The future of Class 315 units?

[AlanFry1]

With the new Crossrail/Elizabeth Line/TFL rail whatever you want to call them, trains being rolled out in May 2017, not long away now , what is happening to the 315s? Are they to be rolled out on the overcroweded Lea Valley lines until the new 710's are rolled out, sent to the scrap heap or moved elsewhere?

 

[swt class 450]

With the new Crossrail/Elizabeth Line/TFL rail whatever you want to call them, trains being rolled out in May 2017, not long away now , what is happening to the 315s? Are they to be rolled out on the overcroweded Lea Valley lines until the new 710's are rolled out, sent to the scrap heap or moved elsewhere?

I remember hearing something a while ago that Arriva Trains Wales might possibly take them.

 

[NotATrainspott]

I remember hearing something a while ago that Arriva Trains Wales might possibly take them.

They could only do so once the Valley Lines have been wired, which now won't be until the 315s are well and truly past it. If the Valleys are to get cascaded rolling stock there are plenty of newer units which could be chosen instead. Almost certainly now the 315s are headed for the scrapheap.

 

[306024]

GA are getting 317s to strengthen the few remaining 4 car workings on the Lea Valley. Difficult to see a use for 315s other than to replace the 317s on the Enfield / Cheshunt / Chingford lines, but that would only be for a very short time before the new stock arrives there.

Some will be in use until May 2019, which will make them 40 years old by then. They've had a good innings.

 

[swt_passenger]

With the new Crossrail/Elizabeth Line/TFL rail whatever you want to call them, trains being rolled out in May 2017

Class 345 would work just fine...

 

[superkev]

The aluminium bodied 313/4/5 's would, to me, make nice electro diesels with some engine(s) under.
K

 

[D365]

The aluminium bodied 313/4/5 's would, to me, make nice electro diesels with some engine(s) under.

not with what I've heard about the state of the wiring looms and the electrics in general.

 

[47802]

The aluminium bodied 313/4/5 's would, to me, make nice electro diesels with some engine(s) under.
K

good grief not that nonsense again, bad enough with that tube train junk and now possibly 319's.

 

[bramling]

They could only do so once the Valley Lines have been wired, which now won't be until the 315s are well and truly past it. If the Valleys are to get cascaded rolling stock there are plenty of newer units which could be chosen instead. Almost certainly now the 315s are headed for the scrapheap.

Yes I'd say the 321s, or perhaps 317s, are more likely destined for Cardiff - if of course they receive cascaded stock at all.

I would imagine the 315s may be stored for a time, then if no lease deal is forthcoming then probably scrapped.

 

[djpontrack]

I would like to see them sent to Northern, well at least the 5 that I still need to travel on.

 

[43096]

I would imagine the 315s may be stored for a time, then if no lease deal is forthcoming then probably scrapped.

If I was the owning ROSCO I'd cart them straight off for scrap when they come out of service, rather than incurring storage costs.

There's almost no prospect of them being used anywhere else and they're not PRM compliant. In addition, there's plenty of newer stock (including 360s and 379s) that will come off-lease in not too distant future.

 

[AlanFry1]

Class 345 would work just fine...

No need to be nasty. thanks.

 

[MatthewRead]

There was a request in the latest issue of RAIL to use the 315's on the GOBLIN line before the 710's are introduced the trouble is London Overground won't want to have to train their drivers for something that will only last a year.

 

[87015]

There was a request in the latest issue of RAIL to use the 315's on the GOBLIN line before the 710's are introduced the trouble is London Overground won't want to have to train their drivers for something that will only last a year.

Which could have a business case made for. It's been gone through for 319s and 387s but failed for a few reasons. The 315 (and 321) showstopper is the inability of AC-only units to access Willesden for maintenance on the many standard occurrences the WCML slows are closed so access is only available on DC.

 

[306024]

There's almost no prospect of them being used anywhere else and they're not PRM compliant. In addition, there's plenty of newer stock (including 360s and 379s) that will come off-lease in not too distant future.

Looking at the government website, (having googled PRM compliance) it would seem to imply that the work required to make them PRM compliant has been done. What am I not understanding?

 

[physics34]

Nostalgia is a wonderful thing. I still wish EPBs and Thumpers were still running, but the 315s are 40 years old, they will look at things like corrosion and avaliabilty of parts and they will be deemed ready for scrap....unless a lot of money is spent on them.

 

[najaB]

...and they're not PRM compliant.

What work would need to be done to make them PRM compliant?

 

[reddragon]

The 315 is at life end mechanically, electrically & maybe structurally, hence for scrap.

With all the other spare units around all of the 313,314,315,507,508 are for scrap.

That is scrap, not DeMUs, for HS2 or to make 442s dual voltage!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

not with what I've heard about the state of the wiring looms and the electrics in general.

