares everyone pays. Without these fraudulent activities we could all be paying less for our fares, so in a sense these actions are defrauding every law-abiding passenger.

A few possibilities come to mind. The most likely one is a charge under Section 5.3(a) of the Regulation of Railways Act. The intent is straight forward to prove so that is what you should be preparing yourself for imo. The impact for conviction is a criminal record that becomes spent in 12 months, and a fine.

It is also possible for a fraud charge to be pressed for. That said I think it is a less likely outcome if this was a one-off as the ticket value is relatively small in the scheme of things so the train company might not consider it worth their while, but it is a possibility.

There are also other options, but I don't think we really need too look beyond these two at this stage. They may write to you to allow you to put across your version of the events. You may also be called in for a face-to-face interview, partly to establish the extent of this fraudulent activity, and to give you a chance to explain yourself.

It is possible to settle out of court, although I wouldn't like to say what the possibility of that being offered is. Different train companies will have a different degree of appetite for it. In any case, you will need to be prepared for a substantial sum being demanded, potentially to cover all the journeys assumed to have been made fraudulently since you purchased/collected the ticket you Photoshopped depending on its format on the assumption that this was a persistent activity only discovered on this occasion.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

It's not clear to me what kind of 'altering' you had been doing to the ticket's date, but some ways of doing this are costing the industry massive amounts of lost revenue and so are investigated carefully.

I agree with bb21, but will just add that if it is the form of altering that is widespread, then bb21's last suggestion is very likely: that you will be interviewed again to discover the extent of your 'forgeries', how long you've been doing this, whether you've been giving or selling the forgeries to other people, the values of the tickets etc. And they'd want to have that interview with you before deciding which of the outcomes to pursue, which bb21 has listed.

 

[northwichcat]

I have a record of past bookings on the Stansted Express website to proove that i've always booked and paid for my ticket.

That proves you've purchased tickets before, not that you've purchased tickets for every journey you made before. It's practically impossible to prove how many times you've used a train service.

 

[Amy Worrall]

It's not clear to me what kind of 'altering' you had been doing to the ticket's date

Sounds to me like they bought a print-at-home ticket of some description, and modified the file on a computer before printing.

 

[Southwest]

It's not clear to me what kind of 'altering' you had been doing to the ticket's date, but some ways of doing this are costing the industry massive amounts of lost revenue and so are investigated carefully.

Does it matter? Surely this is a premeditated act of fraud and will carry a highler penalty tariff?

 

[najaB]

Does it matter? Surely this is a premeditated act of fraud and will carry a highler penalty tariff?

Attempting to alter the date on a ticket using a Sharpie is likely to attract less attention from the prosecutors than setting up a printing press to produce pixel perfect ticket stock and then mass-producing fake tickets to order.

It's all about scale and impact.

 

[richw]

Attempting to alter the date on a ticket using a Sharpie is likely to attract less attention from the prosecutors than setting up a printing press to produce pixel perfect ticket stock and then mass-producing fake tickets to order.

It's all about scale and impact.

It's a print at home ticket from the op. A4 print out. Reading between the lines it's been photoshopped. I'm guessing picked up on when the barcode is scanned?
In which case it's pre planned fraudulent alteration of a ticket in my
Opinion.

 

[LexyBoy]

That's my reading as well, that the PDF was edited to amend the date, and that this was picked up when scanning the barcode rejected the ticket as either already used or wrongly dated.

 

[AlterEgo]

That's my reading as well, that the PDF was edited to amend the date, and that this was picked up when scanning the barcode rejected the ticket as either already used or wrongly dated.

If this is the case, as I suspect it will be, then I would support the TOC throwing the book at the OP. I would be strongly inclined to prosecute under RoRA if I were the prosecutions manager.

I do not generally like the railway prosecuting people but for such obvious attempts to defraud then I don't think there is much choice.

Not trying to annoy the OP but rather to inform him that this is a serious matter and it may have serious consequences.

 

[rdwarr]

I agree it's an "obvious attempt to defraud" but no more obvious than saying you boarded at a later station when buying a ticket at destination. In fact the latter would have more chance of success.

