Information for GTR Southern passengers during strike (no DOO discussion)

[maniacmartin]

Perhaps Balham was added because of the Tube strike today meaning no Northern service would be running from there

 

[Bishopstone]

Though the PDF on this page of the Southern website says the Lewes-Seaford replacement bus will run every 15 minutes:

http://www.southernrailway.com/strike-action/monday-9-january/

And though it has, indeed, run every 15 minutes since the branch was closed in December.... as of today, the bus service frequency has been reduced to every 30 minutes. There was absolutely no notice of this change, locally, and Journey Planner was only updated with the new arrangements during the course of the day.

They sent a mini-coach for the 07.00 Seaford-Lewes, which had to turn away passengers at Newhaven Town. This bus connects with the 07.40 to London Bridge at Lewes, but people joining at Seaford tell me they had to beg the bus driver to leave, as he had instructions not to go until 07.15, which would have scuppered the Lewes connection. Apparently there isn't supposed to be a 07.00 bus, any more!

Neither is there a 18.00 bus from Lewes to Seaford, any longer. Arrivals from the 16.47 ex-Victoria and two ex-Brighton trains had to wait in the pouring rain outside Lewes station so as not to lose their places in the queue for the 18.08 coach, which thankfully was a long triple-axle jobbie which (just about) accommodated everyone.

 

[Class455]

Meanwhile, the now-resident 455 in the ex-GPO bay continues to sit there for days on end with its lights on permanently. How green!
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Which unit is this out of interest?
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I see there are some peak trains planned for the ASLEF strike days, between Caterham and Victoria calling Caterham-Purley inclusive, only.

I was surprised to see this too. I'm wondering why out of all lines, the Caterham line was chosen.I have also looked at the unit diagrams and the unit working this is scheduled to run Caterham to London Victoria and then return to Caterham empty stock. When the evening rush hour starts, the train will run empty from Caterham to London Victoria before returning in service. The unit will also stable at Caterham overnight. I would think a 10 car 377/6 would work the train (even though the platforms at Whyteleafe South, Whyteleafe and Kenley can only take 5 cars, people can walk through the train to access the rear 5 coaches of the train). Interesting stuff here, I may go down to Kenley to have a look tomorrow.

 

[tsr]

I am on a train to Horsham that stopped at Mitcham Eastfields but skipped Mitcham Junction. Why? Mitcham Junction has a connecting tram, Mitcham Eastfields doesn't. It's not as if the guards or OBS staff are on strike and the train is running to Horsham so there isn't a lack of a driver to run it. It also skipped Carshalton so maybe it isn't not ment to stop that either of those stations.

Does seem odd though. I'd have expected Mitcham Junction to be a stop instead of Mitcham Eastfields.

It seems Mitcham Eastfields and Balham were additional stops just for today. Not sure why and only why them and not the other two. Now stuck outside Sutton with no announcement. Hopefully one soon but this train is probably running DOO for all I know.

Just had an announcement so there is someone other than the driver on board as the driver didn't make the announcement. Now on the move again. Usually get moving shortly after announcements.

The theory is to introduce a direct service from London Victoria, Clapham Junction and Balham to Mitcham Eastfields, where there is a same-platform interchange with all-stations Thameslink services. Then the train will continue non-stop to Sutton as normal.

Calling at all stops from Balham to Sutton via Mitcham Junction does get done, but it eats into the timings, and in any case, Mitcham Junction in particular can be reached by trams from East Croydon (yes, I know it takes a little while, but whilst inconvenient, it's not an especially hard journey from Victoria or Clapham Jn). I have even seen alternative special stop orders just for Hackbridge and Carshalton, because unlike Mitcham Junction, they do not have alternative connecting services, but that's rather rarer.

As for announcements, some of those trains have OBSs (and some of the retained Southern conductors can stand in for OBSs, too).

Perhaps Balham was added because of the Tube strike today meaning no Northern service would be running from there

I pretty sure that wasn't the reason, though it may have helped move displaced passengers anyway!

Though the PDF on this page of the Southern website says the Lewes-Seaford replacement bus will run every 15 minutes:

http://www.southernrailway.com/strike-action/monday-9-january/

And though it has, indeed, run every 15 minutes since the branch was closed in December.... as of today, the bus service frequency has been reduced to every 30 minutes. There was absolutely no notice of this change, locally, and Journey Planner was only updated with the new arrangements during the course of the day.

