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London to Wick direct

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Zamracene749

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While we are on fantasy rail services, why not Edinburgh/Newcastle-ECML-Sheffield- Nottingham-Leicester continuing to London?

This would link the big MML towns(with universities etc) direct to the north east and scotland; maybe a couple of journeys a day removing the current need for one or two changes.

180s would do as traction, or perhaps mk3s with top and tail?
 
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LilLoaf

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There is a little shop / buffet area on the 180's. I would say that they are better than the voyagers.

Wick - Inverness has a perthetic service level because some say that there are no paths available, well i've just found at least 2.



Maybe once my railway company gets the go ahead from DaFT i can buy new trains. I see it now "The LilLoaf Connect Express". Go ahead from DaFt, ooh i've just seen some flying pigs !!
 

Techniquest

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I'd say Inverness to Thurso and Wick gets a poor service because quite frankly it doesn't need hourly or 2-hourly trains if you ask me.
 

LilLoaf

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While we are on fantasy rail services, why not Edinburgh/Newcastle-ECML-Sheffield- Nottingham-Leicester continuing to London?

This would link the big MML towns(with universities etc) direct to the north east and scotland; maybe a couple of journeys a day removing the current need for one or two changes.

180s would do as traction, or perhaps mk3s with top and tail?

I like that idea sounds good ! There might be a chance to run an Open Access company without going into London. Maybe a Leeds - Skipton - Carlisle - Glasgow (as already mentioned) but then onto Mallaig and Oban.

OR

Mallaig / Oban - Glasgow - Newcastle - York - Leeds via Barnsley to Sheffield (reverse) Via Brigg to Cleethorpes.
 

Craig

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How about Whitby - Middlesborough - York - Leeds - Skipton - Heysham - Lancaster - Warrington - Chester - Llandudno :?:

:p
 

curly42

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Just out of interest,how would you crew the trains on the supposed London - Wick service ? The traincrew leaving London would get relief at .... ?
 

Techniquest

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Or an Aberdeen > Dundee > Perth > Inverness > Inverurie > Stonehaven (not stopping at Aberdeen!) > Kirkcaldy > Edinburgh > Carstairs > Motherwell > Ashfield > Glasgow Queen Street > Fort William?

:lol:
 

Craig

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Ideally I think the most sucessful route would be Wick - Georgemass Junction via Penzance and Grays.

There is a reason the wick line has a bad service, it serves places of little population and isn't well used (passenger count wise)! Hence the cheap as muck fares and bad service. No benefit at all! Plenty of paths but no point.

Your timings are completely off too. You still haven't answered which Glasgow Terminus and how Motherwell to Perth will routed in 1 hour.

All coming from someone who can't spell "Pathetic".
 

route:oxford

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How you do you plan to route Motherwell to Perth in 1 hour (nigh on impossible).

Motherwell to Perth... Via Cumbernauld.

Using best timetabled timings...

Motherwell to Cumbernauld - 23 minutes
Cumbernauld to Camelon - 13 minutes
Larbert to Stirling - 9 minutes
Stirling to Perth - 27 minutes

So, knocking off 2 minutes from the C-C section as I'm sure it's a bit shorter/quicker into Larbert - it's a straight line for a start...

That adds up to 1h10m. 10 minutes obviously makes a great deal of difference for pathing, but is fine for a rough guess within wishful thinking.

How do you propose a run in that time to Central and how do you propose a run from Glasgow QS to the west coast?

Isn't Queen Street to the South quite straightforward? The Cowlairs Chord springs to mind...
 

LilLoaf

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Just out of interest,how would you crew the trains on the supposed London - Wick service ? The traincrew leaving London would get relief at .... ?

Crew change points could be Carlisle, Glasgow, Perth, Inverness.

I like the idea's of the East - West link service.

The times are not "way off" just need tweaked a bit, thats all. Glasgow - Perth can be done in a hour if non stop.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Motherwell to Perth... Via Cumbernauld.

Using best timetabled timings...

Motherwell to Cumbernauld - 23 minutes
Cumbernauld to Camelon - 13 minutes
Larbert to Stirling - 9 minutes
Stirling to Perth - 27 minutes

So, knocking off 2 minutes from the C-C section as I'm sure it's a bit shorter/quicker into Larbert - it's a straight line for a start...

That adds up to 1h10m. 10 minutes obviously makes a great deal of difference for pathing, but is fine for a rough guess within wishful thinking.



Isn't Queen Street to the South quite straightforward? The Cowlairs Chord springs to mind...

