EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[LateThanNever]

I'd personally put Teachers first, then Businessmen. The former are far more important. Lawyers of course have to be at the bottom of the pile (although I wouldn't go as far as joinging Jack Cade's rebellion, nor calling lawyers "enemies of the state" as some would).

Trade Unionists are full-time politicians. Nothing wrong with that, people say they don't like career politicians and spin doctors, but you're unlikely to become an MP without going through those loops.
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1) Certainty. Well the process is written in article 50.
2) Control of our own laws. Not likely if we're going to have trade deals. We've also got things like the ECHR which we aren't leaving.
3) Strengthen the union.
4) Maintain the CTA. Not sure how that's going to play with the immigration plan. All those muslamic terrorists will simply fly to Dublin, then drive up to Belfast. I wonder if Ireland will be able to maintain it's Schengen opt-out.
5) We have no control over non-eu immigration, at least we can't meet May's own figures, so a meaningless statement
6) What rights?
7) Trust a right-wing tory government to protect workers rights? Oh how I miss Dave and Major.
8) How exactly are we going to get a free trade agreement? What will we give up?
9) We already had trade agreements with almost the entire world. Those we didn't (the US being a case in point) were because we decided that TTIP was a bad thing.
10) What a great plan. How will that be achieved.
11) Like we already do?
12) As if.

Quite agree: it's pretty much brexit as motherhood and apple pie with dishonesty about the Irish border as a garnish.

 

[miami]

Quite agree: it's pretty much brexit as motherhood and apple pie with dishonesty about the Irish border as a garnish.

Indeed, if we're not in the EU customs area, I forsee a boom in Northern Ireland one way or another.

Optimist: Where we'll have a 3% tarrif to sell to the EU on April Fools Day 2019, we can instead sell to a middleman in Londonderry, who will then drive them over to Newtowncunningham (no borders), and sell them to the EU with no tarrif, boom in commerce.

Pessimist: 1980s again

Unless this free trade agreement the UK will impose of the EU is the same as the one we have now, with all of the baggage that comes with it.

 

[Howardh]

Parts 3 and 4 are in tatters. You can't leave the customs union and the single market yet leave a wide open external border for goods to cross over. It's one or the other, and if it means a border I won't be telling the IRA.

As for the Union, another referendum looks likely now, although it might be wise for the SNP to say - "you get another independence referendum as we promised...but we think you should vote to stay in the UK"!!

 

[RichmondCommu]

Parts 3 and 4 are in tatters. You can't leave the customs union and the single market yet leave a wide open external border for goods to cross over. It's one or the other, and if it means a border I won't be telling the IRA.

Who say's that it's one or the other?

 

[miami]

Parts 3 and 4 are in tatters. You can't leave the customs union and the single market yet leave a wide open external border for goods to cross over. It's one or the other, and if it means a border I won't be telling the IRA.

As for the Union, another referendum looks likely now, although it might be wise for the SNP to say - "you get another independence referendum as we promised...but we think you should vote to stay in the UK"!!

Every Local Authority in the land should now be given an independence referendum from May's Britain. Either stay in the UK, with our current EU deal (favoured by SNP etc), or leave for May's Vision (favoured by UKIP etc).

 

[Johnuk123]

Every Local Authority in the land should now be given an independence referendum from May's Britain. Either stay in the UK, with our current EU deal (favoured by SNP etc), or leave for May's Vision (favoured by UKIP etc).

How old are you ?

 

[Senex]

I note that it was the trade unionists took preference amongst the four types of people mention in your posting and businessmen were the last named, with lawyers in second place and teachers in third place.

The rationale was to put the trade-unionists and the teachers together as the groups with a long history of providing Labour members and the lawyers and the businessmen together as the groups with a long history of provbiding Tory members (along with the knights of the shires, of course) -- and it was pure politeness then to put Labour first, that being the party that I could never support in a million years (however much I detest the Tories, especially under their May incarnation).
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Every Local Authority in the land should now be given an independence referendum from May's Britain. Either stay in the UK, with our current EU deal (favoured by SNP etc), or leave for May's Vision (favoured by UKIP etc).

That's a brilliant idea!

