Another fare related question: Canning Town to Hoxton

[euanovsky]

I have a zone 2-4 annual season ticket on my oyster card. I was going to Canning Town to Hoxton the other day. My journey is like this

Touched in at Canning Town and took the jubilee line to Stratford
Did not touch in the pink reader at Stratford (I'll explain why below)
From Stratford took the overground to Dalston Kingsland where I touched out.
Walked to Dalston Junction where I touched in.
Overground to Hoxton where I touched out.

I was charged the fare for travelling around zone 1. I called TFL and explained the situation and they refunded me and advised me to touch in the pink reader in Stratford in future.

I did not touch in the pink reader at Stratford because I thought by touching in at Dalston Kingsland my route (that I didn't travel via zone 1) became obvious. So I was surprised I got charged the via zone 1 fare as that will require an unbroken journey (e.g. travelling via Canada Water or via Central Line to somewhere central via Stratford or other convoluted route).

I still don't quite understand why I am required to touch in the pink reader at Stratford if I touch out at Dalston Kingsland?

Another question: Hypothetically speaking, if I were to start my journey from Stratford to Hoxton, do I still need to touch in the pink reader? The difference between this hypothetical journey and mine is that arguably this is the most straightforward route to Hoxton from Stratford, whereas you can argue Canning Town to Hoxton via Stratford is not the most straightforward route (but then I did touch out at Dalston Kingsland - didn't that make it "straightforward"??)

 

[Paul Kelly]

This shows that you need to touch the pink reader at Stratford if going from Canning Town to Hoxton via Dalston: http://www.ltfares.com/#!fares?orig=LUCGT&dest=NRHOX
Strangely you don't need to if you touched in at Stratford; the default fare assumes you avoid Zone 1:
http://www.ltfares.com/#!fares?orig=NRSRA&dest=NRHOX

Looking at the tube map, it looks like you could get from Canning Town to Dalston Kingsland via Zone 1 relatively easily without touching any intermediate barriers by changing at Bank, Old Street and Highbury & Islington? Maybe that is why it requires you to touch the reader at Stratford? The same could probably be said for starting at Stratford though, but it's not quite as convenient a journey.

 

[MikeWh]

I was charged the fare for travelling around zone 1. I called TFL and explained the situation and they refunded me and advised me to touch in the pink reader in Stratford in future.

I did not touch in the pink reader at Stratford because I thought by touching in at Dalston Kingsland my route (that I didn't travel via zone 1) became obvious. So I was surprised I got charged the via zone 1 fare as that will require an unbroken journey (e.g. travelling via Canada Water or via Central Line to somewhere central via Stratford or other convoluted route).

I still don't quite understand why I am required to touch in the pink reader at Stratford if I touch out at Dalston Kingsland?

As Indigo2 says, there is a via zone 1 journey which could be made, hence the need to touch the pink reader at Stratford. If the single fare finder says you need to touch pink then you must do so or expect the possibility that a higher fare will be charged.

Another question: Hypothetically speaking, if I were to start my journey from Stratford to Hoxton, do I still need to touch in the pink reader? The difference between this hypothetical journey and mine is that arguably this is the most straightforward route to Hoxton from Stratford, whereas you can argue Canning Town to Hoxton via Stratford is not the most straightforward route (but then I did touch out at Dalston Kingsland - didn't that make it "straightforward"??)

Pink readers indicate a via point on a route. If you have just touched in at Stratford then the system already knows that you are there.

 

[euanovsky]

actually what I meant to say was: doesn't that count as two separate journeys? One from Canning Town to Dalston Kingsland and one from Dalston Junction to Hoxton?

 

[island]

There's an OSI between Dalston Kingsland and Junction (and v/v) so if you touch out of one and within 20 minutes touch into the other your journey will be combined.

 

[Be3G]

I would say the most odd aspect to this scenario is that a journey from Canning Town to Dalston Kingsland has only one fare set (so therefore no need to use a pink reader), and it's one that avoids zone 1. Logic would therefore dictate that if the default fare for CGT to DLK avoids zone 1, and the default fare for Dalston Junction to Hoxton avoids zone 1, a journey using an OSI to combine the two would also not charge for zone 1 with no need to worry about pink readers.

This sort of inconsistency actually caught me out once on a similar-ish journey. Fortunately after ending my outward journey I checked my TfL account, seen I'd been overcharged, checked which pink readers were stipulated for the exact journey I was making and used the correct combination of readers on the way back. An unexpected bonus was that as I was using contactless, when I completed the day's travel TfL inferred what I'd meant to do on my outward journey and reduced the price of it to match the return!

 

[MikeWh]

I would say the most odd aspect to this scenario is that a journey from Canning Town to Dalston Kingsland has only one fare set (so therefore no need to use a pink reader), and it's one that avoids zone 1. Logic would therefore dictate that if the default fare for CGT to DLK avoids zone 1, and the default fare for Dalston Junction to Hoxton avoids zone 1, a journey using an OSI to combine the two would also not charge for zone 1 with no need to worry about pink readers.

I can't agree with that logic at all. If you put Canning Town to Canonbury, one station further on from Kingsland, it offers two fares and requires pink at Stratford to confirm avoiding zone 1. Hoxton is on the way to Canonbury via zone 1 so it's entirely logical that both ways should be offered for that too.

 

[Be3G]

I'm not talking about changing the fares offered for the journey though. I'm just saying that using the Dalston OSI should be enough to prove the avoidance of zone 1 for a Canning Town to Hoxton journey, because TfL already assume that the two separate legs of the journey miss zone 1 by default, and as we know OSIs themselves are used as a form of route validation.

 

[PeterC]

It is illogical that an OSI doesn't determine the route taken but the whole concept of alternative routes and pink readers was bolted on to the existing Oyster system.

I would expect the back office processing of contactless cards to have plugged this loophole but I won't be suprised if somebody confirms that this isn't the case.