Cumbrian Coast Loco Hauled Stock

[Roose]

It's a shame that we have to wait until next December for these new timetables.

And probably a few months beyond that...

 

[QueensCurve]

I saw one of these sets depart Whiehaven yesterday.

It invoked an amazing nostalgia for the Scotrail Express of the 1980s with the sight and sound of the DBSO leading.

 

[a_c_skinner]

A lot of these stations numbers will be down because of poor ticket selling on trains. Transpennine managed it well. Northern staff, either franchise, seen to not be as likely to sell. Doubtless they have other duties. Actually ticket sales seem most reliable om the LHCS services.

 

[djpontrack]

A lot of these stations numbers will be down because of poor ticket selling on trains. Transpennine managed it well. Northern staff, either franchise, seen to not be as likely to sell. Doubtless they have other duties. Actually ticket sales seem most reliable om the LHCS services.

Quite often Northern have additional ticket sellers onboard the LHCS services. In the Monday to Friday peak times there is more passengers getting on and off services at Bare Lane than Morecambe, there is no staff or platform ticket machines and it is common knowledge that it will be a free ride to Lancaster. This must really affect the station usage figures badly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If this is so much of a problem why don't they install a TVM?

 

[sprinterguy]

I'd just like to point out that the Cumbrian Coast 37s have been awarded a 'Silver Spanner' in the Inter-city sector (where all the loco-hauled formations are grouped) of this year's awards.

I will, however, also mention much more quietly that a 'Silver Spanner' is for greatest improvement in reliability, and despite a 36.79% improvement in Miles per Technical Incident (MTIN), this still leaves them languishing on the bottom of the Inter-city table at 3,315 MTIN, below even the GWR class 180s. It would seem that criticism of their reliability has been well founded.

 

[47802]

I'd just like to point out that the Cumbrian Coast 37s have been awarded a 'Silver Spanner' in the Inter-city sector (where all the loco-hauled formations are grouped) of this year's awards.

I will, however, also mention much more quietly that a 'Silver Spanner' is for greatest improvement in reliability, and despite a 36.79% improvement in Miles per Technical Incident (MTIN), this still leaves them languishing on the bottom of the Inter-city table at 3,315 MTIN, below even the GWR class 180s. It would seem that criticism of their reliability has been well founded.

Of course it was, and it sounds like its gone from totally unacceptable to vaguely acceptable. Which is why once more rolling stock becomes available these trains have no place on a 21st century railway.

 

[87015]

Of course it was, and it sounds like its gone from totally unacceptable to vaguely acceptable. Which is why once more rolling stock becomes available these trains have no place on a 21st century railway.

What about all the "failures" that are effectively Northern staff just not being interested or plain not wanting them. Failing it for no heat counts in the figures even when the 'failure' is the EH switch is off... I'm not saying they are any good, but figures show little - LO 317s have gone through the roof on MTIN, but in reality they are still a bunch of absolute crates that aren't allowed on the mainline alone - that bad - but Modern Railways deem them award winning. Statistics...

 

[QueensCurve]

What about all the "failures" that are effectively Northern staff just not being interested or plain not wanting them. Failing it for no heat counts in the figures even when the 'failure' is the EH switch is off... I'm not saying they are any good, but figures show little - LO 317s have gone through the roof on MTIN, but in reality they are still a bunch of absolute crates that aren't allowed on the mainline alone - that bad - but Modern Railways deem them award winning. Statistics...

Why would the the Northern staff be "Plain not wanting them"?

 

[RichmondCommu]

I'd just like to point out that the Cumbrian Coast 37s have been awarded a 'Silver Spanner' in the Inter-city sector (where all the loco-hauled formations are grouped) of this year's awards.

I will, however, also mention much more quietly that a 'Silver Spanner' is for greatest improvement in reliability, and despite a 36.79% improvement in Miles per Technical Incident (MTIN), this still leaves them languishing on the bottom of the Inter-city table at 3,315 MTIN, below even the GWR class 180s. It would seem that criticism of their reliability has been well founded.

When are the class 37's likely to be replaced? Given their issues with reliability you would hope that this would be sooner rather than later.

 

[Mordac]

When are the class 37's likely to be replaced? Given their issues with reliability you would hope that this would be sooner rather than later.

Franchise agreement says 2019 I think.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Franchise agreement says 2019 I think.

Blimey that's a long time to put up with unreliable trains.

 

[221129]

Blimey that's a long time to put up with unreliable trains.

Surely better than no trains?

 

[yorksrob]

Blimey that's a long time to put up with unreliable trains.

Or indeed the situation that has led to my non-loco hauled train being cancelled so often. Although that's only boring old staffing issues, so doesn't raise as much interest on here.

 

[Mordac]

Blimey that's a long time to put up with unreliable trains.

5 of January 2019 to be more precise, so arguably at the end of 2018. Still yeah, two more years of these museum pieces basically.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Surely better than no trains?

Oh absolutely but is that good enough for anyone buying a train ticket and expecting a train to turn up as scheduled and then finding that it is cancelled due to mechanical failure?

 

[RichmondCommu]

Or indeed the situation that has led to my non-loco hauled train being cancelled so often. Although that's only boring old staffing issues, so doesn't raise as much interest on here.

Well I would have thought that staffing issues are easier to sort out than clapped out locos / rolling stock.