Now we know what May is up to, it seems eminently fair. How dare the woman make calls for unity at the weekend when only a few days later she is announcing the most bitterly divisive approach possible to Brexit, designed just to keep the Tory right wing like the dreadful IDS happy? Classic example of winner-takes-all: the majority was only marginally above 50%, with a minority of only marginally under, and yet the view of the minority get totally ignored as she pushes for the most extreme form of exit possible.

 

[overthewater]

I like how EVERYONE said a vote to leave is a vote to leave the single market, Now the remain people lying and back tracking and saying that was never the case.

 

[northwichcat]

Every Local Authority in the land should now be given an independence referendum from May's Britain. Either stay in the UK, with our current EU deal (favoured by SNP etc), or leave for May's Vision (favoured by UKIP etc).

Can we have one on changing the local authority boundaries as well? Tatton and Macclesfield don't want Crewe & Nantwich dragging them out of them EU!

 

[miami]

I like how EVERYONE said a vote to leave is a vote to leave the single market, Now the remain people lying and back tracking and saying that was never the case.

Not sure, but I distinctly remember this quote: "Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market"

Can we have one on changing the local authority boundaries as well? Tatton and Macclesfield don't want Crewe & Nantwich dragging them out of them EU!

I live in Eddisbury. In June I lived in Trafford, and thanks to my presence Trafford voted remain. Now I've moved, the LA I'm in will vote remain.

 

[Howardh]

If it looks likely that we have to abandon the CTA (and also that we are probably ending up outside the EEA) then - as it was clearly stated by leave that we would remain in the CTA - then shouldn't there be a joint referendum with us and Ireland with the key question
"If we continue to leave the EU that will also mean we abandon the CTA.
Do you wish to continue to leave the EU and abandon the CTA?
Do you wish to keep the CTA and remain in the EU?"

Would be worded differently in Ireland of course.

 

[Kite159]

Don't worry about trade deals, there was talk of a brilliant trade deal with the manufacturing powerhouse of New Zealand.

At least England & Wales (As Scotland will break away and Northern Ireland will join the rest of Ireland) will have a good supply of frozen lamb and butter

Shouldn't point 13 be "hold talks with the Trumpton to become the 51st state of America"?

 

[EM2]

I like how EVERYONE said a vote to leave is a vote to leave the single market, Now the remain people lying and back tracking and saying that was never the case.

Plenty of leading Leave figures said that we wouldn't leave the single market:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xGt3QmRSZY
And yet now we are...

 

[miami]

Don't worry about trade deals, there was talk of a brilliant trade deal with the manufacturing powerhouse of New Zealand.

At least England & Wales (As Scotland will break away and Northern Ireland will join the rest of Ireland) will have a good supply of frozen lamb and butter

That's good, I tried to buy some nice olive oil from there for xmas, but the postage was excessive. I'm glad the barriers to trade will vanish :roll:
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On a tradedeal with Trumpton

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38639638

Tariffs, which are taxes on goods entering a country, are already quite low between the USA and the EU: they average 3%.
A free-trade deal would aim to bring them all down to zero, but it is non-tariff barriers that are the real problem.
This covers everything from bank regulations and car safety standards to animal welfare and environmental protection.
The easiest deal would be for the USA to accept all our standards and regulations and for us to accept all theirs.
But this is where it can get messy.
For instance, the UK has much stricter rules on food standards, GM crops and hormones in farm animals.
....
Then there is the thorny issue of the NHS; do we open it up to competition from US medical companies or do we seek to protect it?

But don't worry, we're taking back control!

Anyone against TTIP on the UK side should be very fearful of what May will sell out as part of her political maneuverings. Anyone worried about the NHS in Tory hands should be quaking in their boots. Anyone who considers themselves fitting on the political spectrum somewhere near George Osborne and David Cameron, let alone anywhere left of that, and voted leave should be hanging their heads in shame. The disasters seen since 2015 have been solely to keep the tory party together, and that's not going to change any time soon.

 

[Howardh]

That's good, I tried to buy some nice olive oil from there for xmas, but the postage was excessive. I'm glad the barriers to trade will vanish :roll:
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On a tradedeal with Trumpton

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38639638


But don't worry, we're taking back control!