 

[AlterEgo]

I agree it's an "obvious attempt to defraud" but no more obvious than saying you boarded at a later station when buying a ticket at destination. In fact the latter would have more chance of success.

Not quite the same, as this example shows clear premeditation.

 

[najaB]

Not quite the same, as this example shows clear premeditation.

Oh, definitely. Short faring is often a 'crime of opportunity' where this demonstrates intent to obtain services by deception. If the OP is able to avoid court their pocket will likely be quite a bit lighter.

 

[snowghty]

Hey guys, thanks for the responses, so the company is Abelio greater Anglia, i was stopped with a print at home ticket with changed date on photoshop by train stuff at the stansted airport station to which I told what I have done as they said to be honest to what happened. I do expect to get a fine for this that i would pay I just dont see why they would take it to court since they will get the money from the fine. But let's see when my letter arrives.

Obviously was a very stupid thing to do. Is there a chance i can wrte to the company an apology letter or that wouldn't change much their descision?

 

[bb21]

I just dont see why they would take it to court since they will get the money from the fine. But let's see when my letter arrives.

To set an example and send a clear message to others who might be thinking of doing the same.

Obviously was a very stupid thing to do. Is there a chance i can wrte to the company an apology letter or that wouldn't change much their descision?

As I mentioned earlier, there is of course a chance that they may accept a sincere apology and a big settlement. Given the circumstances I don't really rate your chances, but never say never.

You are going to have to give it some time and wait for them to get in touch. There is not a lot you can do for now.

 

[cjmillsnun]

TBH I think they'll go and throw the book at you with a RoRA prosecution. In all honesty I hope they do. You need legal help rather than our help

 

[bb21]

TBH I think they'll go and throw the book at you with a RoRA prosecution. In all honesty I hope they do. You need legal help rather than our help

Yes I agree. Once it becomes clear what approach the train company is planning on pursuing, should it turn out to be RoRA or worse, it would be wise for the OP to seek some professional guidance.

 

[najaB]

TBH I think they'll go and throw the book at you with a RoRA prosecution. In all honesty I hope they do.

I wouldn't go as far as hoping that the OP gets prosecuted, but I wouldn't shed a tear if they did.

 

[bb21]

I know this case would arouse strong feelings but can we try not to stick the boot in? It does no one any good.

 

[185]

Fake tickets are like Christmas presents to revenue staff, and it's unlikely this will get closed with a settlement or warning. Whilst the OP could write to the prosecutions unit apologising, it is fairly unlikely it would change matters - there is no more 'intent shown' to defraud the railway than a forged or altered ticket. Fairly certain it will be a prosecution under the RoRA.

As suggested, a solicitor is a good idea, however only to mitigate the prosecution - it's unlikely even the best solicitor could successfully defend a fake ticket case.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

It's not clear to me what kind of 'altering' you had been doing to the ticket's date, but some ways of doing this are costing the industry massive amounts of lost revenue and so are investigated carefully.

Does it matter? Surely this is a premeditated act of fraud and will carry a highler penalty tariff?

It matters for exactly the reason I went on to refer to in my next paragraph - the potential scale of the fraud will influence the approach taken by the Company's investigators, which is what snowghty is wanting to understand.

snowghty, please don't tell us here on this public forum, but I want you to be aware that the Investigators will be interested to know whether this was 'just' something you did for your own personal gain, or whether it was something you did for other people and, if you did, on what scale you were producing these fakes. Even if you only did it once, and by some coincidence that was also the time you were found out, they will still want to find out for themselves how many tickets you had forged.

 

[yorkie]

Hey guys, thanks for the responses, so the company is Abelio greater Anglia, i was stopped with a print at home ticket with changed date on photoshop by train stuff at the stansted airport station to which I told what I have done as they said to be honest to what happened. I do expect to get a fine for this that i would pay I just dont see why they would take it to court since they will get the money from the fine. But let's see when my letter arrives.

Obviously was a very stupid thing to do. Is there a chance i can wrte to the company an apology letter or that wouldn't change much their descision?

They may offer an out of court settlement in order to keep the matter out of court, which would mean they get the money.

