Information for GTR Southern passengers during strike (no DOO discussion)

[Deepgreen]

He was fine in the end - ended up as a severe case of food poisoning.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=110984

I am glad to have been wrong there, then!

 

[Barn]

I have a Dorking to London terminals annual season, via Epsom or Redhill, and put over £100 in DR vouchers towards my new season! I claim for either route's delays if that is the one I used that day.

Thanks to you and others who have helped. I'm not sure if 'reassuring' is the right word in the circumstances, but that's great to know.

One final question (and sorry to get into the nitpicking detail) but you say that you claim based on the route you "used that day".

What if you wanted to use one route and were forced to use the other (longer) route instead?

E.g. if I'm based at Reigate and will always travel via Redhill if it is working properly, could I put a claim in if GTR problems meant that I had to travel in fact via Dorking and Epsom?

In that circumstance, the trains I actually took might have been fine, but the reason I was taking them at all was that my preferred option had collapsed.

 

[Deepgreen]

Thanks to you and others who have helped. I'm not sure if 'reassuring' is the right word in the circumstances, but that's great to know.

One final question (and sorry to get into the nitpicking detail) but you say that you claim based on the route you "used that day".

What if you wanted to use one route and were forced to use the other (longer) route instead?

E.g. if I'm based at Reigate and will always travel via Redhill if it is working properly, could I put a claim in if GTR problems meant that I had to travel in fact via Dorking and Epsom?

In that circumstance, the trains I actually took might have been fine, but the reason I was taking them at all was that my preferred option had collapsed.

In that circumstance I would claim using the intended departure time of the train from Reigate (assuming it had been cancelled or delayed badly) and its supposed arrival time at, say, Victoria. Your claim would have to reflect the delay you experienced by taking the other route (if more than 15 minutes, of course).

 

[Deepgreen]

Southern's web site now talks of "impacts to services..." (my bold type) - it really must take some effort to mangle the language as frequently as they do!

 

[LBSCR Times]

Southern's web site now talks of "impacts to services..." (my bold type) - it really must take some effort to mangle the language as frequently as they do!

Gone are the days when the railway insisted that any form of clerical grade required at least an O Level in English Language!
And the TSSA complained about certain grades of staff circumventing the system.....

 

[HowardGWR]

Gone are the days when the railway insisted that any form of clerical grade required at least an O Level in English Language!
And the TSSA complained about certain grades of staff circumventing the system.....

You can apparently become a newspaper reporter now without English as a qualification.

 

[Stew998]

You can apparently become a newspaper reporter now without English as a qualification.

And yet there are suggestions that a degree be mandatory for PCs and nurses! :roll:

 

[infobleep]

There was an incident not long ago when a TL driver was taken ill (at Elephant and Castle I think) and had to be removed from the train there. I hope I'm wrong, but I think he had a heart attack and subsequently died.

The question is, did they list the reason for any cancellation or delay due to staff sickness?

Glad to hear he was OK.

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[Bishopstone]

I was expecting a scrum today, but I had two seats to myself on the 07.40 Lewes-Haywards Heath, and then changed onto an 8-car Thameslink train up to Gatwick, on which I also got a seat despite the GatEx Brighton extensions being removed from the timetable.

Coming back home tonight, my peak Victoria-East Coastway train was only 30% loaded at Haywards Heath.

Okay, I suppose a few lucky folk have extended their festive breaks by a day or two, but if the unions lose this dispute the most significant contributory factor, in my view, will be 'Working From Home'.

When this ends, I expect the numbers who traipse in to a zone 1 office, every day of the week, to have reduced permanently and substantially. This will be a good thing for all concerned.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I work with a colleague who commutes daily from East Grinstead and on strike days, there is no other option available to him apart from getting a taxi to Gatwick (at extra cost) and attempting to board a TL service. Both he and my employer refuse to pay the taxi fare. Of course, he won't be paid if he doesn't come in to work and his absence adversely affects everyone else.

Are there any other options? Working from home is not an option, nor is living nearer to work

 

[HowardGWR]

I work with a colleague who commutes daily from East Grinstead and on strike days, there is no other option available to him apart from getting a taxi to Gatwick (at extra cost) and attempting to board a TL service. Both he and my employer refuse to pay the taxi fare. Of course, he won't be paid if he doesn't come in to work and his absence adversely affects everyone else.

Are there any other options? Working from home is not an option, nor is living nearer to work

Are there no roads from East Grinstead to a place where he could get a train into London?

 

[Chrisgr31]

I work with a colleague who commutes daily from East Grinstead and on strike days, there is no other option available to him apart from getting a taxi to Gatwick (at extra cost) and attempting to board a TL service. Both he and my employer refuse to pay the taxi fare. Of course, he won't be paid if he doesn't come in to work and his absence adversely affects everyone else.

Are there any other options? Working from home is not an option, nor is living nearer to work

Metrobus run a bus from Tunbridge Wells to Crawley via East Grinstead, so that has to be a chepaer, albeit slower option.