It all sounded quite confusing, but it seems the buses that were ordered were for a half-hourly "local only" service, which I think is what's planned for the upcoming strike days, versus a normal overtime-ban-only service every 15 minutes. Once clarified, information on CIS/online was updated.

]I was surprised to see this too. I'm wondering why out of all lines, the Caterham line was chosen.I have also looked at the unit diagrams and the unit working this is scheduled to run Caterham to London Victoria and then return to Caterham empty stock. When the evening rush hour starts, the train will run empty from Caterham to London Victoria before returning in service. The unit will also stable at Caterham overnight. I would think a 10 car 377/6 would work the train (even though the platforms at Whyteleafe South, Whyteleafe and Kenley can only take 5 cars, people can walk through the train to access the rear 5 coaches of the train). Interesting stuff here, I may go down to Kenley to have a look tomorrow.

I believe the Caterham line was chosen because Caterham drivers haven't been balloted for strike action, as they were usually only rostered on existing DOO(P) routes before the dispute began. Therefore there should be greater chances of Caterham Depot drivers booking on and working trains from there. There is also overnight stabling at Caterham, so in that case nobody should be needed to fetch the stock from elsewhere.

As for the formation, suggestions are that they will be formed of 8 coaches, but I can't confirm this.

Because of the potential extreme demand on those Caterham trains, which might be heavily loaded from Purley onwards, they will run non-stop from Purley to Victoria. It is important to note that the service will be limited, especially between the peaks, and that Southern passengers have already picked up on this and circulated it fairly widely on social media, so it's not as if nobody knows now!

 

[ctrh136]

The theory is to introduce a direct service from London Victoria, Clapham Junction and Balham to Mitcham Eastfields, where there is a same-platform interchange with all-stations Thameslink services. Then the train will continue non-stop to Sutton as normal.

Calling at all stops from Balham to Sutton via Mitcham Junction does get done, but it eats into the timings, and in any case, Mitcham Junction in particular can be reached by trams from East Croydon (yes, I know it takes a little while, but whilst inconvenient, it's not an especially hard journey from Victoria or Clapham Jn). I have even seen alternative special stop orders just for Hackbridge and Carshalton, because unlike Mitcham Junction, they do not have alternative connecting services, but that's rather rarer.

As for announcements, some of those trains have OBSs (and some of the retained Southern conductors can stand in for OBSs, too).



I pretty sure that wasn't the reason, though it may have helped move displaced passengers anyway!



It all sounded quite confusing, but it seems the buses that were ordered were for a half-hourly "local only" service, which I think is what's planned for the upcoming strike days, versus a normal overtime-ban-only service every 15 minutes. Once clarified, information on CIS/online was updated.



I believe the Caterham line was chosen because Caterham drivers haven't been balloted for strike action, as they were usually only rostered on existing DOO(P) routes before the dispute began. Therefore there should be greater chances of Caterham Depot drivers booking on and working trains from there. There is also overnight stabling at Caterham, so in that case nobody should be needed to fetch the stock from elsewhere.

As for the formation, suggestions are that they will be formed of 8 coaches, but I can't confirm this.

Because of the potential extreme demand on those Caterham trains, which might be heavily loaded from Purley onwards, they will run non-stop from Purley to Victoria. It is important to note that the service will be limited, especially between the peaks, and that Southern passengers have already picked up on this and circulated it fairly widely on social media, so it's not as if nobody knows now!

Can Caterham even take 10 car trains?

 

[Bishopstone]

It all sounded quite confusing, but it seems the buses that were ordered were for a half-hourly "local only" service, which I think is what's planned for the upcoming strike days, versus a normal overtime-ban-only service every 15 minutes. Once clarified, information on CIS/online was updated.

Thanks: more context there than anyone from GTR has been willing to give officially, all day.

It's true that the ASLEF strike day bus service will be half-hourly, because there are no trains for the buses to distribute onward traffic to at Lewes. But today wasn't a strike day, so either the wrong number of buses were ordered or - as I said - there is an intention to reduce the bus service to half-hourly permanently. Thursday is the next non-strike day, so we shall see what service is provided.

