Information for GTR Southern passengers during strike (no DOO discussion)

[Bishopstone]

The 07.15 replacement bus from Seaford to Lewes this morning was a mini-coach, and had to turn upset punters away at Newhaven Town.

At Lewes I was aiming for the 07.54 to Victoria, but found the carriages of the 07.20 to Victoria still in the platform, having just been emptied. Evidently there was no guard to take the train forward in service, so it left ECS having been cancelled then reinstated then cancelled again. Quite glad I didn't bother rising an hour earlier!

Having taken several GTR trains today, the passenger consensus appears to be that first class is declassified everywhere south of the Thames, which is quite understandable. On that basis, I've traded down my season ticket.

 

[sarahj]

Mainline: First Class declassified, but not on TL trains. Since Gatex's not coming south of Gatwick, not 100% sure on their policy, but think it's the same as Southern.
Coastway. As and when needed. My 5.30 Btn to Sou and back was rather quiet today. Funny thinking your the first west coast train for a few days.

They have given us revised diagrams, which don't have PIS codes, so unless the driver knows the codes. All rather quiet, apart from my own announcements, which only give out whats needed, no more. I noticed most of my train, on the way out, was asleep.

Some odd decisions being made as to whats running, drivers being moved trains for unknown reasons. (there has to be a plan, there must....yes...), and a lot of tail chasing for no reason.

 

[Bishopstone]

Some odd decisions being made as to whats running, drivers being moved trains for unknown reasons. (there has to be a plan, there must....yes...), and a lot of tail chasing for no reason.

Very odd. On M-F the Seaford branch is first to be stopped, but - contrary to the Overtime Ban Timetable v1.0 - at the weekend we seem to have priority over main line services.

During RMT strikes Brighton-Victoria gets a decent peak service (full GatEx), but not during the Overtime Ban Timetable. Vice versa for Victoria-Coastway.

Are they trying to spread the pain, rather than aiming for consistency that would benefit some locations but leave others disadvantaged for several weeks, Monday-Sunday?

 

[Starmill]

The whole thing is so confusing. I guess First Class is declassified on Thameslink only on overtime ban days, because it was declassified according to the website on RMT days but not on Aslef days, but when I was at City Thameslink on an Aslef day they were announcing that all Thameslink First was declassified south of Blackfriars.

 

[Deepgreen]

I suspect they accept then but not publicly admitting it. Either way it is putting pressure on their Dorking services.

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Not very much, as I have been using that route during the strikes and, if anything, for reasons I cannot fathom, the trains are slightly less busy than usual.

 

[Deepgreen]

The whole thing is so confusing. I guess First Class is declassified on Thameslink only on overtime ban days, because it was declassified according to the website on RMT days but not on Aslef days, but when I was at City Thameslink on an Aslef day they were announcing that all Thameslink First was declassified south of Blackfriars.

Not that anyone pays any attention to first these days anyway, but the advice I have seen was that first is declassified on strike days not on days where industrial action short of strikes is occurring. So - the overtime ban days should still see first intact. On the Thameslink trains I have used (700s) on strike days, they haven't bothered to amend the scrolling messages on the supposedly flexible new information system to tell people that first is declassified throughout - however, as this message only flashes up for a few moments among the plethora of other information, and only in the first class sections themselves, it is of little use to anyone.

As I have said, however, the universal ignoring of first these days makes the whole exercise academic. On all the hundreds of journeys I have made on Thameslink over the years, I have never seen a single on-board ticket check. I imagine the chance these days is zero, with no staff employed to do the job. OBSs on Southern are certainly not interested in doing anything, and are almost universally nursing their woes in their cabs.

 

[tsr]

To clarify, as of the time of posting, First is declassified:
- On Southern's Brighton Mainline services, and any others only when publicised by train crew or Control, on ASLEF overtime ban days (ie. until further notice)
- On all GTR services South of Blackfriars/Victoria/London Bridge on RMT conductor strike days
- At the rear of Class 700s (unless this has been contradicted recently!)
- As otherwise specified by GTR staff acting in the course of their duties

No blanket declassification appears to be in place on TL/GX on Southern ASLEF members' overtime ban or strike days.