I was thinking that but wasn't sure if the track was still there.
 

me123

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See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thames-Clyde_Express

When Northern (or was it Arrive back then?) ran Leeds - Glasgow, the services were fairly well loaded whenever I used the service. As you've said, running through to Hull or somewhere would probably increase usage. A service like this would be well suited to a 22x as they'd have have speeds for the WCML good acceleration for the S&C. Good pathing combined with limited stops on the S&C could produce fairly fast timings too.

I know of the old train, but that's of no use now that the Virgin and National Express routes are so well established and are much faster. No point duplicating Sheffield to London either, which has a good service (well... let's not go there...)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Don't think you'd get a crew from London-Carlisle.

Queen Street to the South is possible, but not a great route. You'd be crossing over the city quite a lot and it's really not a feasible passenger route. Also, Queen Street's getting quite congested from what I understand.

Motherwell-Stirling via Coatbridge will take a while because the line speed is quite slow, but it's not impossible in an hour.

And remember that the Far North Line isn't a great line! As has been said, there's a reason it doesn't have half hourly trains along the full route; it's length and the fact it runs through the middle of nowhere! The reason there aren't many paths is because there's no point investing in more passing loops.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The big part missing from the network, IMO, is a NW-SE XC service.
 

Donny Dave

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a few simple services that need introducing (not all stops included, some required infrastructure improvements):

Kings X-Peterborough-Grantham-Nottingham (wired for FCC)

Kings X-Peterborough-Spalding-Sleaford-Lincoln (wired for FCC)

Lot of wires for moving not a lot of people around

Kings X-Dcaster-Leeds-Bradford F Square
hourly alternating with
Kings X-Dcaster-Leeds-Skipton

Already planned to happen with NXEC

Kings X-York-Knaresborough-Harrogate
alternating hourly with Hull service, also wired

Once again, already planned by NXEC, but they will be serving Lincoln instead

Kings X-Dcaster-Rotherham-Sheffield (wired for NXEC)

Will not happen for the simple fact there will be at least a 10 minute wait at Doncaster for the reversal, and there isn't the spare capacity for that, plus the Doncaster - Sheffield Corridor is well served already

Kings X-Pboro-York-Scarborough

Kings X-Pboro-York-Northallerton-Middlesbrough
alternating hourly with Sunderland service

Possible, but what about TPE who already have hourly services to Scarborough and Middlesborough? Also there will be no improvements in journey times

Leeds-Bradford Int-Halifax-Brighouse-Huddersfield-Dewsbury-Leeds

Leeds-Harrogate-Knaresbrough-York-Leeds

You can already make those journeys

Leeds-Wakefield Westgate-Rotherham Central-Sheffield

Already quite well served, with a mix of fast and slow journeys
 

Pumbaa

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Yes I agree with me123 - a Dover > South London > Reading > Bham > NW service would be potentially well used. Although the introduction of SE Javelins should make it relatively easy to get into London, and thenceforth onwards. Albeit expensive.
 

LilLoaf

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Another service could be a London Euston - Preston - Lancaster - Barrow - Whitehaven - Workington.

Or a Edinburgh - Newcastle - Leeds - Manchester - Holyhead.
 

me123

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I can see an hourly service alternating between Scarborough and Harrogate being a good option. A direct link is great for communities.
 

scrapy

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How about Manchester Piccadilly - Chesterfield - East Midlands Parkway - Loughborough - Leicester - Kettering - Bedford - Luton - Luton Airport Parkway - St Albans - London St Pancreas, run by either EMT or an open access operator?

Benefits

Would allow connections from Greater Manchester to East Midlands and Luton Airports or Eurostar at St Pancras.

Would give St Albans direct services to the North.

A big thing was made recently about new direct services from Leeds to Nottingham which were two major cities until recently not connected by rail. Surely Leicester and Manchester fall into the same category with no direct services?

Would offer a faster service Manchester to Chesterfield (no reversal at Sheffield)

Possible additional stops

Manchester Victoria (if no capacity at Piccadilly)
Bredbury (park and ride from M60), close to Stockport (platform length may be an issue)
Marple
Alfreton
Market Harborough
Wellingborough


I was disapointed Midland Mainline Manchester to St Pancras was discontinued when wcml was finished, but surely this would be viable if rolling stock could be found.
 

me123

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How about Manchester Piccadilly - Chesterfield - East Midlands Parkway - Loughborough - Leicester - Kettering - Bedford - Luton - Luton Airport Parkway - St Albans - London St Pancreas, run by either EMT or an open access operator?