Anyone against TTIP on the UK side should be very fearful of what May will sell out as part of her political maneuverings. Anyone worried about the NHS in Tory hands should be quaking in their boots. Anyone who considers themselves fitting on the political spectrum somewhere near George Osborne and David Cameron, let alone anywhere left of that, and voted leave should be hanging their heads in shame. The disasters seen since 2015 have been solely to keep the tory party together, and that's not going to change any time soon.

Don't forget, all these politicians and civil servants who will now be selliing our former wonderful country off to to the Americans, Chinese and Indians for peanuts will all be free to leave after Brexit and take their gold-plated pensions with them.
As for us poor sods left behind in the mess....:cry:
Wonder if Sudan's up for taking a million UK refugees??

 

[Senex]

Don't forget, all these politicians and civil servants who will now be selliing our former wonderful country off to to the Americans, Chinese and Indians for peanuts will all be free to leave after Brexit and take their gold-plated pensions with them.
As for us poor sods left behind in the mess....:cry:
Wonder if Sudan's up for taking a million UK refugees??

Funny, isn't it, how any form of control, or even influence, from the EU is a thoroughly bad thing, but control by US multi-national companies is absolutely fine.

 

[Trog]

Don't worry about trade deals, there was talk of a brilliant trade deal with the manufacturing powerhouse of New Zealand.

Surely a trade deal with a country with complimentary economics is a good idea. In that hopefully we can trade our goods for their food, rather than just making it easier to compete with the other party on like for like goods. It would be nice from this point of view if New Zealand was bigger, but it is a start.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Surely a trade deal with a country with complimentary economics is a good idea. In that hopefully we can trade our goods for their food, rather than just making it easier to compete with the other party on like for like goods. It would be nice from this point of view if New Zealand was bigger, but it is a start.

And of course, deciding that it's better to trade with, and therefore ship goods to/from, a country on literally the opposite side of the Earth (New Zealand is virtually as far from the UK as it's possible to be on our globe) in preference to trading with a country just 20 miles off our cost makes perfect economic and environmental sense, doesn't it. :roll:

 

[furnessvale]

And of course, deciding that it's better to trade with, and therefore ship goods to/from, a country on literally the opposite side of the Earth (New Zealand is virtually as far from the UK as it's possible to be on our globe) in preference to trading with a country just 20 miles off our cost makes perfect economic and environmental sense, doesn't it. :roll:

Without access to the full rates it is difficult to be certain, but it is by no means a done deal that a single standard lorry load from London to Poland or vv is cheaper than the same load being carried by a VLCC ship to Australia or the far east.

 

[miami]

What city are brexiteers in?

Cairo - they're all in De Nile.
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I see there are stories on the bbc website covering the reaction from leaders of SNP, Lib Dem, and Sinn Fein.


Where the foxtrot is the labour opposition?

 

[radamfi]

I don't believe May seriously wants to leave the single market, given that such a large proportion of business wants to stay in, including many who wanted to leave the EU but stay in the single market. I can only assume that she is saying the things necessary to keep the Brexiters quiet for now.

 

[me123]

1. Provide certainty about the process of leaving the EU

So they don't know the process yet? They should have been able to do this from day 1.

2. Control of our own laws

We already had that.

3. Strengthen the Union between the four nations of the United Kingdom

That's going well. At least two of the constituent nations are likely to very seriously consider (if not actually vote upon) leaving the Union.

4. Maintain the Common Travel Area with Ireland

See above. May not be possible, depending upon the political situation in NI (the recently announced snap election in the North could really influence the political future of the Emerald Isle).

5. Control of immigration coming from the EU

Which will mean reciprocal controls for UK citizens entering the EU. That's fine, as long as we realise that. Expect longer waits at passport control when you jet off for some European sunshine - we're not going to be waved through any more (which, again, is fine as long as you realise that).

6. Rights for the EU nationals and British nationals in the EU

What does this mean? What a meaningless statement. Maintain? Introduce? That's not a plan.

7. Protect workers' rights

With the Conservatives at the helm, I highly doubt it. In medicine for example, the Royal College of Surgeons is already excited about the removal of the EU working hours directive. Trainee surgeons... not so much.

