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Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

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Dart34518

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All being well 2410 will run in passenger service tomorrow from Brighton to Eastbourne as a one way additional service.

2Z42 11.00 Brighton-Eastbourne.

Cheers

AY
 
R

RichardKing

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Yandell01 said:
All being well 2410 will run in passenger service tomorrow from Brighton to Eastbourne as a one way additional service.

2Z42 11.00 Brighton-Eastbourne.

Cheers

AY
Click to expand...

The service, according to RTT, was on time throughout the entirety of the journey! There are a couple of photos floating around on Twitter of the unit...it appears that it was relatively empty (although, the one picture of inside the train only showed first class - I'm not sure how many people know about the blanket declassification).
 
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M

Muzer

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So are there still any regular 442 diagrams that are consistent? Any on weekends?
 
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RichardKing

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Muzer said:
So are there still any regular 442 diagrams that are consistent? Any on weekends?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about weekends, but these (currently) are the regular weekday 442 diagrams:
(SL51 & 52):
5F82 - (06+45) Eastbourne Sidings to Eastbourne (07:00);
1F82 - (07:12) Eastbourne to London Bridge 08:50);
5F82 - (09+00) London Bridge to Streatham Hill Shed (10+03);
3F27 - (16+55) Streatham Hill Shed to London Bridge (17:45);
1B47 - (17:57) London Bridge to Brighton (19:07);
5B47 - (19+22) Brighton to Lovers Walk (19+42);
5H70 - (22+00) Lovers Walk to Hove Yard (22+27);
BERTH

(SL59 & 60):
5A65 - (06+55) Hove Yard to Brighton (07+21);
1B08 - (07:32) Brighton to London Bridge (08:45);
5B13 - (08+58) London Bridge to Lovers Walk (10+18);
5B46 - (16+11) Lovers Walk to Brighton (16+31);
1B46 - (16:58) Brighton to London Bridge (18:04);
1F83 - (18:23) London Bridge to Eastbourne (19:55);
5F83 - (20+16) Eastbourne to Eastbourne Sidings (20+18);
BERTH

I say the word 'currently' at the start of this as, as mentioned above, the last of the GTR 442s are now expected to go off-lease by the end of January, with the 377s, made available by the introduction of the 700s to certain Southern routes, able to replace them on the above services. Sad really, as I was hoping to get a lot of use out of the 442s over the next couple of years.
 
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387star

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Class377/5 said:
Date was never January 2018 IIRC.

Who said there is a reduction in the 377s going to Southeastern? Or do people actually expect SE to swap 6x TL 377 for 32x SN 377 in a single weekend? Its a cascade that got steps not all at once folks. Especially as the SN 377 are released by the arrival of 700 on current Southern services (Horsham, Littlehampton, East Grinstead) during 2017.
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when is this going to happen though surely not for months as drivers need to learn new routes/southern drivers learning 700s ? so not till tail end of 2017?
 
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O

OFFDN

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RichardKing said:
I'm not sure about weekends, but these (currently) are the regular weekday 442 diagrams:
(SL51 & 52):
5F82 - (06+45) Eastbourne Sidings to Eastbourne (07:00);
1F82 - (07:12) Eastbourne to London Bridge 08:50);
5F82 - (09+00) London Bridge to Streatham Hill Shed (10+03);
3F27 - (16+55) Streatham Hill Shed to London Bridge (17:45);
1B47 - (17:57) London Bridge to Brighton (19:07);
5B47 - (19+22) Brighton to Lovers Walk (19+42);
5H70 - (22+00) Lovers Walk to Hove Yard (22+27);
BERTH

(SL59 & 60):
5A65 - (06+55) Hove Yard to Brighton (07+21);
1B08 - (07:32) Brighton to London Bridge (08:45);
5B13 - (08+58) London Bridge to Lovers Walk (10+18);
5B46 - (16+11) Lovers Walk to Brighton (16+31);
1B46 - (16:58) Brighton to London Bridge (18:04);
1F83 - (18:23) London Bridge to Eastbourne (19:55);
5F83 - (20+16) Eastbourne to Eastbourne Sidings (20+18);
BERTH

I say the word 'currently' at the start of this as, as mentioned above, the last of the GTR 442s are now expected to go off-lease by the end of January, with the 377s, made available by the introduction of the 700s to certain Southern routes, able to replace them on the above services. Sad really, as I was hoping to get a lot of use out of the 442s over the next couple of years.
Click to expand...

