Information for GTR Southern passengers during strike (no DOO discussion)

[Deepgreen]

ABC (Association of British Commuters) is full of political arguments.

The RRDRUA (Reigate, Redhill and District Rail Users' Association) is a much more practical organisation which does a great deal of useful information dissemination, advice and feedback. They did indeed organise extra Thameslink stops to plug the gap Deepgreen identified.
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Effectively there are paths for the Thameslinks because there are missing Southern services.

Good for them, but why does it take a Rail Users group to prompt what the TOCs/TOC (GTR) should have done in any case to provide a fairer/better service? It's called planning with passenger service in mind.

 

[OFFDN]

The BBC is reporting that many bus/coach companies across the country are ready to offer vehicles to help out during Southern strikes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38500118

There will be around 200 buses running services to/from 9 key stations on strike days.

 

[Barn]

Good for them, but why does it take a Rail Users group to prompt what the TOCs/TOC (GTR) should have done in any case to provide a fairer/better service? It's called planning with passenger service in mind.

Entirely agree, but the fact GTR didn't do so of its own volition shows the value of good rail user groups.

 

[infobleep]

ABC (Association of British Commuters) is full of political arguments.

The RRDRUA (Reigate, Redhill and District Rail Users' Association) is a much more practical organisation which does a great deal of useful information dissemination, advice and feedback. They did indeed organise extra Thameslink stops to plug the gap Deepgreen identified.
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Effectively there are paths for the Thameslinks because there are missing Southern services.

There may be paths but the trains would then run late. If they didn't run late they wouldn't say the trains were delayed due to making extra stops due to trains being cancelled.

I once wanted to catch a train from Gatwick towards Reading. It was started short at Redhill. They didn't hold the train for 3-4 minutes at Redhill so that I could come off the the next train and board it.

I'm sure the reason it wasn't held was so that it wouldn't further delay other passengers down the line or cause delays to other trains that pass through Guildford.

I've certainly been given those reasons more generally when talking about connecting trains not being held.
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Entirely agree, but the fact GTR didn't do so of its own volition shows the value of good rail user groups.

And how poor GTR are but those that matter in such circumstances don't seem to care how poor they are.

 

[Alex C.]

I'm due to travel from Gatwick on the 21st. Getting there from Portsmouth and need to be there in time for a 9am flight. Would people suggest getting the coach instead (not great times, especially coming back where there would be a 2 hour wait) and will cost double the train fare, hold off till closer to the time or is there a third option I might have missed?

 

[Kite159]

I'm due to travel from Gatwick on the 21st. Getting there from Portsmouth and need to be there in time for a 9am flight. Would people suggest getting the coach instead (not great times, especially coming back where there would be a 2 hour wait) and will cost double the train fare, hold off till closer to the time or is there a third option I might have missed?

3rd option - SWT to Guildford, GWR to Gatwick. Although I guess it will probably cost more than the "Via Barnham" fare

 

[36270k]

I'm due to travel from Gatwick on the 21st. Getting there from Portsmouth and need to be there in time for a 9am flight. Would people suggest getting the coach instead (not great times, especially coming back where there would be a 2 hour wait) and will cost double the train fare, hold off till closer to the time or is there a third option I might have missed?

Check out 0430 SWT Portsmouth - Guildford then FGW Guildford - Gatwick via Redhill

 

[infobleep]

3rd option - SWT to Guildford, GWR to Gatwick. Although I guess it will probably cost more than the "Via Barnham" fare

Is their ticket acceptance between them or not so?
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I see the Bedford trains tomorrow morning are not showing as going via Redhill, expect those usually timetabled to do so. Does this mean they won't go that way or will they change it at the last minute?

Also is the disruption due to training on DOO by drivers taken into account in tomorrow's timetable or will they just let the disruption occur as and when?
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http://www.southernrailway.com/your-journey/strike/aslef-strike/

