Wishlist for Upcoming Franchise Competitions

[Mordac]

Just starting this thread so we can share what we'd like to see on the upcoming franchise renewals: most immediately relevant SWT and LM, but also coming soon will be Southeastern and EMT.

I'll start by saying that I know this is unlikely to be proposed/accepted, but I'd really like to see all day services from Northampton to Crewe via the Trent Valley restored, even if it's just one per hour. Currently getting anywhere north of Northampton that's not Birmingham is a pain.

 

[Hartington]

Electrification from Basingstoke to Exeter and reinstatement of more passing loops/double track west of Salisbury to provide a robust, all day, half hourly service.

Logically that also means electrification of Salisbury/Westbury/Castle Cary/Yeovil (both)/Weymouth and Westbury/Bath so that the various ORCATS raider (and franchise) SWT services don't need diesel trains. Then all that's left is Salisbury/Eastleigh and Southampton.

 

[swt_passenger]

Electrification from Basingstoke to Exeter and reinstatement of more passing loops/double track west of Salisbury to provide a robust, all day, half hourly service.

Logically that also means electrification of Salisbury/Westbury/Castle Cary/Yeovil (both)/Weymouth and Westbury/Bath so that the various ORCATS raider (and franchise) SWT services don't need diesel trains. Then all that's left is Salisbury/Eastleigh and Southampton.

Infrastructure improvements such as you propose have nothing whatsoever to do with the current franchising process for the Sourhwestern..

 

[swrailuser]

Overhead power would be a great idea for the line west of basingstoke but there a number of issues the further west you get with the restriction of the track width at Templecombe and Crewkerne as they have moved the platforms and bridges
Then you have serious issues of flooding between Honiton and EXeter that regularly screw up the services even now after the doubling of the tracks to enable the services to Axminster
After electrification then would come issue of dual voltage stock being sourced so that the services could be maintained, preferably as fixed 4-6 car sets that provide a better service than a diesel 3 car set 159.
if the salisbury - southampton section was to be electrified then this would have to be extended to bath and currently this will not happen with current cockup on the GWML electrification, with the rest of the cinderella services in the SW

 

[The Ham]

For SWT I would like to see the following:
- either new bimodal trains (5 coaches) or use of 185's (in addition to the existing fleet) to preview extra seats and extra services.
- hourly service to Bristol (splitting from Exeter services at Salisbury)
- extension of all other services to at least Yeovil
- extension of some services to Weymouth from Yeovil (only slightly slower than going direct circa 3:05 vs circa 2:40 and 2:55, but would be faster than changing trains on the WofE line and than waiting for the next service at most stations, possibly all depending on times).
- use of units detached at Salisbury (Yeovil/Weymouth services) to run the Salisbury 6 (Salisbury, Southampton, Eastleigh, Romsey route), at least in peak hours, to provide direct services to/from London.
- more early morning services heading west, including allowing connections to some of the early morning XC services at Basingstoke (the earliest arrival from Fleet is 7am, which isn't that early really)
- changes to the Guildford - Ascot services to enable a Farnham - Guildford service
- splitting of metro services (I.e. at Ashted) to provide a more frequent service further out (I.e 3 or 4 tph between Guildford and Epsom).
- removal of buffet area from the 444's to increase seating capacity (I'd guess 12 to 16 extra seats per unit)
- extension of some of the Woking stoppers to Basingstoke and the rest to Guildford to provide a better interchange between those two lines (at present those traveling between say Fleet and Guildford depending on working hours can have limited options)
There is also quite a lot of local flows of traffic to/from Farnborough which could move off the Faster London services to improve losing/unloading times.
- more use of splitting services at Guildford to provide improved frequencies of services and/or improved journey times as well as more seats, as off peak the are some fairly busy 4 coach services

 

[LLivery]

For Southeastern:
1. Ldn Victoria - Orpington additionally calls at Clapham High Street
2. Increase said service to every 15 mins on Sundays. Its currently a packed half hourly 6-8 car service.
3. Consider two extra tph between Lewisham and Ldn Victoria by diverting a Hayes, Sidcup or Orpington via Grove Park service from Cannon St or an extra service between Victoria and Beckenham Jun via Catford Bridge.
4. Real investment in London stations, re-open boarded up buildings, new CISs, benches etc.
5. Consider introducing an hourly direct Kent to Gatwick service
6. Stone Crossing, Greenhithe and down to Sevenoaks in the travelcard zones.