No detail seems to be given for whether First is automatically declassified at any point when Southern services only run on the BML for part of their journeys. Personally I would give benefit of the doubt for Standard ticket holders in there, partly to avoid confrontation, but be aware views on this will vary amongst staff.

 

[infobleep]

Not very much, as I have been using that route during the strikes and, if anything, for reasons I cannot fathom, the trains are slightly less busy than usual.

Well the other day a train to a Hampton Court was 15 late and South West Trains were advising that due to a Southern strikes trials would be up to 10 minutes late. Now the Hampton Court services also run to and from Dorking.

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[infobleep]

To clarify, as of the time of posting, First is declassified:
- On Southern's Brighton Mainline services, and any others only when publicised by train crew or Control, on ASLEF overtime ban days (ie. until further notice)
- On all GTR services South of Blackfriars/Victoria/London Bridge on RMT conductor strike days
- At the rear of Class 700s (unless this has been contradicted recently!)
- As otherwise specified by GTR staff acting in the course of their duties

No blanket declassification appears to be in place on TL/GX on Southern ASLEF members' overtime ban or strike days.

No detail seems to be given for whether First is automatically declassified at any point when Southern services only run on the BML for part of their journeys. Personally I would give benefit of the doubt for Standard ticket holders in there, partly to avoid confrontation, but be aware views on this will vary amongst staff.

Thanks for that. Makes sense, kind of. So control have published that first class is declassified on Southern on the Brighton Main Line services until further notice as its on the Web Site.

How reduced are the Brighton mainline services compared to the other lines and Gatwick Express?

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[Deepgreen]

Well the other day a train to a Hampton Court was 15 late and South West Trains were advising that due to a Southern strikes trials would be up to 10 minutes late. Now the Hampton Court services also run to and from Dorking.

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Don't understand this statement.

 

[TEW]

Not very much, as I have been using that route during the strikes and, if anything, for reasons I cannot fathom, the trains are slightly less busy than usual.

Today in particular seemed quiet. Performance wise it was on the best peaks SWT have had in a while.

 

[Bishopstone]

On ASLEF strike days the Thameslink BML service - usually riddled with cancellations due to driver shortage - has been very reliable. Where have they found these extra drivers to operate a full service, and will they disappear again when the Southern dispute ends?

 

[Thebaz]

Probably a bit late for checking as I'm about to head to Blackfriars for a southbound to ECR or PUR, but... was it incredibly busy there between 1600 and 1700 yesterday?

 

[Thebaz]

Fears unfounded! Seems pretty empty.

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[bicbasher]

Fortunately with it being a Friday and with only one working Friday left before Christmas, commuters (like me) have taken the day off. I am working on the 23rd though!

 

[maniacmartin]

Probably a bit late for checking as I'm about to head to Blackfriars for a southbound to ECR or PUR, but... was it incredibly busy there between 1600 and 1700 yesterday?

Yes it was. I was on the 1659 London Bridge to Horsham service and it was much busier than usual. Perhaps everyone was trying to leave London early to 'beat the rush'

 

[tsr]

For the information of all concerned with travelling on Thameslink / MML / BML, 1G79 1730 Beckenham Jn - Bedford (a class 700/0, I believe) has failed with power issues whilst heading from Farringdon to St Pancras. Looks like bidirectional working will be needed. St Pancras may not be able to be served by Thameslink heading Northbound to prevent overcrowding.

 

[urpert]

It was crush loading conditions at about 1700 between Canada Water and Sydenham on a West Croydon train, but that might be normal for that time of day - it's not my usual route.

 

[bicbasher]

It was crush loading conditions at about 1700 between Canada Water and Sydenham on a West Croydon train, but that might be normal for that time of day - it's not my usual route.

That's normal sadly. If I have to use the ELL during the evening peak, I try and use Whitechapel instead where there's a better chance of getting a seat or to be sure, Highbury & Islington.

 

[bicbasher]

Reading the local forums, Brockley station had to be closed for a period during the morning peak due to capacity issues.

Apparently LO were feeling the pain this morning with passengers unable to board north of Forest Hill to Canada Water.

 

[infobleep]

Don't understand this statement.