Only the following services will run across the Southern network

Thameslink, Southeastern, South West Trains, London Midland, London Overground servies
Will operate to a normal timetable.
Gatwick Express
A service will operate between London Victoria and Gatwick Airport every 30 minutes between approximately 05.00 and 22.00
Southern
No train services will operate on any route. Buses wil operate as follows:
Hastings - Ashford (calling at all stations)
Lewes - Eastbourne (calling at all stations)
For essential travel, a limited bus service will operate to provide a connection to London from/to the following stations:
Eastbourne: to and from Hastings (for Southeastern connections to and from London)
Bexhill: to and from Hastings (for Southeastern connections to and from London)
Uckfield and Crowborough: to and from Tunbridge Wells (for Southeastern connections to and from London)
Oxted: to and from Sevenoaks (for Southeastern connections to and from London)
East Grinstead: to and from Gatwick Airport (for Gatwick Express/Thameslink connections to and from London)
Horsham: to and from Dorking (for South West Trains connections to and from London)
Tattenham Corner: to and from Epsom (for South West Trains connections to and from London)
Chichester: to and from Havant (for South West Trains connections to and from London)
Journey times will be much longer and capacity will be limited which means that queuing systems may in place. Timetable PDFs will be available shortly.

Further down it goes on to say:

Will you pay for taxis or provide replacement buses if there are no trains?
We will not be able to provide alternative travel on the dates of the drivers’ strikes.

So they won't provide replacement buses or any alternative travel. If that is the case, what are the above buses?

I'm not perfect and make mistakes. However if I was updating information on a public facing Web Site, I would have someone else glance over it too.
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Bedford trains now going via Redhill. Must have made the change this morning. Maybe this is forever going to be a challenge getting that I'd updated each morning, rather than the day before. Good to keep passengers on their toes.
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Just got to Horley had someone asked us to move down as they needed to board and this was the first train for an hour. Clearly they don't have such a good rail users group to lobby GTR.

Coukd Great Western Railway stop additionally at Horley? It might delay their services but less so than the Thameslink ones which are stopping at more than one additional station and being diverted via a slower Redhill route.

 

[Bishopstone]

First Class is now declassified on all Southern, GatEx and Thameslink services (south of London) on 'overtime ban' days: not just on the Brighton Mainline.

 

[Deepgreen]

First Class is now declassified on all Southern, GatEx and Thameslink services (south of London) on 'overtime ban' days: not just on the Brighton Mainline.

Thanks - where has this been publicised?
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The last few times I have caught it, the 0831 Redhill to Victoria (ex-Horsham at 0752) has been formed of two class 377/6s (ten coaches). Does anyone know if this is now the permanent rostered formation for this train, or just a temporary one during industrial action (including overtime ban days)?

 

[tsr]

Thanks - where has this been publicised?

Bishopstone is now correct. I suspect, but can't confirm, that the previous "solution" of BML declassification only, on days when there was "only" an ASLEF overtime ban, was seen as too confusing.

You can find the details near the bottom of this page:

http://www.southernrailway.com/your...dvice-for-ASLEF-industrial-action-on-weekdays

 

[infobleep]

First Class is now declassified on all Southern, GatEx and Thameslink services (south of London) on 'overtime ban' days: not just on the Brighton Mainline.

Bishopstone is now correct. I suspect, but can't confirm, that the previous "solution" of BML declassification only, on days when there was "only" an ASLEF overtime ban, was seen as too confusing.

You can find the details near the bottom of this page:

http://www.southernrailway.com/your...dvice-for-ASLEF-industrial-action-on-weekdays

The advice is however under the heading:
Alternatives if trains aren’t running or are limited on my route

What if trains are running and also how do you define at what point trains on a route are limited? Also some routes converge. So what happens then?

Also at certain times of the day services might be more limited than others. As quite a few services are cancelled before loading the timetables, it's hard to know what is cancelled without referring to real time trains site as National Rail Enquiries doesn't list them.

I could be reading things to literally.

 

[Deepgreen]

The advice is however under the heading:
Alternatives if trains aren’t running or are limited on my route

What if trains are running and also how do you define at what point trains on a route are limited? Also some routes converge. So what happens then?

Also at certain times of the day services might be more limited than others. As quite a few services are cancelled before loading the timetables, it's hard to know what is cancelled without referring to real time trains site as National Rail Enquiries doesn't list them.

I could be reading things to literally.

The advice I saw on the Southern web site today was that first class is declassified on Thameslink between London and Brighton only, not a blanket south-of-the-river coverage.

 

[Bishopstone]

The advice I saw on the Southern web site today was that first class is declassified on Thameslink between London and Brighton only, not a blanket south-of-the-river coverage.

Yes, you're right, though most of the other Thameslink services south of London are Standard only, anyway, eg Wimbledon loop.

 

[infobleep]

The advice I saw on the Southern web site today was that first class is declassified on Thameslink between London and Brighton only, not a blanket south-of-the-river coverage.

Which part of the site said that? Or are they conflicting parts of Southern's site saying different things.