The workings from 08/01/2017 until they are removed should be as follows for those interested. No weekend working and I've copied your post and put the changes from said date in bold.


(SL51 & 52):
5F82 - (06+45) Eastbourne Sidings to Eastbourne (07:00);
1F82 - (07:12) Eastbourne to London Bridge 08:50);
5F82 - (09+00) London Bridge to Streatham Hill Shed (10+03);
3F27 - (16+55) Streatham Hill Shed to London Bridge (17:48);
1B47 - (17:57) London Bridge to Brighton (19:07);
5B47 - (19+22) Brighton to Lovers Walk (19+42); (MONDAY TO THURSDAY)
5B47 - (19+38) Brighton to Lovers Walk (19+58); (FRIDAY ONLY)
5H70 - (22+00) Lovers Walk to Hove Yard (22+27);
BERTH

(SL53 & 54):
5A65 - (06+55) Hove Yard to Brighton (07+21);
1B08 - (07:32) Brighton to London Bridge (08:45);
5B13 - (08+58) London Bridge to Lovers Walk (10+18);
5B46 - (16+26) Lovers Walk to Brighton (16+46);
1B46 - (16:58) Brighton to London Bridge (18:04);
1F83 - (18:23) London Bridge to Eastbourne (19:55);
5F83 - (20+16) Eastbourne to Eastbourne Sidings (20+18);
BERTH

There are also EITHER/OR workings for SL 51 & 52. The following workings are down as either 442 (51 & 52) or 455 (534 & 535) and must run to retain driver route competency.

5Y81 - (11+54) Streatham Hill Shed to Stewarts Lane Depot via Leigham Junction and Herne Hill (12+49)
5Y82 - (14+35) Stewarts Lane Depot to Streatham Hill Shed via Herne Hill and Leigham Junction (15+35)
 
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MatthewRead

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OFFDN said:
The workings from 08/01/2017 until they are removed should be as follows for those interested. No weekend working and I've copied your post and put the changes from said date in bold.


(SL51 & 52):
5F82 - (06+45) Eastbourne Sidings to Eastbourne (07:00);
1F82 - (07:12) Eastbourne to London Bridge 08:50);
5F82 - (09+00) London Bridge to Streatham Hill Shed (10+03);
3F27 - (16+55) Streatham Hill Shed to London Bridge (17:48);
1B47 - (17:57) London Bridge to Brighton (19:07);
5B47 - (19+22) Brighton to Lovers Walk (19+42); (MONDAY TO THURSDAY)
5B47 - (19+38) Brighton to Lovers Walk (19+58); (FRIDAY ONLY)
5H70 - (22+00) Lovers Walk to Hove Yard (22+27);
BERTH

(SL53 & 54):
5A65 - (06+55) Hove Yard to Brighton (07+21);
1B08 - (07:32) Brighton to London Bridge (08:45);
5B13 - (08+58) London Bridge to Lovers Walk (10+18);
5B46 - (16+26) Lovers Walk to Brighton (16+46);
1B46 - (16:58) Brighton to London Bridge (18:04);
1F83 - (18:23) London Bridge to Eastbourne (19:55);
5F83 - (20+16) Eastbourne to Eastbourne Sidings (20+18);
BERTH

There are also EITHER/OR workings for SL 51 & 52. The following workings are down as either 442 (51 & 52) or 455 (534 & 535) and must run to retain driver route competency.

5Y81 - (11+54) Streatham Hill Shed to Stewarts Lane Depot via Leigham Junction and Herne Hill (12+49)
5Y82 - (14+35) Stewarts Lane Depot to Streatham Hill Shed via Herne Hill and Leigham Junction (15+35)
Click to expand...
Yes sadly no booked weekend workings i wish they would add some for us gricers:(
 
Darandio

Darandio

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MatthewRead said:
Yes sadly no booked weekend workings i wish they would add some for us gricers:(
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I'm sure you are already aware, but just in case you weren't I shall repeat what is often said. The railway is not run for the benefit of enthusiasts.
 
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Bishopstone

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Good news that the last 442s are to be eradicated from the Brighton main line. Trying to run the 18.23 London Bridge - Eastbourne with 442s, on 377 timings, was a disaster from day one which impacted the performance of other services on the BML.