8. Free trade with European markets through a free trade agreement

We had that. It was working quite nicely. We have to negotiate to get back to where we were.

9. New trade agreements with other countries

I worry that this means closer ties with the US. In less than 72 hours, the USA will be run by a man aptly described by the German newspaper Hamburger Morgenpost as a "Horror Clown".

10. The best place for science and innovation

The science community doesn't agree with this. Science thrives with open borders and a collaborative environment. Leaving the EU doesn't naturally lend itself to this.

11. Co-operation in the fight against crime and terrorism

...was much easier within the EU (see things like the European Arrest Warrant). Many in the europhobic circles do not like this, and would not want to cooperate with the EU nations. Another example of us having to renegotiate to getting back to where we were.

12. A smooth, orderly Brexit

Another meaningless statement.

Is this what Mrs May's been working on for six months? This is pathetic. I appreciate that she's had the worst hand to play since Winston Churchill, but I'd have expected a lot more than twelve silly soundbites.

At least we know that we're going to leave the single market - not that that's a good thing, but at least we know where we stand. Which is a very slight improvement.
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Where the foxtrot is the labour opposition?

There is no Labour opposition. They're too busy trying to work out how to survive, so much so that they're becoming increasingly irrelevant with every passing day.

 

[Johnuk123]

Sky Poll tonight :

Happy to be leaving the single market - 51%
Not happy - 39%
Haven't a clue - 10%

 

[WelshBluebird]

You know what, despite my massive opposition to Brexit, if May actually does succeed on the 12 points I'll be fairly happy. Of course, the reality is that it is very unlikely. Especially as a few of the points of are pretty much contradictions or things that simply are not going to happen in any actual real world.

 

[Busaholic]

I don't believe May seriously wants to leave the single market, given that such a large proportion of business wants to stay in, including many who wanted to leave the EU but stay in the single market. I can only assume that she is saying the things necessary to keep the Brexiters quiet for now.

She is so obsessed with limiting immigration, both full movement of labour within the EU and every other type, she'll go along with anything that achieves this or, rather, she won't go along with anything that denies her obsession being achieved. It would appear that, as unelected PM, she actually has more power to achieve her aims than the President-Elect does in his country. An extremely troubling turn of events. Let's have a referendum on scrapping referenda

 

[EM2]

Sky Poll tonight :

Happy to be leaving the single market - 51%
Not happy - 39%
Haven't a clue - 10%

I'd be interested to see a poll to see how many actually understand what the single market is.

 

[me123]

Sky Poll tonight :

Happy to be leaving the single market - 51%
Not happy - 39%
Haven't a clue - 10%

To be interpreted with extreme caution. Have a look at the original data.

It captures a sample of Sky customers only, which is not necessarily a representative sample of the UK as a whole (for one thing, their products are quite expensive so less affluent individuals are likely to be underrepresented). t uses SMS polling, and I'm not sure if that's the most accurate. The question "do you support leaving the single market?" could be misinterpreted (particularly by text message) as "do you support the single market?". The organisation running the poll has an inherent bias.

I think we need more data from a variety of sources.

 

[Howardh]

To be interpreted with extreme caution. Have a look at the original data.

It captures a sample of Sky customers only, which is not necessarily a representative sample of the UK as a whole (for one thing, their products are quite expensive so less affluent individuals are likely to be underrepresented). t uses SMS polling, and I'm not sure if that's the most accurate. The question "do you support leaving the single market?" could be misinterpreted (particularly by text message) as "do you support the single market?". The organisation running the poll has an inherent bias.

I think we need more data from a variety of sources.

I Would Say This Wouldn't I ..... but that seems a very dodgy poll!! Sky subscribers only?? Wonder if they will poll "The European" readers afterwards

Think the key response to May's speech will be the next set of by and council elections. And even so, those aren't particularly reliable.

 

[miami]

From memory I believe sky is far more popular in C2DE households than ABC1 households.

 

[anme]

I think we all know what that statement means, undisguised threats are rather pathetic but are the only things that bad losers can come up with.

I meant that we shouldn't allow people to say it was a "protest vote". Leave voters must take responsibility for the full implications of what they have done. Don't you agree?