As of 22.30, the wrong PDF is still loaded for today's bus service. I know there is an awful lot going on and management is over-stretched, but poor communication has been a trademark of GTR from day one. I need to travel on Thursday, and it would be nice to discover the bus timetable from the warmth of my home, beforehand, rather than at a cold bus stop when the expected service doesn't turn-up.

 

[Class455]

Can Caterham even take 10 car trains?

I think it just about can, however it definitely cannot take 12 car.
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The theory is to introduce a direct service from London Victoria, Clapham Junction and Balham to Mitcham Eastfields, where there is a same-platform interchange with all-stations Thameslink services. Then the train will continue non-stop to Sutton as normal.

Calling at all stops from Balham to Sutton via Mitcham Junction does get done, but it eats into the timings, and in any case, Mitcham Junction in particular can be reached by trams from East Croydon (yes, I know it takes a little while, but whilst inconvenient, it's not an especially hard journey from Victoria or Clapham Jn). I have even seen alternative special stop orders just for Hackbridge and Carshalton, because unlike Mitcham Junction, they do not have alternative connecting services, but that's rather rarer.

As for announcements, some of those trains have OBSs (and some of the retained Southern conductors can stand in for OBSs, too).



I pretty sure that wasn't the reason, though it may have helped move displaced passengers anyway!



It all sounded quite confusing, but it seems the buses that were ordered were for a half-hourly "local only" service, which I think is what's planned for the upcoming strike days, versus a normal overtime-ban-only service every 15 minutes. Once clarified, information on CIS/online was updated.



I believe the Caterham line was chosen because Caterham drivers haven't been balloted for strike action, as they were usually only rostered on existing DOO(P) routes before the dispute began. Therefore there should be greater chances of Caterham Depot drivers booking on and working trains from there. There is also overnight stabling at Caterham, so in that case nobody should be needed to fetch the stock from elsewhere.

As for the formation, suggestions are that they will be formed of 8 coaches, but I can't confirm this.

Because of the potential extreme demand on those Caterham trains, which might be heavily loaded from Purley onwards, they will run non-stop from Purley to Victoria. It is important to note that the service will be limited, especially between the peaks, and that Southern passengers have already picked up on this and circulated it fairly widely on social media, so it's not as if nobody knows now!

Thank you for this. This is interesting because during the last strike, there were no Caterham services, but this time, it's the only line that's operating. Unfortunately, because the service will not stop at Clapham Junction, I will have to divert to Sutton instead of going from Kenley in order to get to Wimbledon to go to college on Wednesday. I could get the 507 from Victoria, but the service that is due to run at the time I leave will be extremely packed.

 

[Sunset route]

Can Caterham even take 10 car trains?

Caterham 8 car only
Tattenham has 9 car useable length.

But any train formed of two units requires the rear unit to be locked out of use.

 

[PHILIPE]

GWR Brighton services not calling Coastway stations again as is the norm now on strike days. Running fast to/from Havant
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Now some confusion. GWR Twitter is telling people will call but to set down only

 

[Deepgreen]

Caterham 8 car only
Tattenham has 9 car useable length.

But any train formed of two units requires the rear unit to be locked out of use.

At which station, and why?
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To the poster's question - my assumption is that because ME is a new station, the effort is towards building up the passenger base there by having as many trains calling as possible. No proof of this, just my assumption. I don't have the figures, but even accounting for the interchange with trams at MJ, the dense catchment area at ME may provide a greater potential passenger base.

 

[infobleep]

Perhaps Balham was added because of the Tube strike today meaning no Northern service would be running from there

Good point but not sure about Mitcham Eastfields. Surely Mitcham Junction would be better. I suspect it relates to the lack of Southern trains stopping at those stations due to a lack of drivers.
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The theory is to introduce a direct service from London Victoria, Clapham Junction and Balham to Mitcham Eastfields, where there is a same-platform interchange with all-stations Thameslink services. Then the train will continue non-stop to Sutton as normal.

Calling at all stops from Balham to Sutton via Mitcham Junction does get done, but it eats into the timings, and in any case, Mitcham Junction in particular can be reached by trams from East Croydon (yes, I know it takes a little while, but whilst inconvenient, it's not an especially hard journey from Victoria or Clapham Jn). I have even seen alternative special stop orders just for Hackbridge and Carshalton, because unlike Mitcham Junction, they do not have alternative connecting services, but that's rather rarer.