As the demands of the Thameslink 2018 timetable approach, there is no place on a crowded main line for overweight, under-powered machines with tiny doors, running stopping services.
 
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cjmillsnun

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I'm going to have to break my pact not to give GTR any money. I would love one last ride on a Piggie.
 
spark001uk

spark001uk

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Are the 442s ceasing the Eastbourne sooner now then? Do we have a final date?
 
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swt_passenger

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MatthewRead said:
Hang on I thought the 442 lease expires in December 2018??
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That isn't a requirement to use them for the full extent of the lease - they'll be able to hand them back by negotiation. Clearly they have already handed back the 18 expected in line with their franchise bid. But back when they were being converted for the Gatwick and Brighton line use I expect the ROSCO anticipated that would possibly last a bit longer.

AIUI from the ITT there was a section 54 agreement on 17 of the 442s that required there use until Dec 2015, but that has obviously lapsed.
 
43096

43096

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swt_passenger said:
That isn't a requirement to use them for the full extent of the lease - they'll be able to hand them back by negotiation. Clearly they have already handed back the 18 expected in line with their franchise bid. But back when they were being converted for the Gatwick and Brighton line use I expect the ROSCO anticipated that would possibly last a bit longer.



AIUI from the ITT there was a section 54 agreement on 17 of the 442s that required there use until Dec 2015, but that has obviously lapsed.
Click to expand...

If the lease is until Dec 18 then the only way you'll be able to hand them back is to pay up the lease or find someone else to lease them to. You cannot just arbitrarily terminate the lease without suitable contractual reason (e.g. break point in the contract).
 
Class377/5

Class377/5

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387star said:
when is this going to happen though surely not for months as drivers need to learn new routes/southern drivers learning 700s ? so not till tail end of 2017?
Click to expand...

Your right, its months. It'll help with the TL units coming over in 2017.

Worth noting 377211 is already back with Southern (and under going some work) with 377209 at Stewarts Lane at present awaiting to follow 211.

43096 said:
If the lease is until Dec 18 then the only way you'll be able to hand them back is to pay up the lease or find someone else to lease them to. You cannot just arbitrarily terminate the lease without suitable contractual reason (e.g. break point in the contract).
Click to expand...

There are bidders circling the 442's.
 
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cjmillsnun

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Class377/5 said:
There are bidders circling the 442's.
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As much as I love the 442s, I do wonder why. They have costs involved in making them suitable for loco haulage. SWT or their successor won't want them anywhere near the SWML or Pompey Direct and the same goes for GTR and SE on their routes.
 
spark001uk

spark001uk

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cjmillsnun said:
As much as I love the 442s, I do wonder why. They have costs involved in making them suitable for loco haulage. SWT or their successor won't want them anywhere near the SWML or Pompey Direct and the same goes for GTR and SE on their routes.
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Since you've time-travelled and know their successor won't want them, perhaps you could tell us who that successor is!? ;)
 
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physics34

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Class377/5 said:
Your right, its months. It'll help with the TL units coming over in 2017.

Worth noting 377211 is already back with Southern (and under going some work) with 377209 at Stewarts Lane at present awaiting to follow 211.



There are bidders circling the 442's.
Click to expand...

Which are the 3x 377/2s with FCC vinyls?
 
BestWestern

BestWestern

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cjmillsnun said:
As much as I love the 442s, I do wonder why. They have costs involved in making them suitable for loco haulage. SWT or their successor won't want them anywhere near the SWML or Pompey Direct and the same goes for GTR and SE on their routes.
Click to expand...

I don't see how or why it would be up to a TOC to decide what traction other TOCs are permitted to operate?
 
TT-ONR-NRN

TT-ONR-NRN

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Apparently they will be used on fast services out of Waterloo to Southampton Central calling at Hook, Basingstoke and Winchester under the brand of Great southern so it will be nice to see them on the SW Mainline again! :D
 
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Suraggu

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TT-ONR-NRN said:
Apparently they will be used on fast services out of Waterloo to Southampton Central calling at Hook, Basingstoke and Winchester under the brand of Great southern so it will be nice to see them on the SW Mainline again! :D
Click to expand...

No that has been proposed by Alliance Rail but many across the industry have said it is unworkable and will not create growth.
 
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