Passenger Assistance at Staffed Stations

[Antman]

Surely as the customer had booked assistance, then as the station staff were aware they were unable to provide it they would have made alternative arrangements.

If they had not been able to do so, then surely the fallback to provide this is are the staff on the train.

So all the customer needing assistance needed to do was wait until the train arrived and attract the attention of the staff.

As they need assistance then this may require the staff to be more proactive than the customer (i.e. the customer may not be able to walk up and down the platform).

At the end of the day, this cannot be a situation that never occurs so I would expect the company to have a documented procedure to deal with it.

 

[najaB]

Because any member of ticket office staff who doesn't sell a single ticket for over 30 minutes on a regular basis would be investigated and dismissed pretty quickly in an even somewhat organised TOC.

I can imagine it now, ticket office staff watching the clock - it's been 27 minutes since the last ticket was sold. Beads of sweat start running down their faces. Someone comes in "No! Don't go to the TVM!"

 

[kieron]

If no-one here knows what the member of staff was doing when he wasn't serving the customer, then no-one here knows how likely mbreckers would be to successfully catch a train from that station in the future.

With the mistake, the letter from Scotrail doesn't inspire confidence that the problem has even been brought to the attention of an appropriate manager.

 

[Qwerty133]

I'm wondering where you saw the word regular from... As far as this thread implies it is a one off case...

I do find it amusing the number on people here that take any excuse to put staff down. We don't know if the phone call was of an urgent work matter, or if the member of staff wanted to waste time.

What the post was meant to imply was any member of staff who took a 30 minute phone call that isn't an emergency has probably done so more than once, suggesting that there was an emergency at the time.

 

[Antman]

If no-one here knows what the member of staff was doing when he wasn't serving the customer, then no-one here knows how likely mbreckers would be to successfully catch a train from that station in the future.

As I mentioned before, the fact the station staff are unable to provide the booked assistance should be no barrier to travel.

All they need to do is wait for the train to arrive and explain to the train staff they will need to provide the booked assistance the station staff cannot.

Obviously this may require attracting the train staff attention, but it should be obvious to a guard or DOO driver that a customer is trying to board but cannot, and if necessary going to the customer to establish how they can assist.

 

[Llanigraham]

What the post was meant to imply was any member of staff who took a 30 minute phone call that isn't an emergency has probably done so more than once, suggesting that there was an emergency at the time.

But we don't know what the phone call was about, emergency or otherwise!!
Stop jumping to conclusions!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As I mentioned before, the fact the station staff are unable to provide the booked assistance should be no barrier to travel.

All they need to do is wait for the train to arrive and explain to the train staff they will need to provide the booked assistance the station staff cannot.

Obviously this may require attracting the train staff attention, but it should be obvious to a guard or DOO driver that a customer is trying to board but cannot, and if necessary going to the customer to establish how they can assist.

As has been mentioned in another thread, DOO drivers are not required, nor trained to provide assistance for wheelchair bound passengers.

 

[Antman]

As has been mentioned in another thread, DOO drivers are not required, nor trained to provide assistance for wheelchair bound passengers.

That should not be a barrier to them dealing with the customer and making alternative arrangements for them to complete their journey.

 

[AlterEgo]

That should not be a barrier to them dealing with the customer and making alternative arrangements for them to complete their journey.

How would a driver make alternative arrangements for the disabled passenger?

 

[Llanigraham]

That should not be a barrier to them dealing with the customer and making alternative arrangements for them to complete their journey.

Simple question: How?

 

[najaB]

Simple question: How?

The only way I can think of is by getting on the phone to control.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Because any member of ticket office staff who doesn't sell a single ticket for over 30 minutes on a regular basis would be investigated and dismissed pretty quickly in an even somewhat organised TOC.

I guess I, other ticket office staff, passengers who like open ticket offices at their local station and the taxpayer, should be thankful that my TOC, Northern, are such a slack Organisation then, because the bill for hiring and training new staff every week and then firing them straight after they have finished one day in their office (assuming they get that far), for nothing that is within the employee's control, would be enormous! I mean, think about how many extra staff they'd need in the HR department just to deal with the paperwork!

 

[Antman]

Simple question: How?

The only way I can think of is by getting on the phone to control.

By following the protocol that will be set down when a customer requiring has booked it, but for whatever reason the station staff are unavailable to provide it.

This cannot be a once in a century event, so it would be inconceivable the train company would not have plans that would otherwise leave a vulnerable customer needing assistance stranded.

As has been suggested this could be done by contacting someone who could provide assistance or make alternative arrangements.

What would clearly be unacceptable would be to do nothing.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And just to add, assistance they have agreed to provide.

 

[AlterEgo]

By following the protocol that will be set down when a customer requiring has booked it, but for whatever reason the station staff are unavailable to provide it.

