Information for GTR Southern passengers during strike (no DOO discussion)

[Deepgreen]

Last time I was there, I'm sure it was CD/RA with platform staff

As it is at Redhill.

 

[Barn]

Interesting. I thought all new DOO was by train cameras. I guess Littlehampton will be CD/RA with platform staff.

Also Haywards Heath, Brighton and Bognor Regis.

 

[Controller1701]

Cue bus drivers strikes over demarcation issues.

Last night at Redhill was 'interesting' - the information system there still believes that three trains can fit in one platform at the same time - the 1741 Gatwick, the 1743 Reading and the 1747 Tonbridge are all shown every day as occupying platform 1 together until the daily (again) last-minute correction!!

Last time I was at Redhill all platforms were capable of holding 12 coaches so that is very feasible, Tonbridge service at the London end, Reading second train in and sit in the middle then train to Gatwick as the third arrival and sits at the country end. There you have 3 trains that do indeed fit in on platform at exactly the same time.

 

[GodAtum]

does anyone know all the days 1st class has been declassified? I can claim for all for this week, but unsure about past weeks.

 

[Wookiee]

Just to add to the woes this evening, some old goat drove their car on to the track at Yapton level crossing, stopping everything in the Barnham area for a few hours.

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1498...acks__train_passengers_face_three_hour_delay/

The 1506 and 1536 ex-Victorias (which were already pretty late) were diverted to Littlehampton, where everyone had to get on a No.700 bus towards Chichester. Happy days.

 

[Hophead]

Just to add to the woes this evening, some old goat drove their car on to the track at Yapton level crossing, stopping everything in the Barnham area for a few hours.

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1498...acks__train_passengers_face_three_hour_delay/

The 1506 and 1536 ex-Victorias (which were already pretty late) were diverted to Littlehampton, where everyone had to get on a No.700 bus towards Chichester. Happy days.

Noticed Tuesday that Southern had finally bothered to arrange ticket acceptance on the 700 (but not during the evening peak) during the ASLEF strike

 

[gavin]

You couldn't make it up...

https://twitter.com/lukejalexander/status/811670608463482881

 

[infobleep]

Yesterday I noticed that the Southern trust do and FROM Guildford were showing up as cancelled. Today they are still cancelled but not showing up as cancelled.

Is this due to someone accidentally loading in the wrong timetable?

I saw someone moaning on Twitter today that for the second day in a row, overnight they had cancelled a train they catch. So Twitter user checks night before and train running. Checks again in morning and it's cancelled due to driver overtime ban. The train runs between 7-8am.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[zoneking]

Southern are not running any services to and from Guildford until further notice.
This is a pity because there is a huge gap in the SWT service to Guildford from Epsom in the morning from 06.20 to 08.17.

 

[Deepgreen]

Last time I was at Redhill all platforms were capable of holding 12 coaches so that is very feasible, Tonbridge service at the London end, Reading second train in and sit in the middle then train to Gatwick as the third arrival and sits at the country end. There you have 3 trains that do indeed fit in on platform at exactly the same time.

No, Redhill's platform 1 cannot accommodate three separate trains (remembering the distance left between each train when drawing up) without the southern-most one fouling the starting signal which used to protect the engineering loops and, despite those having been lifted, still operates.

 

[Deepgreen]

Redhill provided another surprise this morning (to the staff as well as passengers, yet again!) when an additional TL 0832 departure to Bedford turned up at 0837. As this follows the 0831 to Victoria, one minute is insufficient timetabling headway so it was never going to be to time. The station staff yet again appeared to have no knowledge of this working, despite it being on RTT!! The platform indicators only changed to show it when it had arrived. So, for the second day running at Redhill, many passengers knew more about the train service than the staff!

No on-board information (two 377/5s), except to tell us not to attempt to alight at Elephant and Castle, despite the doors being released and many passengers leaving and joining, and that as we sat outside Blackfriars, we were "now approaching City Thameslink"!