On the whole will the wiring still be the original wiring from when they were built or have they had a major rewire at some point since they were built?

 

[43096]

Looking at the government website, (having googled PRM compliance) it would seem to imply that the work required to make them PRM compliant has been done. What am I not understanding?

Can you link to where you found it? I've taken a look, and can see a document showing what DfT compliance "expectations" are at 01/01/20, but not showing if they are currently compliant.

 

[D365]

On the whole will the wiring still be the original wiring from when they were built or have they had a major rewire at some point since they were built?

No idea but the way in which the units were originally wired has, I believe, been reported as "taking the p*ss".

Little different to other British produce of the 70s then.

 

[306024]

Can you link to where you found it? I've taken a look, and can see a document showing what DfT compliance "expectations" are at 01/01/20, but not showing if they are currently compliant.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/heavy-rail-fleet-eversholt-rail-group-class-315

Its the excel spreadsheet that you have to open, which curiously I can on my I-pad, but not on my laptop.

The 315s did have some corrosion work done at Bombardier Derby while under NXEA stewardship. If I recall a lot of work was needed around the doors. Even today, if they go through the washer at Ilford, they have to be mopped out before entering passenger service, as the water jets at Ilford are too powerful for them.

I'd like the 306s to still be operating, but time moves on. Cardiff Valleys would have been a way of making that scheme cheaper in the short term, but now that isn't an option, dog food tins is the most likely outcome.

 

[najaB]

Its the excel spreadsheet that you have to open.

Looks like it is mainly minor stuff.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There was a request in the latest issue of RAIL to use the 315's on the GOBLIN line before the 710's are introduced the trouble is London Overground won't want to have to train their drivers for something that will only last a year.

That would make a lot of sense as not only does it avoid running diesel under the wires for 100% of the journey, it would also free up some DMUs that would be much needed to increase capacity elsewhere.

 

[AlanFry1]

It'd be interesting to see them on the GOBLIN line, as I can assure you plenty will complain in Feb/March when the line re-opens if the same trains are being used with no immediate extra capacity

 

[Class 170101]

Which could have a business case made for. It's been gone through for 319s and 387s but failed for a few reasons. The 315 (and 321) showstopper is the inability of AC-only units to access Willesden for maintenance on the many standard occurrences the WCML slows are closed so access is only available on DC.

I very much doubt they would be maintained at Willesden for only a year. Ilford would be a better place for maintenance to be carried out. Swaps via Ilford EMUD to be carried out using Euston and Chingford drivers who between them should know the way.

That would make a lot of sense as not only does it avoid running diesel under the wires for 100% of the journey, it would also free up some DMUs that would be much needed to increase capacity elsewhere.

This would be for no more than 12 to 18 months so I don't see corrision as a major issue and I agree would free up much needed DMUs for use elsewhere in the country.

 

[321446]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/heavy-rail-fleet-eversholt-rail-group-class-315

"if they go through the washer at Ilford, they have to be mopped out before entering passenger service, as the water jets at Ilford are too powerful for them"

The cabs do too, but they only need a light drizzle to be a swimming-pool!!

 

[slick]

Some truths mixed with utter rubbish. As somebody who drives them the 315s are in better shape than their age suggests. Don't forget they underwent a full overhaul in 2004. The wiring, pipes, doors (which are now electric) Passenger information displays (which were upgraded a few years ago) motors etc etc are in good shape. The only issue with them as someone has pointed out they leak like crazy in the wet as the 'bodywork' is indeed 40 years old. The rest of the train is fine. Maybe not a up to new standards but fit for puporse elsewhere for a few years yet.

Much better shape than their cousins 317s which havent been touched and regularly give problems, especially motors and thyristor packs..Havent had one with both operational for a good few years, the doors stick just by looking at them, air leaks, motor surges, earth faults, wsp rack failures you name it..They were so bad LO had to withdraw them from service one by one for major work at ilford and wiledsden because they literally were murdering PPM figures. 315s give no issues at all with good acceleration, with the exception of dodgy software on the GSMR radio but thats a totally different issue. Lack of aircon is the only thing that makes them a pig to travel on.

 

[Mikey C]

The PEP stock is in some ways more modern than the Mk3 stock like the 317s

Aluminium, and 2 motored carriages per a 4 car unit, rather than 1.

 

[321446]

As an ex 315 driver, I miss the old XR315i experience! Arm out the window on a sunny day, the acceleration, braking (squeak, squeak, squeak) and reliability for such a Classic train. Bit slidey in the wet, but what unit isn't? All units have bad point if you look for them, my shins had a few impressions made on them by the cab floor rim. As a passenger and driver they are basic, but do what is required. Judging by modern standards they of course fall short of expectations and that may well limit their onward use, but they are good old workhorses, perhaps a new career with Evostick or Copydex beckons tho....