This cannot be a once in a century event, so it would be inconceivable the train company would not have plans that would otherwise leave a vulnerable customer needing assistance stranded.

As has been suggested this could be done by contacting someone who could provide assistance or make alternative arrangements.

What would clearly be unacceptable would be to do nothing.

I don't think you know the logistics and practicalities involved.

Drivers cannot assist mobility impaired passengers. They have neither the training nor time to do so. They may also not be able to see a customer needing assistance on the platform; they don't all wear a badge or have a wheelchair, and they may be a considerable distance from the cameras or mirror that the driver is looking at.

If you are suggesting they phone control, this is not a quick phone call. If the customer is not prebooked, or has special needs not captured in the booking, there can be a significant logistical headache that needs solving. Having dealt with booking assistance for passengers in the past, it can be a 10-20 minute phone call in some cases. This cannot happen while the train is being driven.

FWIW, I think TOCs should look at the practicalities of getting drivers to assist passengers, but the practicalities are not easy to overcome and I would not expect progress on that for some years, if it were ever to happen.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Of course, the ToC could employ a member of train crew whose job includes assisting passengers. Then we wouldn't be having these issues!

 

[redbutton]

Just as an aside to the use of mobile phones by platform staff and I obviously do not know the reasons why but, after the evening rush most platform staff at Wimbledon and sometimes Clapham Junc seem to be using there mobiles. This can be the staff sitting in the little platform boxes or staff standing on the platform.
Might be legit work use but it looks extremely unprofessional and can lead to anger as in the OP.

GTR handed out smartphones (the orange ones you often see staff using) last year and encouraged staff to use them to keep informed with service running information and emails from Control. When the service is disrupted, there are a lot of emails to read.

That's why they always seem to be using their mobiles when they're not actively serving a customer or despatching a train.

 

[Antman]

I don't think you know the logistics and practicalities involved.

Drivers cannot assist mobility impaired passengers. They have neither the training nor time to do so. They may also not be able to see a customer needing assistance on the platform; they don't all wear a badge or have a wheelchair, and they may be a considerable distance from the cameras or mirror that the driver is looking at.

If you are suggesting they phone control, this is not a quick phone call. If the customer is not prebooked, or has special needs not captured in the booking, there can be a significant logistical headache that needs solving. Having dealt with booking assistance for passengers in the past, it can be a 10-20 minute phone call in some cases. This cannot happen while the train is being driven.

FWIW, I think TOCs should look at the practicalities of getting drivers to assist passengers, but the practicalities are not easy to overcome and I would not expect progress on that for some years, if it were ever to happen.

I don't believe this is a situation where a company can just ignore a vulnerable customer and leave them stranded, a vulnerable customer where they have specifically agreed to provide assistance.

Obviously the driver would need to be aware of a customer needing assistance, but it should be quite easy for a customer to make a driver or guard aware they are need of assistance, assistance which has not been provided.

The situation may not be quick to resolve, but I would have expected the company would have included this possibility in its risk planning and have designed procedures to minimise any delay.

Delays occur for all sorts of reasons; reasons that fall to the passengers (e.g. falling ill), down to the company (e.g. lack of staff), or act of god. A train company doesn't just kick a sick passenger off onto the tracks as it might cause a delay. This is no different.

A delay where a company has agreed to provide assistance, but then fails to do so, and as a result causes a delay to a train is one they would just have to accept. As such, it would be foolish for them not to have efficient procedures in place to deal with them swiftly.

 

[Llanigraham]

By following the protocol that will be set down when a customer requiring has booked it, but for whatever reason the station staff are unavailable to provide it.

This cannot be a once in a century event, so it would be inconceivable the train company would not have plans that would otherwise leave a vulnerable customer needing assistance stranded.

As has been suggested this could be done by contacting someone who could provide assistance or make alternative arrangements.

What would clearly be unacceptable would be to do nothing.

And just to add, assistance they have agreed to provide.

Do they actually promise to provide the assistance or do they say "if available"?
If the staff are unavailable who else is there? Drivers are not trained to do this. And then we get rid of guards who can/do this!!
It probably doesn't happen very often, but we know from reports here that it does happen occasionally. So yes, sometimes people may get left behind.
Yes you can ring Control, but they could be 100 miles away, and I doubt they could conjure up somebody very quickly, so the only possibly might be to book a suitable taxi, but.................

 

[Antman]

Do they actually promise to provide the assistance or do they say "if available"?

My reading is it is a promise to provide -

"We will always do our best to help disabled passengers that need assistance, but if you need help when travelling by rail, it is best to book assistance in advance so that we can ensure that any help you may need is provided."