As for announcements, some of those trains have OBSs (and some of the retained Southern conductors can stand in for OBSs, too).



I pretty sure that wasn't the reason, though it may have helped move displaced passengers anyway!



It all sounded quite confusing, but it seems the buses that were ordered were for a half-hourly "local only" service, which I think is what's planned for the upcoming strike days, versus a normal overtime-ban-only service every 15 minutes. Once clarified, information on CIS/online was updated.



I believe the Caterham line was chosen because Caterham drivers haven't been balloted for strike action, as they were usually only rostered on existing DOO(P) routes before the dispute began. Therefore there should be greater chances of Caterham Depot drivers booking on and working trains from there. There is also overnight stabling at Caterham, so in that case nobody should be needed to fetch the stock from elsewhere.

As for the formation, suggestions are that they will be formed of 8 coaches, but I can't confirm this.

Because of the potential extreme demand on those Caterham trains, which might be heavily loaded from Purley onwards, they will run non-stop from Purley to Victoria. It is important to note that the service will be limited, especially between the peaks, and that Southern passengers have already picked up on this and circulated it fairly widely on social media, so it's not as if nobody knows now!

Thanks for the detailed information as ever.

So passengers coming from a tram stop other than a railway station, who wish to get to Sutton or beyond should travel to either Wimbledon or East Croydon and then catch a train to Sutton or beyond? I don't know the local transport that we'll so might be far better journeys for passengers than using the tram and train to reach places like Sutton.

How come Caterham services didn't run during the last drivers strike? Did the management not realise they could run such a service?

 

[Class455]

At which station, and why?

They are locked out because Kenley, Whyteleafe and Whyteleafe South can only take a maximum of 6 cars on the platforms. I would think though they will be extended in the near future. With the 455, the whole rear unit is locked out of use, while on the 377 (a 4 car one), people can leave the train through the second unit as SDO is in operation. As for the Tattenham Corner line, I'm not sure.
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Caterham 8 car only
Tattenham has 9 car useable length.

But any train formed of two units requires the rear unit to be locked out of use.

The Platform at Caterham, I'm pretty sure can take 10 car trains, but just about, as when I boarded an 8 car 455 there, there was still space ahead before the Platform ended.

 

[bengley]

They are locked out because Kenley, Whyteleafe and Whyteleafe South can only take a maximum of 6 cars on the platforms. I would think though they will be extended in the near future. With the 455, the whole rear unit is locked out of use, while on the 377 (a 4 car one), people can leave the train through the second unit as SDO is in operation. As for the Tattenham Corner line, I'm not sure.
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The Platform at Caterham, I'm pretty sure can take 10 car trains, but just about, as when I boarded an 8 car 455 there, there was still space ahead before the Platform ended.

Caterham can only take 8 coaches.

http://imgur.com/MBZbXaY

 

[Class455]

377 471 and 377 452 have the privilege of being the only trains which are running today on the entirety of the Southern network. They are the units working the Caterham to London Victoria trains today. Here is a picture and a video will be uploaded soon. The driver gave me a wave and made a funny face, which made me laugh (You can just about see the driver waving in the photo)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/100198363@N02/32078534912/in/datetaken-public/

 

[anme]

I work with a colleague who commutes daily from East Grinstead and on strike days, there is no other option available to him apart from getting a taxi to Gatwick (at extra cost) and attempting to board a TL service. Both he and my employer refuse to pay the taxi fare. Of course, he won't be paid if he doesn't come in to work and his absence adversely affects everyone else.

Are there any other options? Working from home is not an option, nor is living nearer to work

The only advice is to find another job. I love London but the quality of life for people living in the hinterlands is shockingly low and cost of living is shockingly expensive.

 

[jha4ceb]

The 0734 Caterham to Vic passed while I was waiting at East Croydon. It wasn't full.

Only a few people managed to board the late-running 0754 northbound Thameslink at East Croydon. It was already heaving. Luckily it was followed by a surprised GX service to Victoria, which wasn't busy. Looks like there are a few return workings from Victoria to East Croydon this evening.