Pie in the sky wishes:
7. I know not their call but re-name Stratford Int and Ebbsfleet Int. Stratford High Speed and Ebbsfleet Garden City maybe?
8. Brand to the London & South Eastern Railway
9. Make all operations in London be integrated with TfL service updates, maps, etc. Whether TfL like it or not, rejecting some help to integration seems wrong for a Transport Authority. If Glasgow and Barcelona can do it, no reason why TfL can't or shouldn't.

 

[Masbroughlad]

Extension of SWT Exeter services to Paignton, Plymouth and Penzance again.
Catering back on long distance LM trains
EMT to bring back/ introduce London servies to Burton, Matlock, Rotherham, Barnsley and to revisit frequent through services to Leeds.

 

[urpert]

For Southeastern:
1. Ldn Victoria - Orpington additionally calls at Clapham High Street
2. Increase said service to every 15 mins on Sundays. Its currently a packed half hourly 6-8 car service.
3. Consider two extra tph between Lewisham and Ldn Victoria by diverting a Hayes, Sidcup or Orpington via Grove Park service from Cannon St or an extra service between Victoria and Beckenham Jun via Catford Bridge.
4. Real investment in London stations, re-open boarded up buildings, new CISs, benches etc.
5. Consider introducing an hourly direct Kent to Gatwick service
6. Stone Crossing, Greenhithe and down to Sevenoaks in the travelcard zones.

Pie in the sky wishes:
7. I know not their call but re-name Stratford Int and Ebbsfleet Int. Stratford High Speed and Ebbsfleet Garden City maybe?
8. Brand to the London & South Eastern Railway
9. Make all operations in London be integrated with TfL service updates, maps, etc. Whether TfL like it or not, rejecting some help to integration seems wrong for a Transport Authority. If Glasgow and Barcelona can do it, no reason why TfL can't or shouldn't.

Agreed with all of the above. Add a full refurb for the 465s (comparable to Southern/SWT's 455 refurb). Vic services need to be 8-car as much as possible at least Mon-Fri.

 

[Mordac]

More wishes for the West Midlands franchise in addition to my OP:
-Bin the 319s
-Get rid of 3+2 sitting on the 350/2s
-Make up for the foregoing by getting some Class 700 variant for services starting south of Milton Keynes
-Bin the 153s (and 150s if they turn out not to go to Northern immediately) and replace them with Civities, with an order big enough to allow for capacity increases on DMU operated services

 

[Class 170101]

For LM I would want to see the following

Class 350/4s go to the Franchise.
Class 319s to come to the franchise for extra capacity on Northampton to London services as soon as possible as a precursor to new Class 700s coming to the Franchise.
A second 110mph service between London and the Trent Valley. Arguably I would avoid Northampton and instead provide good connections at Rugby.
Services linked across Birmingham and Northampton where possible.

Earlier service from Hereford to Birmingham and a later service from Birmingham to Hereford. Similar concept for Stratford Upon Avon.

Possibly an hourly service to Gloucester via Worcester Parkway unless Cross Country can provide it via an extension of one of their terminating services at Birmingham from Leicester or Nottingham.

For Cross Country
Earlier services between urban centres like Derby to Birmingham, Leicester and Birmingham and Cardiff and Birmingham.
3rd Hourly service between Birmingham and York. (Destinations south and north up for debate).
Lease of additional HSTs as a precursor to new trains in mid 2020s.
Hourly service from Plymouth or the south coast to Scotland via Birmingham and Preston.

For EMT
The Sixth service to operate to Manchester calling at Luton, Bedford, Kettering, Leicester, East Mid Parkway, Derby, Chesterfield, Stockport and Manchester. I would also consider a stop in the peak District (in the Hope Valley).
Extend the fast Nottingham service to Leeds via Alfreton, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Rotherham, Wakefield Westgate and Leeds.
Unfortunately services to Matlock wouldn't be viable due to the heavier trains now in use or being built for Intercity services.
Extend the fast Sheffield service to / from Barnsley once or twice a day and better connections the rest of the time.