Alternatively, if it goes to court, and you are found guilty, then the court would impose a fine (in addition to a criminal record), and the fine wouldn't go to AGA, though they would be awarded costs.

So, if an agreement can be reached, an out of court settlement can be in the interests of both parties.

More information is available here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=71833

I don't see how we can help you further, but please do contact us to arrange for this thread to be unlocked when you have an update.

 

[snowghty]

So following up my thread from a few months ago http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=135919

Now before you comment, I would ask you to retain from judging or being hateful about what has happened. We all make mistakes.

I've got the letter from the train company asking me to write them if I consider that there are further mitigating factors that may influence any decision that may be made whether legal proceedings are appropriate or not.

I was wondering if anyone can guide me what to write in the letter?

I am thinking to add the following:
- an apology,
- an explanation that on the day of my travel I was feeling stressed and under pressure and unable to think straight
- informing them that I am aware that I am in breach of certain laws
- offering them that I would pay a fine and any admin fees that this incident has caused (based on my research should be around £500)
- having no previous record for such thing, I am reassuring them that It would never happen again
- kindly asking them to settle the matter outside of court as it would affect my employment, future career opportunities and upcoming business plans that require VISAS and travel authorizations.

Hoping that this letter will result in issuing of a Warning Letter only without the company to have to take this to court.

Do you have any suggestions and advice that might be of help?

On another note, I contacted a law firm and they told me to pay them £995 and they will make the whole thing go away as "they have a close relationship with the train companies". Now I feel like this is a bit of a rip-off and they are trying to blackmail people in trouble and would def not want to go there.

Following up another research I did the charges they can press are:
1. Entering a train for the purpose of traveling without a ticket entitling travel
2. Altering a ticket with intent

Considering the fact they took my printed ticket, they have the prove of the altered £10 ticket. So if they go to court it is extremely likely to be convicted to a fine of up to a £1,000 but the things is from that amount the company would get a certain % more or less, the rest will be taken by the court and what's left would go for admin fees. So I think it might be in their interest to settle the matter outside of court. Am I wrong?

 

[najaB]

I was wondering if anyone can guide me what to write in the letter?

I am thinking to add the following:
- an apology,
- an explanation that on the day of my travel I was feeling stressed and under pressure and unable to think straight
- informing them that I am aware that I am in breach of certain laws
- offering them that I would pay a fine and any admin fees that this incident has caused (based on my research should be around £500)
- having no previous record for such thing, I am reassuring them that It would never happen again
- kindly asking them to settle the matter outside of court as it would affect my employment, future career opportunities and upcoming business plans that require VISAS and travel authorizations.

Hoping that this letter will result in issuing of a Warning Letter only without the company to have to take this to court.

Do you have any suggestions and advice that might be of help?

That's about right. I wouldn't put too much stress on the second point as, to put it bluntly, they don't care *why* you did it.

On another note, I contacted a law firm and they told me to pay them £995 and they will make the whole thing go away as "they have a close relationship with the train companies". Now I feel like this is a bit of a rip-off and they are trying to blackmail people in trouble and would def not want to go there.

That's typical for fees for this kind of thing, but I'm a bit concerned by their implication that they can just make it go away.

 

[snowghty]

That's about right. I wouldn't put too much stress on the second point as, to put it bluntly, they don't care *why* you did it.

That's typical for fees for this kind of thing, but I'm a bit concerned by their implication that they can just make it go away.

Well, they said that they will write the letter on my behalf if I choose to do it that way. So I am not sure if i should write the letter myself or pay 1k and let the lawyers handle it all and not be bothered.

 

[najaB]

Well, they said that they will write the letter on my behalf if I choose to do it that way. So I am not sure if i should write the letter myself or pay 1k and let the lawyers handle it all and not be bothered.

In that case I think that £900+ is a lot of money for writing a letter.

 

[snowghty]

In that case I think that £900+ is a lot of money for writing a letter.

I think that includes any settlement I might need to pay to the train company.

 

[najaB]

I think that includes any settlement I might need to pay to the train company.

Well, only you can decide if the cost/benefit is worth it to you.