The GX had stopped at Redhill, which must be a pretty rare occurrance.

 

[bengley]

377 471 and 377 452 have the privilege of being the only trains which are running today on the entirety of the Southern network. They are the units working the Caterham to London Victoria trains today. Here is a picture and a video will be uploaded soon. The driver gave me a wave and made a funny face, which made me laugh (You can just about see the driver waving in the photo)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/100198363@N02/32078534912/in/datetaken-public/

Not quite the only trains running - there are quite a few Brighton - Victoria trains running too.
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The 0734 Caterham to Vic passed while I was waiting at East Croydon. It wasn't full.

Only a few people managed to board the late-running 0754 northbound Thameslink at East Croydon. It was already heaving. Luckily it was followed by a surprised GX service to Victoria, which wasn't busy. Looks like there are a few return workings from Victoria to East Croydon this evening.

The GX had stopped at Redhill, which must be a pretty rare occurrance.

That wasn't a Gatwick Express, it was a Southern service using a Gatwick Express class 387

 

[swt class 450]

Surely during the drivers strikes it would make sense for GWR to call at all stations between Brighton and Havant (Brighton / Hove / Aldrington / Portslade / Fishersgate / Southwick / Shoreham By Sea / Lancing / East Worthing / Worthing / West Worthing / Durrington On Sea / Goring By Sea / Angmering / Ford / Barnham / Chichester / Fishbourne / Bosham / Nutbourne / Southbourne / Emsworth / Warblington / Havant) to assist more passengers? Surely they could find some additional units to make longer trains? I know they have used six coach trains to and from Brighton in the past.

Also could GWR also call additionally at Horley / Salfords / Earlswood on their trains to and from Gatwick Airport?

 

[infobleep]

The 0734 Caterham to Vic passed while I was waiting at East Croydon. It wasn't full.

Only a few people managed to board the late-running 0754 northbound Thameslink at East Croydon. It was already heaving. Luckily it was followed by a surprised GX service to Victoria, which wasn't busy. Looks like there are a few return workings from Victoria to East Croydon this evening.

The GX had stopped at Redhill, which must be a pretty rare occurrance.

I'm guess they added in the Redhill stop this morning so that people wouldn't be aware in advance. Less people aware the better to keep pass ever numbers down I imagine.
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Surely during the drivers strikes it would make sense for GWR to call at all stations between Brighton and Havant (Brighton / Hove / Aldrington / Portslade / Fishersgate / Southwick / Shoreham By Sea / Lancing / East Worthing / Worthing / West Worthing / Durrington On Sea / Goring By Sea / Angmering / Ford / Barnham / Chichester / Fishbourne / Bosham / Nutbourne / Southbourne / Emsworth / Warblington / Havant) to assist more passengers? Surely they could find some additional units to make longer trains? I know they have used six coach trains to and from Brighton in the past.

Also could GWR also call additionally at Horley / Salfords / Earlswood on their trains to and from Gatwick Airport?

I imagine timings wouldn't make it possible but then GTR did run Thameslink's via Redhill and that caused them to be late!
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Why are the Brighton trains skipping Clapham Junction? Not enough space.

 

[387star]

Surely during the drivers strikes it would make sense for GWR to call at all stations between Brighton and Havant (Brighton / Hove / Aldrington / Portslade / Fishersgate / Southwick / Shoreham By Sea / Lancing / East Worthing / Worthing / West Worthing / Durrington On Sea / Goring By Sea / Angmering / Ford / Barnham / Chichester / Fishbourne / Bosham / Nutbourne / Southbourne / Emsworth / Warblington / Havant) to assist more passengers? Surely they could find some additional units to make longer trains? I know they have used six coach trains to and from Brighton in the past.

Also could GWR also call additionally at Horley / Salfords / Earlswood on their trains to and from Gatwick Airport?

That would be a very slow journey and given those trains run all the way to Great Malvern/Bristol sounds a great idea

GWR need all the stock they can get their hands on for the Bristol peak hour services which are often heavily overcrowded especially between Bristol-Bath/Newport South Wales

Brighton is a secondary extension to the Portsmouth-Cardiff line hence a 150/9 or even a single 150/2 is more likely to be seconded on to the Brightons if there is a shortage of 158s

Also since SWT have boosted their west of england services GWR has fewer trains to play with

 

[infobleep]

Only two trains from Brighton this morning but did back this evening.