The new link to London St. Pancreas then links to London St. Duodenum via Vater Parkway. Links onto St. Jejunum station are also available as an extension from the St. Duodenum services.
 

djw1981

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Do you Far North paths allow for the freight? WHL needs to as well.

Queen St is 'full' now due to EGIP, hence why the Cumbernauld services will be diverted to low level once electrification occurs.

Nottingham - Glasgow is proposed (Glasgow Trains by Renaissance Trains) as is Glasgow - Liverpool.

Cardiff - Cambridge should be a core XC route..it is sad that it is not.

How about an electrifed Heathrow - Birmingham and Gatwick - Birmingham,. Build new runway at Birmingham International, and have 3 London airports. IIRC Frankfurt and Berlin airports are almost an hour by rail from the city (as Birmingham International is)
 

djw1981

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The new link to London St. Pancreas then links to London St. Duodenum via Vater Parkway. Links onto St. Jejunum station are also available as an extension from the St. Duodenum services.

That is so bad that I feel you should be beaten until you go back to learning the block 3 mantra 'poverty affects health'
 

me123

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Block 4 now (We've already done Block 6 as Block 3 thanks to semesterization).

It's a pet peeve of mine that E in St. Pancras.
 

djw1981

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And which Voyager trips take 12 hours? :?

1108 Edinburgh - Penzance (arr 2204) Journey time 10.56 which with XC punctuality can easy be 12hrs.. I accept that there are no timetabled services though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Block 4 now (We've already done Block 6 as Block 3 thanks to semesterization).

It's a pet peeve of mine that E in St. Pancras.

Craziness.... is that why you lot didn't start this term until the middle of the month :roll: and now you aren't even putting the books away properly :P
 

me123

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Don't blame me; I've got better things to be doing than sitting in the SL all night!

Still, we're doing better than Stirling "Uni" who apparently don't go back until half way through February :shock:
 

djw1981

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Yeah but they got the full 15 week semester including exams in before christmas, thus they only have a 15 week semester 2 to do, and given they have exams in may, no need to return til Feb. Glasgow (as normal) went for a half @r$ed version.

This is my point, First years should go into the Sl late and tidy up after the 5th years who are getting homicidal!
 

Mintona

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1108 Edinburgh - Penzance (arr 2204) Journey time 10.56 which with XC punctuality can easy be 12hrs.. I accept that there are no timetabled services though.

Sorry, he said Virgin, I didn't even think about XC, only West Coast. No wonder I couldn't think of any trips nearly that long :lol:
 

D841

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a few simple services that need introducing (not all stops included, some required infrastructure improvements):

Leeds-Wakefield Westgate-Rotherham Central-Sheffield

This route already enjoys an hourly stopping service! I'm not convinced that it needs an additional fast one. There's no path available for one anyway, which is why the Leeds - Nottingham service goes via Wakefield Kirkgate and Barnsley.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Yeah - impossible timings, plus no-one really wants to go to Wick on a daily basis from London. Virgin won't allow you to stop in their territory really, and well, it's a crap idea.

Virgin's Moderation Of Competition agreement would kill the idea stone dead.
 
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LilLoaf

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Maybe a Leeds - Sheffiled - Nottingham - Skegness could be a possibilty, i believe they tried this once with a pair of 150's in the early 90's.

Seems to me that there is the possibilty for a lot of open access routes. Picked could time to start this thread like right in the middle of a reccession, none of these idea's will ever get past the forum, but its good to throw idea's around.
 

Techniquest

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Sorry, he said Virgin, I didn't even think about XC, only West Coast. No wonder I couldn't think of any trips nearly that long :lol:

Even worse than the EDB - PNZ that was quoted would be the 0820 Aberdeen to Penzance. Even worse, on Saturdays from 28th March, when the Bristol to Taunton block's on, it has to go via Westbury, so reaches Penzance at 2309. 13 hours and 49 minutes. THE longest single journey in the UK. And of course, it's Voyager-booked.

I had been tempted to do that throughout until recently, when experiencing proper HSTs again for the first time this year and comparing 221126 to them later made me realise just how horrible the Voyagers are. I don't know if even I could survive the full journey!
 

Mcr Warrior

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Are there still services by FGW that go upto Fishguard Harbour to connect with the Sea crossings?

:p Table 128 of the National Timetable shows details of the couple of train services operated by Arriva Trains Wales each day to/from Fishguard Harbour, also the onward/inward sailing times from Fishguard to/from Rosslare. <<Link>>
 
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