 

[ABB125]

For the Cross-Country franchise, I would like to see the trains that currently terminate at Birmingham extended south, to Worcester or Gloucester, and calling at smaller stations such as Ashchurch.

 

[J-2739]

SouthEastern to operate 12 car fixed form trains on its main artery routes into its London Termini. Something akin to a Desiro City.

Extend the fast Sheffield service to / from Barnsley once or twice a day and better connections the rest of the time.

I very much agree. It was time Barnsley got its direct London service back. They might need to secure shorter DMUs for that route though.

 

[Class 170101]

I very much agree. It was time Barnsley got its direct London service back. They might need to secure shorter DMUs for that route though.

Pair of Class 222s - front unit forward to Barnsley perhaps?

Post wiring to Sheffield pair of AT300s.

 

[XCTurbostar]

I'd like to London Midland Introduce Class 319s around Birmingham and CrossCountry to get more SSD-BHM services stopping at my local, Hinckley.

Thanks,
Ross

 

[43074]

For EMT
The Sixth service to operate to Manchester calling at Luton, Bedford, Kettering, Leicester, East Mid Parkway, Derby, Chesterfield, Stockport and Manchester. I would also consider a stop in the peak District (in the Hope Valley).

Lack of capacity between Wigston and Kettering mean it is more than likely that the 6th path will run to Corby, any Manchester service would probably start in Leicester, but a direct Leicester - Derby - Manchester service would be good.

Extend the fast Nottingham service to Leeds via Alfreton, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Rotherham, Wakefield Westgate and Leeds.

Why? The Northern service by 2020 will be much faster, more sensible to extend the Sheffield semi-fast service to Leeds, a better policy would be providing faster services to Nottingham.

Unfortunately services to Matlock wouldn't be viable due to the heavier trains now in use or being built for Intercity services.

And the demand doesn't exist anyway

Extend the fast Sheffield service to / from Barnsley once or twice a day and better connections the rest of the time.

There are plenty of local services between Barnsley and Sheffield (4tph) which offer frequent connections at Sheffield, running only a marginal service would be a waste of time and money, better for the franchise to concentrate on their core business.

I'd like to London Midland Introduce Class 319s around Birmingham and CrossCountry to get more SSD-BHM services stopping at my local, Hinckley.

Unlikely, XC wouldn't slow the service even more then necessary by adding extra stops.

 

[maniacmartin]

I would like no franchise requirements that are likely to cause prolonged industrial action

 

[Iskra]

I would like EMT to be required to introduce a new fleet of Intercity trains, so that the 222's can be transferred to XC and subsequently solve a lot of their problems.

 

[Mordac]

For LM I would want to see the following

A second 110mph service between London and the Trent Valley. Arguably I would avoid Northampton and instead provide good connections at Rugby.

But as I alluded to earlier, that destroys any Northbound connectivity from Northampton to anywhere that's not Birmingham. Take getting from here to Leicester. It's a very easy journey on the M1, but if I want to do it by rail, I have the choice of changing at Rugby to change a miles later at Nuneaton--one change being enough to turn a significant amount of people away, never mind two--or go all the way to Birmingham to then double back on myself to get to Leicester. This is true of pretty much any connection to the rest of the East Midlands and the North East.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For LM I would want to see the following

Class 350/4s go to the Franchise.
Class 319s to come to the franchise for extra capacity on Northampton to London services as soon as possible as a precursor to new Class 700s coming to the Franchise.

Rather than 700s coming to LM, I'd rather the Trent Valley services and Liverpool-Birminghams be run using 160m-ish InterCity FLIRTs like the East Anglia services, and the released Desiros to beef up the existing fleet.

 

[Suraggu]

For South West Trains I would personally like to see,

:- A new fleet of EDMU's with corridor connections to replace the Class 158/159 fleet which can be cascaded to other franchises.
:- An new sub fleet of the Class 707 built as 10 cars to replace the class 455 and displace a smaller fleet Class 456 to Bournemouth Depot for the 'Lymington Flyer'.
:- With the increase of trains extend the Woking stoppers to Basingstoke and Guildford.
:- Additional early morning service from Salisbury to London Waterloo.
:- All Waterloo -Reading minimum 8 car (450) or 10 car (458).