"We recommend that you book help 24 hours before you travel. This enables us to: give you as much information as possible before your travel; make alternative arrangements for you if the station is not step free or not staffed at the time you wish to travel; and ensure that there are enough staff for all the assistance requests at a station. Overall, this allows us to provide you with the best possible assistance on the day."

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/disabled_passengers.aspx#TravelAssistance

If the staff are unavailable who else is there? Drivers are not trained to do this. And then we get rid of guards who can/do this!!
It probably doesn't happen very often, but we know from reports here that it does happen occasionally. So yes, sometimes people may get left behind.
Yes you can ring Control, but they could be 100 miles away, and I doubt they could conjure up somebody very quickly, so the only possibly might be to book a suitable taxi, but.................

There are plenty of things that can be done, including as you suggest getting the company to provide a taxi and telling the customer this is what has been done.

What shouldn't happen is someone trying to make it up on the spot, or just shrugging their shoulders and saying "not my problem" and leaving the vulnerable customer behind.

Hence the reason why the train company should design their passenger assistance systems to prevent failure, but to recognise when failure happens there need to be processes in place to deal with it.

 

[Qwerty133]

I guess I, other ticket office staff, passengers who like open ticket offices at their local station and the taxpayer, should be thankful that my TOC, Northern, are such a slack Organisation then, because the bill for hiring and training new staff every week and then firing them straight after they have finished one day in their office (assuming they get that far), for nothing that is within the employee's control, would be enormous! I mean, think about how many extra staff they'd need in the HR department just to deal with the paperwork!

Off topic, but if any ticket office was truly going through regular periods of at least 30 minutes between ticket sales (when a train was due at that) it is probably about time that that particular ticket office was closed or hours were reduced, or the member of staff was moved into a role that also contained other duties.

 

[OneOffDave]

As has been mentioned in another thread, DOO drivers are not required, nor trained to provide assistance for wheelchair bound passengers.

So as DOO gets rolled out across the network, the number of stations that disabled passengers can use reduces dramatically.

For my area that reduces the number of possible stations from 6 to 2 with 30 minute plus journey times to get to either one of them. AS the station nearer London is busier the chances of not being able to get on an individual train increase due to overcrowding. Twice this week I've had to catch a later train due to people pushing on and filling up the vestibule before the member of staff has been able to get the ramp in place. But, hey, it's not like I've not got work to go to or anything.

What I can see happening is, like with buses in the 1980s, a number of disabled people preventing trains from leaving until they are assisted on.

 

[najaB]

So as DOO gets rolled out across the network, the number of stations that disabled passengers can use reduces dramatically.

Possibly but not necessary. DOO doesn't necessarily mean no second member of staff aboard - the Strathclyde model has a ticket examiner on nearly all services. The TfL rail model has all stations staffed from start to end of service.

 

[OneOffDave]

Possibly but not necessary. DOO doesn't necessarily mean no second member of staff aboard - the Strathclyde model has a ticket examiner on nearly all services. The TfL rail model has all stations staffed from start to end of service.

That's why the TfL model works as there are staff (usually) on the stations. The station nearest to my house has a member of staff but they also cover 3 other stations so may be at any of those and I've got no way of telling where they are. Despite booking, on over 40% of all my journeys in November and early December, there was no assistance either from on the train or from station staff so I either got myself on the train or I was assisted on by other passengers.

Because you won't know whether a service will have a second member of staff on board, your options will be to chance it and hope there is and if there isn't wait for the next service to see it that one does and so on or to stop using non-staffed stations which increases the time and cost of travel and also increases the chances of not being able to board a train due to overcrowding. If I lived in a quiet part of the country I could understand this but the station nearest to me has nearly 3 million entrances and exits a year so it's not some backwater.

 

[najaB]

That's why the TfL model works as there are staff (usually) on the stations. The station nearest to my house has a member of staff but they also cover 3 other stations so may be at any of those and I've got no way of telling where they are.

It's the difference between DOO and DOO on the cheap.

 

[OneOffDave]

It's the difference between DOO and DOO on the cheap.

You're not wrong there

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Off topic, but if any ticket office was truly going through regular periods of at least 30 minutes between ticket sales (when a train was due at that) it is probably about time that that particular ticket office was closed or hours were reduced, or the member of staff was moved into a role that also contained other duties.

Ticket office staff at smaller stations typically have more responsibilities than those at larger stations, often including security checks, general 'house keeping' duties, fault reporting, stores and stationary ordering, changing information posters, disabled assistance (where needed), and more besides. And lets not forget that small offices can usually (though not always) issue the same range of tickets, and offer the same advice or information, as a larger ticket office, meaning that even between trains, in an hourly service, it can be possible to not have a minute to move out of the seat, even to make a cup of tea, and still not sell a ticket for over 30 minutes.