 

[Controller1701]

All platforms at Redhill have an operational capacity of 12 = 246.9 Metres. As I have never known at any time for Reading services to be formed of four coaches that then leaves (being generous and treating the Gatwick service as a GTR service rather than an FGW service) that leaves a 4 car for Gatwick, 3 car (again treating as max length) for Reading and 4 car for Tonbridge (4+3+4=11) resulting in the trains being allowed a maximum of 1/3 coach length between each train and still fitting in between T490 and T493 signals especially by your own admission that T491 now protects nothing (I have also personally been on a train that has started from in advance of T491 when the sidings were in use)

Paul

 

[Islineclear3_1]

You couldn't make it up...

https://twitter.com/lukejalexander/status/811670608463482881

Presume this is the fire-damaged MSLO from 377.442. Anyone know where this was destined to go?

 

[infobleep]

Southern are not running any services to and from Guildford until further notice.
This is a pity because there is a huge gap in the SWT service to Guildford from Epsom in the morning from 06.20 to 08.17.

I know, which is why it was odd to see it listed as cancelled yesterday but not cancelled today, given its cancelled every day.

The gaps are not South West Trains problem of course.

Perhaps if this dispute rumbles on for months, they could transfer the paths to the next franchise holder that will run the existing South West Trains network. Not all the way into Victoria or London Bridge but at least part of the way.

After all, South West Trains seems to either employ enough staff or have the good will of their drivers to do some overtime. I hope this will continue with the next franchise holder, which hopefully will be South West Trains.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Deepgreen]

All platforms at Redhill have an operational capacity of 12 = 246.9 Metres. As I have never known at any time for Reading services to be formed of four coaches that then leaves (being generous and treating the Gatwick service as a GTR service rather than an FGW service) that leaves a 4 car for Gatwick, 3 car (again treating as max length) for Reading and 4 car for Tonbridge (4+3+4=11) resulting in the trains being allowed a maximum of 1/3 coach length between each train and still fitting in between T490 and T493 signals especially by your own admission that T491 now protects nothing (I have also personally been on a train that has started from in advance of T491 when the sidings were in use)

Paul

I'd be interested to know, then, why panic always ensues among the staff when platform 1 is occupied by two trains and a third is waiting to enter. In my experience of four and a half years twice-daily use, three service trains have never occupied the same platform, unless they are splitting there. Indeed, the other day, a Reigate-bound train had to be shunted to the north end of platform 2 (with passengers aboard) to allow a Gatwick GWR train to enter the platform, because platform 1 had two trains (1 GWR service and 1 GWR failed) in it already, although there was space available for a third three car unit to have used at the country end (which would have fouled T491).

What is the status of T491 now - could it be taken out of use?

How is signal T491 regarded from a SPAD perspective?

 

[infobleep]

Redhill provided another surprise this morning (to the staff as well as passengers, yet again!) when an additional TL 0832 departure to Bedford turned up at 0837. As this follows the 0831 to Victoria, one minute is insufficient timetabling headway so it was never going to be to time. The station staff yet again appeared to have no knowledge of this working, despite it being on RTT!! The platform indicators only changed to show it when it had arrived. So, for the second day running at Redhill, many passengers knew more about the train service than the staff!

No on-board information (two 377/5s), except to tell us not to attempt to alight at Elephant and Castle, despite the doors being released and many passengers leaving and joining, and that as we sat outside Blackfriars, we were "now approaching City Thameslink"!

If this was a surprise to passengers, how did they know more about it than staff? Did they all suddenly go to RTT and look it up once it turned up? How long was it in the platform for?

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Deepgreen]

Presume this is the fire-damaged MSLO from 377.442. Anyone know where this was destined to go?

I assumed that too but the shot on the BBC News this morning showed an apparently undamaged vehicle (apart from the lamp-post scrapes, of course!).