What do Thameslink say? After all that is the brand that runs the service and has a separate Web site.

 

[Deepgreen]

Which part of the site said that? Or are they conflicting parts of Southern's site saying different things.

What do Thameslink say? After all that is the brand that runs the service and has a separate Web site.

This is from the detailed pages lying underneath Southern's information on travelling during non-strike industrial action. It takes dedication to continue as far as the relevant part!

"Will first class accommodation be available to Standard Class ticket holders?
First Class accommodation will be declassified on Southern services. First Class is also declassified on Gatwick Express trains between London and Gatwick Airport together with Thameslink trains between London and Brighton."
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Track circuit failure south of Redhill - possible fun again this evening!

 

[radamfi]

Just got to Horley had someone asked us to move down as they needed to board and this was the first train for an hour. Clearly they don't have such a good rail users group to lobby GTR.

Coukd Great Western Railway stop additionally at Horley? It might delay their services but less so than the Thameslink ones which are stopping at more than one additional station and being diverted via a slower Redhill route.

Horley is probably considered to be reasonably covered by Metrobus acceptance. There are 8 buses per hour for the short distance between Horley and Gatwick where Gatwick Express, Thameslink and GWR can be found.

 

[Deepgreen]

Track circuit failure south of Redhill - possible fun again this evening!

 

[Bishopstone]

I see there are some peak trains planned for the ASLEF strike days, between Caterham and Victoria calling Caterham-Purley inclusive, only.

 

[infobleep]

This is from the detailed pages lying underneath Southern's information on travelling during non-strike industrial action. It takes dedication to continue as far as the relevant part!

"Will first class accommodation be available to Standard Class ticket holders?
First Class accommodation will be declassified on Southern services. First Class is also declassified on Gatwick Express trains between London and Gatwick Airport together with Thameslink trains between London and Brighton."
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Track circuit failure south of Redhill - possible fun again this evening!

But that is under the heading:

Alternatives if trains aren’t running or are limited on my route

They don't explain what they mean by limited. How few trains need to run for the service to be limited? Just 1? This may seem pedantic but then GTR went to court over restricting the freedom of movement of EU citizens to airports such as Gatwick Airport. That could seem pedantic. They lost of course.

 

[Bishopstone]

But that is under the heading:
They don't explain what they mean by limited. How few trains need to run for the service to be limited? Just 1? This may seem pedantic but then GTR went to court over restricting the freedom of movement of EU citizens to airports such as Gatwick Airport. That could seem pedantic. They lost of course.

The social media team are also advising passengers of the blanket declassification. It is real, so I would cease to worry about a woolly sub-heading on the website.

 

[infobleep]

The social media team are also advising passengers of the blanket declassification. It is real, so I would cease to worry about a woolly sub-heading on the website.

That's a good silverlining. I shall enjoy declassified first class whenever I am on Southern, Thameslink or Gatwick Express. There won't always be any spare mind you. Especially if trains are cancelled due to: overtime ban; train fault; lack of staff or any other reason.

 

[Deepgreen]

That's a good silverlining. I shall enjoy declassified first class whenever I am on Southern, Thameslink or Gatwick Express. There won't always be any spare mind you. Especially if trains are cancelled due to: overtime ban; train fault; lack of staff or any other reason.

This week I have enjoyed most of first to myself, as my previously-five car train is now ten, on top of which most people are unaware of the declassification. This is the reverse of pre-Christmas activity where most people seemed to be ignoring any class separation (in railway terms!).
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Redhill was a disaster yet again last evening, as another GWR 166 failed there while reversing. Platform 1 already contained an extremely late Tonbridge train (no crew) towards the London end, then the 1743 to Reading arrived and we boarded. All seemed well until about 1750 when the GWR guard walked through and told us that an engine problem meant it was cancelled. The 1741 GWR to Gatwick crept in on top of the cancelled unit, which, despite its engine issues was able to be shunted north to virtually buffer up to the Southern 377! The second 166 then coupled to the failed unit and sat there (inches inside the down starter) with GWR train crews muttering among themselves. It was painfully obvious to me and many other people that the combined formation would form the 1813 to Reading, but not a single word was announced to this effect (despite a recorded announcement that the 1741 to Gatwick was also now cancelled) and the screen continued to show very old, wrong information!

I gave up after a while and went to get a lift home from Redhill (painful, given the interminable road works there). The combined 6 car 1813 eventually left at 1820.