 

[Hophead]

Metrobus run a bus from Tunbridge Wells to Crawley via East Grinstead, so that has to be a chepaer, albeit slower option.

East Grinstead to Crawley, via Three Bridges, no less, 3 times an hour (although not checked the peak timetables). And no extra charge on strike days either, since Southern have managed to secure free passage on most Metrobus routes (but not so much on non GoAhead services).

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Thanks guys, I will suggest the bus option to Three Bridges - not sure why he hasn't thought about this before...

 

[Thebaz]

Great start to new year. 0821 at PUO was short-formed and I couldn't get on it. There's an early application for Delay Repay 15 on the way! At least I was able to walk up to SNR and get the 0840 now they've decided to run the VIC trains instead of the LBG ones. I wonder why they've decided to switch them? It had better not keep up for too long as my office is moving to St Mary Axe in March!

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[infobleep]

I see today that the Brighton to Bedford services are being delayed due to making extra stops due to trains being cancelled. However I cannot see any Thameslink trains showing up as cancelled on National Rail Enquiries App departure boards. I think they are all going via Redhill. Perhaps it was planned cancellations.

Also I see a train from Littlehampton to London, the 7am, was delayed 5 minutes by a train fault. It's currently 3 minutes late at Clapham Junction.

Howvwer there are trains far more delayed than that, for which no delay reason has been given. Talk about inconsistent. For example the 7.36 left Victoria 3 minutes late and was 13 minutes late into Brighton. 6.47 Victoria to Ore left 2 minutes late and is currently 13 minutes late at Cooden Beach.

The 7.53 London Bridge to Brighton was 4 minutes late leaving and is currently 7 minutes late at Haywards Heath. At least that one says there is a problem currently under investigation. I wonder if they will update the reason once they have finished their investigations. I don't how out much hope.

The 8.46 Brighton to Victoria has not left Brighton yet for no given reason. However they did explain why the 8.07 Victoria to Brighton was 13 minutes late leaving and is currently 20 minutes late. It's due to train crew being late.

So like I say, inconsistent. What causes staff to decide to put delay reasons against some trains but not others?

 

[gavin]

Breaking: Six-day strike by drivers on Southern Railway from Monday cut to three days

 

[Deepgreen]

London Bridge yesterday afternoon:

1612 to Brighton (TL) was a 700/1 and the platform and concourse indicators showed that the doors in the rear coach would not open at Gatwick Airport. Surely there's not still a train length issue at little wayside Gatwick with the 700s now in service?!

1629 to Horsham was described as "formed of 8 coaches formed of 4 coaches". Was actually 4 and ridiculously full. Used the new fly-under at Bermondsey but then crawled into NXG.

Redhill this morning - the 0831 to Victoria was 10 coaches vice 5, not that anyone was told before it arrived, including the platform staff apparently, who seem constantly to be surprised when a train arrives and they have to see it away! Left late after waiting for the staff to amble up to the front of the train.

 

[redstar]

I see today that the Brighton to Bedford services are being delayed due to making extra stops due to trains being cancelled. However I cannot see any Thameslink trains showing up as cancelled on National Rail Enquiries App departure boards. I think they are all going via Redhill. Perhaps it was planned cancellations.

Hardly any Southern services to London were running through Redhill in the peak this morning, reportedly due to the drivers' work to rule. GTR seem to have diverted a few Thameslinks to provide some sort of a service to the poor Redhill commuters.

 

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[Deepgreen]

Can anyone explain why Redhill is so appallingly managed?

It isn't managed. I have never seen anyone that I would take to be a manager there. The service seems to be a constant source of surprise to the staff, who react with the agility and urgency of an oil tanker turning. The station is riddled with equipment faults which appear never to be reported by the staff, or if they are, are simply ignored by those who are supposed to correct them.

Passengers are able to glean more useful information from, for example, RTT, than by using the information provided at the station.

It's a mystery why nothing has ever been done to put in place a proper management regime at this important node, but the Southern shower are unlikely to be interested anyway.

 

[Deepgreen]

Hardly any Southern services to London were running through Redhill in the peak this morning, reportedly due to the drivers' work to rule. GTR seem to have diverted a few Thameslinks to provide some sort of a service to the poor Redhill commuters.

That's odd - RTT shows no London-bound cancellations at Redhill between 0600 and 1000.

 

[peterinlewes]

That's odd - RTT shows no London-bound cancellations at Redhill between 0600 and 1000.

That's because the trains are removed from systems the day before. That way they just don't appear on RTT as cancelled.

Could this be a way of 'cheating' the PPM figures ? You can't cancel a train that's not there in the first place.

If you compare what is shown on RTT on the day with the permanent service you will see lots of trains have just disappeared. Doesn't really show the true scale of disruption.