When did they last have double the frequency heading south from Victoria compared to those going north to Victoria?

Customers at Redhill get a pleasant surprise of four evening peak trains to Brighton via Southern in addition to the Thameslink ones. Admittedly one leaves Victoira at 19.05, so where evening and we restrictions to exist, I imagine it might be considered off peak.

 

[Deepgreen]

Only two trains from Brighton this morning but did back this evening.

When did they last have double the frequency heading south from Victoria compared to those going north to Victoria?

Customers at Redhill get a pleasant surprise of four evening peak trains to Brighton via Southern in addition to the Thameslink ones. Admittedly one leaves Victoira at 19.05, so where evening and we restrictions to exist, I imagine it might be considered off peak.

The first three timed to miss the North Downs line trains by one minute!

 

[jha4ceb]

That wasn't a Gatwick Express, it was a Southern service using a Gatwick Express class 387

RTT showed it as Gatwick Express - dunno if that can be relied upon
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/X40960/2017/01/10/advanced

 

[bengley]

RTT showed it as Gatwick Express - dunno if that can be relied upon
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/X40960/2017/01/10/advanced

That is unusual but I am certain it was Southern - CCLDB (internal NR staff departures website) shows it as SN, as did the departure boards at Brighton.

 

[infobleep]

The first three timed to miss the North Downs line trains by one minute!

Well perhaps that helps discourage passengers. After all GTR probably don't want passengers to travel today, given the service levels they are running.

 

[Deepgreen]

Well perhaps that helps discourage passengers. After all GTR probably don't want passengers to travel today, given the service levels they are running.

Ah, but we're made of sterner stuff!

 

[infobleep]

Ah, but we're made of sterner stuff!

Perhaps they only want those made of sterner stuff.

 

[yorkie]

Video: 'My three-and-a-half hour commute''

Commuter Alison Braganza's journey from Three Bridges to central London normally takes 45 minutes. Today's Southern Rail strike made it a lot, lot longer.

It's unclear what her journey was; the text says Three Bridges but the video starts with what appears to be footage of the departure board at Horsham at 0619.

It's unclear what time she got to Gatwick Airport, but it appears the coach departed shortly after 0700, and got to Victoria at about 1015. It's unclear where her workplace is but she arrived there at 1045.

Were the trains from Gatwick to London impossible to board? GTR operated trains to VIC at 0650, 0705, 0719, 0745, 0749, 0820, 0849, 0920 which would have all got to Victoria long before the coach, and the 0700, 0738, 0801, 0823, 0839, 0853, 0910, would have all got to Blackfriars in plenty of time to get to Victoria quicker than the coach.

Is this due to poor information being given out regarding which of the company's trains are running, or is it due to people being unable to board trains at Gatwick?

 

[GodAtum]

Some video of the queue at East Croydon on this site

I was very smug this morning as there was no queue to go southbound

 

[Starmill]

Video: 'My three-and-a-half hour commute''
It's unclear what her journey was; the text says Three Bridges but the video starts with what appears to be footage of the departure board at Horsham at 0619.

It's unclear what time she got to Gatwick Airport, but it appears the coach departed shortly after 0700, and got to Victoria at about 1015. It's unclear where her workplace is but she arrived there at 1045.

The shot at Horsham appears to be with a different camera. She says she was dropped off at Gatwick Airport.

Were the trains from Gatwick to London impossible to board? GTR operated trains to VIC at 0650, 0705, 0719, 0745, 0749, 0820, 0849, 0920 which would have all got to Victoria long before the coach, and the 0700, 0738, 0801, 0823, 0839, 0853, 0910, would have all got to Blackfriars in plenty of time to get to Victoria quicker than the coach.

Is this due to poor information being given out regarding which of the company's trains are running, or is it due to people being unable to board trains at Gatwick?

Probably not, as there were a lot of people reportedly boarding those trains at Redhill and East Croydon. She probably was aware that there were trains from Three Bridges that day but was simply averse to using the train at all on the basis that a) she probably had a lot of previous terrible journeys and b) the company were clear in saying people shouldn't travel by train.