 

[yorksrob]

Well I would have thought that staffing issues are easier to sort out than clapped out locos / rolling stock.

And yet still they abound (even though they predate the introduction of comfortable mk2's).

 

[70014IronDuke]

Oh absolutely ...

Is it? At what point is it actually better to tell punters: folks, we can't provide a train reliably, so we won't advertise one in the TT?

After all, if you get up at 05.30 every weekday to go to work at Sellafield (or somewhere else on the line) for an 07.00 start, it must be extremely galling to find your train seriously late 2-3-4 times a month, not to mention unreliability of the return working in the afternoon.

Still, it seems the reliability of the LHCS services has improved in the last month.

Yesterday was a bad day though - trains caped or stopped short all over the place

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...27/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt

But from what i see, the 37s are not being deployed right now. Do they have enough DMUs to work at times when large numbers are taking extended holidays?

 

[Lemmy99uk]

The issue yesterday was a power failure to the signal box at Workington.

Network Rails infrastructure on the Cumbrian Coast is as clapped out as the 37s.

 

[QueensCurve]

TNetwork Rails infrastructure on the Cumbrian Coast is as clapped out as the 37s.

For those unfamiliar with the route, the Cumbrian Coast is very much a railway that runs on 19th Century technology. There as been a little bit of an update in the Sellafield to Drigg area in the late 1980s, but even there it remains stuck in the past.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The issue yesterday was a power failure to the signal box at Workington.

Network Rails infrastructure on the Cumbrian Coast is as clapped out as the 37s.

Why?

NR are receiving the money to maintain the whole network at a 'steady state'. Where is the money going?

 

[QueensCurve]

Why?

NR are receiving the money to maintain the whole network at a 'steady state'. Where is the money going?

.
That is the steady state of a railway which runs very much on 19th Century technology. Even the minimal upgrade which would have transferred control of Drigg to Sellafield box was never completed.

Did BR have plans to transfer control to Carlisle and/or Preston Power Boxes? If so, was it frustrated by lack of money for investment? Was RETB ever considered?

 

[Foggycorner]

The signaling up the coast is cheap simple and easy to put right when it goes wrong
It was never down for transfer to Preston or Carlisle PSBs
If it works don't mess with it is a good rule of thumb

 

[QueensCurve]

The signaling up the coast is cheap simple and easy to put right when it goes wrong
It was never down for transfer to Preston or Carlisle PSBs
If it works don't mess with it is a good rule of thumb

It is also labour intensive and therefore costly to operate.

 

[70014IronDuke]

It is also labour intensive and therefore costly to operate.

and isn't this one reason why

a) the last through train train ex Barrow is around 18.30, and ex Carlisle is 17.37 (neither being really late enough for proper connectivity beyond those stations themselves)

b) No Sunday service whatsoever between Whitehaven and Barrow.

As a further observation

Over Xmas-New Year, if the info on RTT is correct, it seems the loco hauled trains have been suspended, with everything DMU.

While this may be a blow for any bashers seeking a wintry blast from a Cl 37, it seems that timekeeping of the early trains has improved. (This morning was an exception - the 08.43 off Carlisle was 15 late).

However, not only have I not seen any major failures, the niggling 3 lates and 5 lates which seem so common with the LHCS seem to have been largely eliminated.

This could be down to reduced passenger numbers, of course, but I wonder if it's also down to automatic doors? For example, i've seen many times that the LHCS loses 5-6 minutes between Carlisle and Wigton, sometimes even Dalston - the latter seems difficult to achieve, at least from a distance - unless it can be explained by the guard having to run up and down the train closing doors. Unless there are other issues that anyone knows about?

 

[47802]

and isn't this one reason why

a) the last through train train ex Barrow is around 18.30, and ex Carlisle is 17.37 (neither being really late enough for proper connectivity beyond those stations themselves)

b) No Sunday service whatsoever between Whitehaven and Barrow.

As a further observation

Over Xmas-New Year, if the info on RTT is correct, it seems the loco hauled trains have been suspended, with everything DMU.

While this may be a blow for any bashers seeking a wintry blast from a Cl 37, it seems that timekeeping of the early trains has improved. (This morning was an exception - the 08.43 off Carlisle was 15 late).

However, not only have I not seen any major failures, the niggling 3 lates and 5 lates which seem so common with the LHCS seem to have been largely eliminated.

This could be down to reduced passenger numbers, of course, but I wonder if it's also down to automatic doors? For example, i've seen many times that the LHCS loses 5-6 minutes between Carlisle and Wigton, sometimes even Dalston - the latter seems difficult to achieve, at least from a distance - unless it can be explained by the guard having to run up and down the train closing doors. Unless there are other issues that anyone knows about?

From reports elsewhere the 37's were working more or less as normal between Xmas and New Year. reliability does seemed to have improved a bit of late, and there is now the added standby loco no doubt adding more cost to an already expensive operation.

 

[RichmondCommu]

And yet still they abound (even though they predate the introduction of comfortable mk2's).

Well by all accounts they are neither thriving or flourishing on the Cumbrian Coast route.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

The punctuality has improved over the Xmas/New Year break partly due to at least 1 set running 3 vice 4

 

[yorksrob]

Well by all accounts they are neither thriving or flourishing on the Cumbrian Coast route.

The staff themselves don't seem to be flourishing, hence the issues.