 

[Deepgreen]

If this was a surprise to passengers, how did they know more about it than staff? Did they all suddenly go to RTT and look it up once it turned up? How long was it in the platform for?

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Many passengers now check RTT in response to the dire information provided at Redhill and elsewhere - its not just the enthusiasts who use it nowadays! A friend and I were waiting at 0833 (having alighted from the slightly late GWR train from Reading), resigned to waiting for the 0853 to Victoria, but he found the TL 0832 on RTT (he's a 'civilian') and queried it against the indicator display, which did not show it until it had actually arrived. Dwell time was about a minute.

A similar thing happened yesterday when the 0853 was absent from all screens until the last moment and I overheard the platform staff asking the driver what train this was (!!) - many of us had been following the 12 late train on RTT long before it arrived! Hence, (many) passengers knowing considerably more than the staff on two consecutive mornings.

 

[swt class 450]

All platforms at Redhill have an operational capacity of 12 = 246.9 Metres. As I have never known at any time for Reading services to be formed of four coaches that then leaves (being generous and treating the Gatwick service as a GTR service rather than an FGW service) that leaves a 4 car for Gatwick, 3 car (again treating as max length) for Reading and 4 car for Tonbridge (4+3+4=11) resulting in the trains being allowed a maximum of 1/3 coach length between each train and still fitting in between T490 and T493 signals especially by your own admission that T491 now protects nothing (I have also personally been on a train that has started from in advance of T491 when the sidings were in use)

Paul

North Downs Line services are occasionally (a few times a year) formed of 6 coaches. Although when this happens the rear unit is normally locked out of use.

 

[Deepgreen]

North Downs Line services are occasionally (a few times a year) formed of 6 coaches. Although when this happens the rear unit is normally locked out of use.

They can only exceed three with the second unit locked or otherwise out of use. I have seen it done twice in over four years of regular use of the route, the second being this week, when, in fact, the rear three were not locked (but should have been), as shown when the train stopped at Betchworth with the rear unit trailing across the level crossing with all its door indicator lights on! As this is a six car platform it could have stopped clear of the crossing, but...

 

[tsr]

Can't comment exactly as I don't sign that stock, but many similar classes of traction will still illuminate the BIL lights on door release even if the doors / coaches have been locked out of use. In fact, BIL lights which don't illuminate with door release of manually locked doors largely seem to have been brought in after the introduction of the 16x and most 17x units. So unless you are right by the doors and can push the button to try it (or see the "out of use" door lights, where provided), you can't tell if they've been locked out.

As for the stopping position, there may only be a marker for 2-3 coach formations and therefore, if the driver or conductor had confirmed that the rear doors were locked out, they would use the only available stop marker to accommodate those coaches which were in use. Plenty of trains stop across busy level crossings anyway (Littlehaven, not that far away, is just one example) so it's hardly like that situation is unheard of.

 

[Deepgreen]

Can't comment exactly as I don't sign that stock, but many similar classes of traction will still illuminate the BIL lights on door release even if the doors / coaches have been locked out of use. In fact, BIL lights which don't illuminate with door release of manually locked doors largely seem to have been brought in after the introduction of the 16x and most 17x units. So unless you are right by the doors and can push the button to try it (or see the "out of use" door lights, where provided), you can't tell if they've been locked out.

As for the stopping position, there may only be a marker for 2-3 coach formations and therefore, if the driver or conductor had confirmed that the rear doors were locked out, they would use the only available stop marker to accommodate those coaches which were in use. Plenty of trains stop across busy level crossings anyway (Littlehaven, not that far away, is just one example) so it's hardly like that situation is unheard of.

1. Thanks for that.

2. Betchworth westbound does have a 6 car stopping board.

 

[GodAtum]

Are the timetables out for the 1st yet?