 

[MK Tom]

Fairly simple wish for XC - minimum 3 car operation on Leicester, Nottingham and Cardiff services. Ideally I'd want to see them take on a ton of HSTs from other operators and cascade Voyagers onto the currently Turbostar operated routes. The 170s just aren't enough for these routes now.

For LM, a half hourly Crewe service with one running via Northampton. This would also give Northampton an hourly Euston service calling at MKC only.
Also Bedford services extended to MKC with reversal at Bletchley. It really isn't that hard.

EMT I would like to see more Corby services extended towards Oakham and beyond.

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I would like EMT to be required to introduce a new fleet of Intercity trains, so that the 222's can be transferred to XC and subsequently solve a lot of their problems.

222s and Voyagers can't interwork can they?

 

[Iskra]

Fairly simple wish for XC - minimum 3 car operation on Leicester, Nottingham and Cardiff services. Ideally I'd want to see them take on a ton of HSTs from other operators and cascade Voyagers onto the currently Turbostar operated routes. The 170s just aren't enough for these routes now.

For LM, a half hourly Crewe service with one running via Northampton. This would also give Northampton an hourly Euston service calling at MKC only.
Also Bedford services extended to MKC with reversal at Bletchley. It really isn't that hard.

EMT I would like to see more Corby services extended towards Oakham and beyond.

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222s and Voyagers can't interwork can they?

Not as far as I know, but they wouldn't need to. Both can self rescue in most situations and they could just operate in formations of either 220/221 or 222 or singularly, giving a massive capacity increase, allowing a huge internal cascade and dispensing with the HST's.

 

[Roast Veg]

Fairly simple wish for XC - minimum 3 car operation on Leicester, Nottingham and Cardiff services. Ideally I'd want to see them take on a ton of HSTs from other operators and cascade Voyagers onto the currently Turbostar operated routes. The 170s just aren't enough for these routes now.

Agreed, capacity on the Leicester and the Nottingham-Cardiff services are no longer suitable for these units, taking on HST sets would make the whole franchise better. The displaced turbostars would also be snapped up by another operator right away.

EMT I would like to see more Corby services extended towards Oakham and beyond.

Beyond to where? The electric services will only go that far, and as much as I agree that 222 operations would be worth extending, I can't think of a place for them to go that wouldn't be better served via Leicester towards the north.

Maybe have the Nottingham to Leicester stoppers extended to Corby by turning them around at Leicester? They still have to call at Syston at least so avoiding Leicester seems unlikely. Wouldn't require many extra units, and gives Corby much better connections.

 

[the sniper]

I'd like to London Midland Introduce Class 319s around Birmingham

Why? They're slower, older, much less reliable and have a worse passenger environment than either of the current two EMUs used in Birmingham... Given that there are 10 350/4 and 17 323s fairly freely available to the WM franchise, it's not like there aren't better options available! Won't the Cl.360s and Cl.333s be available soon too? The only place 319s should be going is to the scrap men.

I'd rather the Trent Valley services and Liverpool-Birminghams be run using 160m-ish InterCity FLIRTs like the East Anglia services, and the released Desiros to beef up the existing fleet.

Surely HS2 will free up 390s for services like those in future, if necessary? Personally, for the variable work they do, 350/1/3/4 seem to be absolutely fine, in fact, ideal. You could boost that fleet with 360s, either with new 2+2 seating and tables, working service like the BHM to Liverpool and BHM to Crewe via Stoke, which don't/won't usually use double sets, or with the current seating basically replacing and enhancing the work 319s currently cover on the south WCML.

Outside of the things required by the DfT, an hourly BHM to Gloucester via Worcester would make sense. That might require the LO 172s if they're not accounted for already. I can't imagine anyone else wants them alone as a micro fleet other than Chiltern? You could also cover the Coventry to Leamington/Nuneaton shuttles, and enhance train lengths on the dark side with any that are left over.

 

[The Ham]

Not as far as I know, but they wouldn't need to. Both can self rescue in most situations and they could just operate in formations of either 220/221 or 222 or singularly, giving a massive capacity increase, allowing a huge internal cascade and dispensing with the HST's.

One option could be make the 222's so that they were too long to run in service as pairs of units (say 8 coaches or longer). That way the would be no need to worry about a 222 and a 220/221 turning up to run in service together.

