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Compatibility of Turbos and class 15x units?

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Great_Western

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Is it possible that when the turbos arrived they could be altered to work with 15x units? Having them in a common pool with sprinters would surely create more opportunity to have extra capacity where it is needed
 
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spark001uk

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Is it possible that when the turbos arrived they could be altered to work with 15x units? Having them in a common pool with sprinters would surely create more opportunity to have extra capacity where it is needed

From Wikipedia class 150 article:

Wikipedia said:
However, they cannot work in multiple with Class 165 or Class 166 units due to incompatible wiring arrangements.
 

1179_Clee2

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Is it possible that when the turbos arrived they could be altered to work with 15x units? Having them in a common pool with sprinters would surely create more opportunity to have extra capacity where it is needed

A article in RAIL magazine several years ago stated that it is not the unit that is wired differently, but only the the coupler. It also said it would take half a day changing couplers with a fork lift and units would work together.
The reason for the difference was Network South East did not want Regional Railways using any of their turbo DMU's so made them different so they could not.
They will run together now but only one way, I think it is turbo leading sprinter but will not work the other way round, its due to the control of the hydraulic transmission.
 

superalbs

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Class 165s and Class 168s can work in multiple, Class 168s are effectively Class 170s, which can and do couple to Class 15x in service, so I don't see why they can't work with any other units.
 

1179_Clee2

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Class 165s and Class 168s can work in multiple, Class 168s are effectively Class 170s, which can and do couple to Class 15x in service, so I don't see why they can't work with any other units.

Sprinters and turbos have the same BSI coupler but it is wired differently through the coupler to control the hydraulic transmission, Reggie Rail had a 3 wire control (sprinter) Network South East opted for a 4 wire control (turbo) they will run together but can only run in one direction if running in the other direction the rear unit will stay in the low hydraulic drive when the lead unit goes into high hydraulic drive as it wont change up. Class 168 and 170's must be able to detect which system is in use.
The original RAIL 4 page article several years ago came from Chiltern Railways with quotes from various employees.
 
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JN114

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168s and 170s can not work in multiple, the 168s had their couplers modified to work with Turbos, similarly Chiltern's 172s and the ex-Transpennie 170s. There's no fancy detection of what they're coupled to.

Sprinters and turbos have the same BSI coupler but it is wired differently through the coupler to control the hydraulic transmission, Reggie Rail had a 3 wire control (sprinter) Network South East opted for a 4 wire control (turbo) they will run together but can only run in one direction if running in the other direction the rear unit will stay in the low hydraulic drive when the lead unit goes into high hydraulic drive as it wont change up. Class 168 and 170's must be able to detect which system is in use.
The original RAIL 4 page article several years ago came from Chiltern Railways with quotes from various employees.

It also causes the buzzer to sound continuously on the sprinter of they are electrically coupled, and the Turbo won't receive buzzes from the Sprinter.

***

215 has gone West for staff training for now, but several changes need to be made to the Turbos before they can work more universally in the West. The list the changes is substantial, but includes changes to ride height, fitting of saloon door controls, coupler modifications to enable electrical coupling to sprinters, modifications to electrical system to allow certain system to be powered from a remote vehicle in the event of engine failure, and several more I can't recall off the top of my head. That work is due to start in the early part of the year, although a decision is yet to be taken whether to modify the entire 165/166 fleet, or just units intended to go west. The latter will cause compatibility issues as they will no longer be compatible with their original-condition classmates.
 

spark001uk

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Do they even need to work with 15x? I thought they were intended to be replacements in the West rather than bolsters?
 

JN114

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Do they even need to work with 15x? I thought they were intended to be replacements in the West rather than bolsters?

I don't think there are any aspirations to do it on booked services, but at the moment you can't even rescue a failed Turbo with a 15x, except by mechanical coupling only which is 10mph max. Plus in the interim it may prove prudent to use them as strengthening existing diagrams while only a few are about.
 
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