 

[74A]

They can only exceed three with the second unit locked or otherwise out of use. I have seen it done twice in over four years of regular use of the route, the second being this week, when, in fact, the rear three were not locked (but should have been), as shown when the train stopped at Betchworth with the rear unit trailing across the level crossing with all its door indicator lights on! As this is a six car platform it could have stopped clear of the crossing, but...

I believe on turbo the door indicator light will always illuminate. The doors themselves will be locked out of use.

 

[infobleep]

Are the timetables out for the 1st yet?

Doesn't it only get released at 14.00 the day before?

 

[Chrisgr31]

I assumed that too but the shot on the BBC News this morning showed an apparently undamaged vehicle (apart from the lamp-post scrapes, of course!).

I thought that the photo showed smoke damage over the top of the door at the end of the unit

 

[Skimble19]

Many passengers now check RTT in response to the dire information provided at Redhill and elsewhere - its not just the enthusiasts who use it nowadays! A friend and I were waiting at 0833 (having alighted from the slightly late GWR train from Reading), resigned to waiting for the 0853 to Victoria, but he found the TL 0832 on RTT (he's a 'civilian') and queried it against the indicator display, which did not show it until it had actually arrived. Dwell time was about a minute.

A similar thing happened yesterday when the 0853 was absent from all screens until the last moment and I overheard the platform staff asking the driver what train this was (!!) - many of us had been following the 12 late train on RTT long before it arrived! Hence, (many) passengers knowing considerably more than the staff on two consecutive mornings.

Perhaps it's because the staff are actually doing things whilst your all apparently standing there staring at RTT?

 

[infobleep]

Surprised to see trains running to Ore and Littlehampton today from Victoria.

 

[swt class 450]

They can only exceed three with the second unit locked or otherwise out of use. I have seen it done twice in over four years of regular use of the route, the second being this week, when, in fact, the rear three were not locked (but should have been), as shown when the train stopped at Betchworth with the rear unit trailing across the level crossing with all its door indicator lights on! As this is a six car platform it could have stopped clear of the crossing, but...

It would be useful if the 165s and 166s were fitted with SDO as most of the platforms on the North Downs Line (except Dorking Deepdene) can fit more than three coaches.

As far as i am aware this is how many coaches they can fit each.

Betchworth - P1 - Eastbound - 6 coaches
Betchworth - P2 - Westbound - 4 coaches
Dorking Deepdene - P1 - Eastbound - 3 coaches
Dorking Deepdene - P2 - Westbound - 3 coaches
Dorking West - P1 - Eastbound - 6 coaches
Dorking West - P2 - Westbound - 6 coaches
Gomshall - P1 - Eastbound - 4 coaches
Gomshall - P2 - Westbound - 4 coaches
Chilworth - P1 - Eastbound - 4 coaches
Chilworth - P2 - Westbound - 4 coaches
Shalford - P1 - Eastbound - 6 coaches
Shalford - P2 - Westbound - 6 coaches

Does anyone know the exact length of these platforms (in metres)?

 

[causton]

Betchworth - P1 - Eastbound - 4 coaches - 93m
Betchworth - P2 - Westbound - 7 coaches - 140.2m
Dorking Deepdene - P1 - Eastbound - 4 coaches - 87.8m
Dorking Deepdene - P2 - Westbound - 4 coaches - 87.8m
Dorking West - P1 - Eastbound - 5 coaches - 111.9m
Dorking West - P2 - Westbound - 5 coaches - 102.7m
Gomshall - P1 - Eastbound - 3 coaches - 91.44m
Gomshall - P2 - Westbound - 3 coaches - 91.44m
Chilworth - P1 - Eastbound - 4 coaches - 85.95m
Chilworth - P2 - Westbound - 4 coaches - 85.95m
Shalford - P1 - Eastbound - 6 coaches - 104.24m
Shalford - P2 - Westbound - 6 coaches - 97.84m

As per the Sectional Appendix. (Shalford is 6 at 97m, but Dorking West is 5 at 102m? Okay...)