Absolutely gormless staff at Redhill - if they had announced what was so obviously going to happen they would have headed off much of the huge and angry crowd that was queueing at the 'information' desk!! It beggars belief how useless the staff are at Redhill, and nothing ever improves there. Staggering.

Meanwhile, the now-resident 455 in the ex-GPO bay continues to sit there for days on end with its lights on permanently. How green!
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[infobleep]

If I put East Croydon to Haywards Heath for next Monday, nothing comes up but if I do East Croydon to London I get opportunities to Victoira or London Bridge.

Any one know what the issue might be. It's not as if Thameslink are on strike. Same occurs on other days, including Thursday.

 

[Deepgreen]

If I put East Croydon to Haywards Heath for next Monday, nothing comes up but if I do East Croydon to London I get opportunities to Victoira or London Bridge.

Any one know what the issue might be. It's not as if Thameslink are on strike. Same occurs on other days, including Thursday.

I imagine your forum moniker covers it! No coordination within GTR, or with other bodies. Information is just another thing that GTR does so appallingly.

Edit - National Rail has multiple journeys EC to HH around 0900 Monday 9 January. Where were you trying?

 

[infobleep]

I imagine your forum moniker covers it! No coordination within GTR, or with other bodies. Information is just another thing that GTR does so appallingly.

Edit - National Rail has multiple journeys EC to HH around 0900 Monday 9 January. Where were you trying?

It's OK. You can travel north from Redhill or Haywards Heath between 9-10am but not after it seems. South however nothing.

 

[Deepgreen]

It's OK. You can travel north from Redhill or Haywards Heath between 9-10am UT not after it seems. South however nothing.

My quick test on NR showed trains southbound EC to HH from 0900 through to at least 1300.

 

[infobleep]

My quick test on NR showed trains southbound EC to HH from 0900 through to at least 1300.

May be a problem with National Rail Enquiries App or my install of it or session. Not sure. Following week is fine though so odd.

 

[GodAtum]

This week I have enjoyed most of first to myself, as my previously-five car train is now ten, on top of which most people are unaware of the declassification. This is the reverse of pre-Christmas activity where most people seemed to be ignoring any class separation (in railway terms!).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Redhill was a disaster yet again last evening, as another GWR 166 failed there while reversing. Platform 1 already contained an extremely late Tonbridge train (no crew) towards the London end, then the 1743 to Reading arrived and we boarded. All seemed well until about 1750 when the GWR guard walked through and told us that an engine problem meant it was cancelled. The 1741 GWR to Gatwick crept in on top of the cancelled unit, which, despite its engine issues was able to be shunted north to virtually buffer up to the Southern 377! The second 166 then coupled to the failed unit and sat there (inches inside the down starter) with GWR train crews muttering among themselves. It was painfully obvious to me and many other people that the combined formation would form the 1813 to Reading, but not a single word was announced to this effect (despite a recorded announcement that the 1741 to Gatwick was also now cancelled) and the screen continued to show very old, wrong information!

I gave up after a while and went to get a lift home from Redhill (painful, given the interminable road works there). The combined 6 car 1813 eventually left at 1820.

Absolutely gormless staff at Redhill - if they had announced what was so obviously going to happen they would have headed off much of the huge and angry crowd that was queueing at the 'information' desk!! It beggars belief how useless the staff are at Redhill, and nothing ever improves there. Staggering.

Meanwhile, the now-resident 455 in the ex-GPO bay continues to sit there for days on end with its lights on permanently. How green!
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Last strike I took Thameslink from ECR to Gatwick, then GWR to Guildford. Luckily it was all on time. Are GWR usually very bad?

 

[infobleep]

I am on a train to Horsham that stopped at Mitcham Eastfields but skipped Mitcham Junction. Why? Mitcham Junction has a connecting tram, Mitcham Eastfields doesn't. It's not as if the guards or OBS staff are on strike and the train is running to Horsham so there isn't a lack of a driver to run it. It also skipped Carshalton so maybe it isn't not ment to stop that either of those stations.

Does seem odd though. I'd have expected Mitcham Junction to be a stop instead of Mitcham Eastfields.

It seems Mitcham Eastfields and Balham were additional stops just for today. Not sure why and only why them and not the other two. Now stuck outside Sutton with no announcement. Hopefully one soon but this train is probably running DOO for all I know.

Just had an announcement so there is someone other than the driver on board as the driver didn't make the announcement. Now on the move again. Usually get moving shortly after announcements.