With 89 central coaches you could have 5*10 coach units and 7*9 coach units.

The 10 coach units could cover the current HST services with the 9 coach units covering those services which are current run by double units (comparable to a pair of 221's in terms of seating capacity). That would mean that 14 diagrams which aren't currently run in pairs could be. That would probably be enough to allow all the 220's to be run in pairs on services that run north of Reading and Plymouth but south of York with all other services through the core being a minimum of a single 221.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Why? They're slower, older, much less reliable and have a worse passenger environment than either of the current two EMUs used in Birmingham... Given that there are 10 350/4 and 17 323s fairly freely available to the WM franchise, it's not like there aren't better options available! Won't the Cl.360s and Cl.333s be available soon too? The only place 319s should be going is to the scrap men.

Unless they are thinking of having the 319's in their bimodal version (assuming that works out) to replace DMU's. In doing so it could force the hand of the government to electrify those lines in time for the retirement of the 319's as otherwise it would mean new build DMU's as the one that were in use are now busy on other services. In addition the services will have been run by 4 coach units so that would mean quite a lot of doubled up DMU's to provide sufficient capacity making finding enough an even harder task.

 

[sk688]

For LM

3-4 TPH Euston - Tring

Taking over MKC - Croydon from Southern

Gaining 360s ( from AGA and HEC ) as well as 350/4 from TPE

319s to be kept purely for the Abbey Line

A refurb of the 350/1 (most importantly) and then the 350/2 ( not as important)

Just a wishiist

 

[TheDavibob]

Odd the amount of people who want to add stops to CrossCountry services - I'd much prefer they strip out intermediate stops on the longer distance services and connect up well with intermediate stoppers where possible, rather than the awkward attempt at local and intercity combined we have at the moment.

 

[Ianno87]

EMT - a thorough investigation of the Liverpool-Norwich service and what it is trying to acheive (even if it concludes that what we have already us perfectly fine). Conveying a Cambridge portion, and its diversion via the Dore South curve (with suitable replacement services for Sheffield) would be my two wishes for it. Cambridge-North West is a reasonable flow, but the route via London dominates. Offering a much better journey time via Nottingham could be a revenue-winner for a future franchise. And Cambridge-Nottingham has no direct link at all.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Odd the amount of people who want to add stops to CrossCountry services - I'd much prefer they strip out intermediate stops on the longer distance services and connect up well with intermediate stoppers where possible, rather than the awkward attempt at local and intercity combined we have at the moment.

Often the same people who complain that their XC service is too busy...

 

[dosxuk]

EMT - a new dedicated 5 car DMU fleet for Norwich - Liverpool, with sprinter compatibility and a 100mph top speed. The route isn't going to be fully electrified in the lifespan on a new fleet, and the number of change overs would be a pain with a bimode. If in 20 years time a bimode becomes more appropriate, I'm sure there would be plenty of places to send the fleet. Sprinter compatibility so that a 158/156/170 can be tagged on the end for special events / high flows. Getting the core Manchester-Peterborough section half hourly would be another good plan, which would leave options open for sending one end to Cambridge/Stansted and the other to Blackpool/Chester.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A refurb of the 350/1 (most importantly) and then the 350/2 ( not as important)

The 350/1s direly need new carpets and new seat covers and base cushions - the rest is near enough fine.

Would be nice for the /2s to lose the 3+2 in favour of 2+2, and both classes to have 2+1 fitted in First (give the things proper first class and I may well default to longer journey/higher comfort for travel on the WCML!).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Personally, for the variable work they do, 350/1/3/4 seem to be absolutely fine, in fact, ideal. You could boost that fleet with 360s, either with new 2+2 seating and tables, working service like the BHM to Liverpool and BHM to Crewe via Stoke, which don't/won't usually use double sets, or with the current seating basically replacing and enhancing the work 319s currently cover on the south WCML.

Adding a 5-car subfleet would be quite useful - it would allow lengths of 4, 5, 8, 9, 10 and 12-car to be formed, which would mean lengths could be tailored more to demand. There are quite a lot of LM services where 8 is insufficient, and 12 excessive, and similarly a lot of off-peak services where 4 isn't quite enough but 5 would be adequate.