Basically, a train runs to and from Dorking and once back at Waterloo it then runs to and from Hampton Court and then does Dorking again. That's my understanding.

Interestingly said train was only 4 minutes Kate yesterday morning, despite that also being a strike day but being a Friday perhaps more people were off.

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[infobleep]

I wonder why they feel it isn't necessary to have first class declassified on Thameslink and Gatwick Express services when there is an ASLEF strike? Perhaps they expect less people to be travelling than when the conductors are on strike.

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[TEW]

Basically, a train runs to and from Dorking and once back at Waterloo it then runs to and from Hampton Court and then does Dorking again. That's my understanding.

Interestingly said train was only 4 minutes Kate yesterday morning, despite that also being a strike day but being a Friday perhaps more people were off.

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Not quite. A train coming in from Chessington goes to Dorking. A train from Dorking goes to Hampton Court and a train from Hampton Court goes to Guildford via Epsom.

 

[Starmill]

I wonder why they feel it isn't necessary to have first class declassified on Thameslink and Gatwick Express services when there is an ASLEF strike? Perhaps they expect less people to be travelling than when the conductors are on strike.

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As I posted upthread, it was announced as declassified on Aslef days at stations as far as Thameslink goes.

 

[infobleep]

Not quite. A train coming in from Chessington goes to Dorking. A train from Dorking goes to Hampton Court and a train from Hampton Court goes to Guildford via Epsom.

OK. Thanks for that correction. Either way it was late but not so on Friday.

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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As I posted upthread, it was announced as declassified on Aslef days at stations as far as Thameslink goes.

But not on the Web Site confusingly.

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[Bishopstone]

The Southern website says 'a train service will run between Lewes and Seaford' today.

There is engineering work at Newhaven Town, and a bus replacement.

 

[physics34]

The Southern website says 'a train service will run between Lewes and Seaford' today.

There is engineering work at Newhaven Town, and a bus replacement.

the whole franchise is rotten to the core.

 

[Carlisle]

the whole franchise is rotten to the core.

A long way from perfect admittedly, but by now I think it's fairy clear that the chances of any other UK rail franchise faring much better under current strike laws with these plans without backing down Scotrail style were virtually impossible

 

[Sunset route]

A long way from perfect admittedly, but by now I think it's fairy clear that the chances of any other UK rail franchise faring much better under current strike laws with these plans without backing down Scotrail style were virtually impossible

I've got friends who worked on the old Southern franchise and were complaining of being demoralised working for the old GOVIA Southern management up to two years before in got absorbed into the new GTR management contract. They were hoping that there might of been a new change of management that might not of been so hostile and for a better working relationship.

Now looking at the structure of the new TSGN contract that GOVIA won as GTR I can't see any other company doing any better, because this is what the government/DaFT wanted come what may and there is no room for movement within the contact. Having said that GOVIA knew what they were getting themselves into while bidding for the contact and I think they are quite happy bedfellows with DaFT right up to the point where their shareholders start taking a hit. But until then they seem quite happy to do the governments dirty work and the government is quite happy to hide behind the GTR & Southern brand names. Meanwhile the the general press and some specialists press along with the general public not to mention our elecected MPs are totally clueless about what's what and who's pulling the strings.

Since the McNalty report and the government policy of following the bits that it liked there was always going to be a dispute between the rail unions and the government and what better way than to set the agenda than in a contract that you basically control and can bankroll. The only winners will be the government, but the losers will the workers again, but the casualties with be the travelling public.

People will fight for their terms and conditions if they can, because that's what gives you your better work, life relationship. This battle also has the added problem of how many safety critical staff should be on a train and how they share the duties, but that's another story

 

[Carlisle]

Since the McNalty report and the government policy of following the bits that it liked there was always going to be a dispute between the rail unions and the government and what better way than to set the agenda than in a contract that you basically control and can bankroll.

The govt for all it's incompetence and uselessness wasn't seeking this fight, the original plan to begin with was to try and do a quiet deal on FGWs IEPs which fell apart when it became clear neither union was prepared to budge, (they both just hardened their positions still further) , so the attention then turned to Southern using a different strategy altogether