 

[Deepgreen]

That's because the trains are removed from systems the day before. That way they just don't appear on RTT as cancelled.

Could this be a way of 'cheating' the PPM figures ? You can't cancel a train that's not there in the first place.

If you compare what is shown on RTT on the day with the permanent service you will see lots of trains have just disappeared. Doesn't really show the true scale of disruption.

Indeed possibly, depending on how cancellations are defined/attributed on days with industrial action, but the service was not what could be called "hardly any trains". To put it another way; this morning's London-bound train service from 0600-1000 at Redhill was:
Southern (9 trains)
0617
0650
0707
0725
0824
0831
0858
0918
0935
TL (4 trains)
0627
0713
0819
0927

The 54 minute gap from 0725 was very poor.

 

[Minstral25]

Indeed possibly, depending on how cancellations are defined/attributed on days with industrial action, but the service was not what could be called "hardly any trains". To put it another way; this morning's London-bound train service from 0600-1000 at Redhill was:
Southern (9 trains)
0617
0650
0707
0725
0824
0831
0858
0918
0935
TL (4 trains)
0627
0713
0819
0927

The 54 minute gap from 0725 was very poor.

RTT is not showing the 4 extra stops by trains added by Thameslink and also at Merstham. Additionally extra Southern trains called at Earlswood and Salfords in the hour long gap of no service.

All of this was requested by the local Rail Users you criticise so much and both Southern and Thameslink responded positively.

 

[Robertj21a]

The BBC is reporting that many bus/coach companies across the country are ready to offer vehicles to help out during Southern strikes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38500118

Southern strike: Dozens of rail replacement buses offered
3 January 2017
From the section England
Share
Rail replacement bus
Image caption
Dozens of bus operators have offered to send vehicles for rail replacement services
Dozens of bus and coach companies across England have offered vehicles for rail replacement services during the next Southern train drivers' strike.
Aslef and RMT members are due to walk out for six days from 9 January.
The Confederation of Passenger Transport (CPT) said bus operators from Cornwall to Northumberland were ready to send vehicles to the South East.
Southern said it was still deciding what services might be offered.
A CPT spokeswoman said: "We have had a very good response from quite a few members."
It has sent Southern's parent company, the Go-Ahead Group, a list of operators including family-run firms which are ready to provide buses.
Southern said it planned to announce on Wednesday what rail replacement services might be offered "to some commuters" but warned there would be no trains at all during the strike.
Three weeks ago the government said officials were liaising with CPT "to determine how bus and coach operators can best assist with providing alternative transport".
BBC South East understands the Army was asked before Christmas to prepare contingency plans for soldiers to drive buses.
Out-of-service Southern train at London Victoria during a strikeImage copyrightAFP/GETTY IMAGES
Image caption
Southern said none of its trains would operate during the drivers' strike
"Informal" talks between Southern and Aslef ended at ACAS today without agreement.
A commuter group in east Surrey has written to the prime minister to "find out what is wrong and create a solution" to the long-running dispute about drivers, rather than conductors, operating carriage doors.
It said passengers were "suffering daily, fainting or crying on trains, having health problems, receiving extreme mental anxiety and finding their financial position at high risk".
The government said it would respond to the group shortly.

 

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[Deepgreen]

RTT is not showing the 4 extra stops by trains added by Thameslink and also at Merstham. Additionally extra Southern trains called at Earlswood and Salfords in the hour long gap of no service.

All of this was requested by the local Rail Users you criticise so much and both Southern and Thameslink responded positively.

When have I criticised RRRUG "so much", as you put it? Southern and Thameslink may have responded, but I question how positively and willingly. They probably realised it was prudent to try to fill some gaps or face riots (or the Surrey equivalent, which amounts to some pretty loud 'tutting').

Or the local MPs applied a modicum of pressure behind the scenes.

In any case, my point was that the trains I cited (plus the four you mentioned), did not amount to the previous claim that "hardly anything" ran from Redhill this morning.

 

[infobleep]

Hardly any Southern services to London were running through Redhill in the peak this morning, reportedly due to the drivers' work to rule. GTR seem to have diverted a few Thameslinks to provide some sort of a service to the poor Redhill commuters.

How are they able to justify doing that? I have often been told that they cannot hold connecting trains because it will lead to delays elsewhere. Surely that is also the case with the diverting of trains.

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[Barn]

The local rail users' org is a joke. More interested in playing politics than getting to root cause of 2+ yrs' of pain

ABC (Association of British Commuters) is full of political arguments.

The RRDRUA (Reigate, Redhill and District Rail Users' Association) is a much more practical organisation which does a great deal of useful information dissemination, advice and feedback. They did indeed organise extra Thameslink stops to plug the gap Deepgreen identified.
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How are they able to justify doing that? I have often been told that they cannot hold connecting trains because it will lead to delays elsewhere. Surely that is also the case with the diverting of trains.

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Effectively there are paths for the Thameslinks because there are missing Southern services.