Delays on "LM AND XC ONLY" tickets

[bb21]

I wasn't commenting on a specific route.

In any case, you will likely have LM carrying West Coast's passengers in other situations, especially in some periods when West Coast performed extremely poorly. Singling out one service or one route over one or two periods is not going to give you meaningful conclusions. It will likely all even out over time. If not, the compensation will almost certainly not be calculated on the basis of public fares.

I doubt West Coast will have such a policy refusing to carry LM's passengers should the 0755 be cancelled. Much more likely to be a case of LM not bothering to ask if only one train was cancelled.

 

[All Line Rover]

I doubt West Coast will have such a policy refusing to carry LM's passengers should the 0755 be cancelled. Much more likely to be a case of LM not bothering to ask if only one train was cancelled.

The Trent Valley route is the most applicable when considering VTWC's willingness to accept LM's passengers, due to the fare differentials and the difficulty for LM to reciprocate (unlike between Liverpool and Stafford, or between Crewe and Birmingham).

For the past few months (at least the past year, if I recall correctly), whenever the 07:55 has been cancelled there have been announcements at Crewe station that passengers holding Advance or LM Only walk-up tickets must wait for the 09:02 departure, followed by more announcements by the guard on the 07:57 VT departure that passengers holding Advance tickets for the 07:55 or LM Only walk-up tickets must purchase a new Anytime fare (for £128 single).

I'm used to this, because I travel on the 07:57 regularly (which over the past three months has not just cancelled once, for any reason, and while it has occasionally arrived in London up to two hours late when there are infrastructure problems, at least VT aim to get their passengers to their destination, eventually, on the correct train), whereas the 07:55 has been cancelled three times due to staff shortages (which is better than earlier this year!).

 

[bb21]

The Trent Valley route is the most applicable when considering VTWC's willingness to accept LM's passengers, due to the fare differentials and the difficulty for LM to reciprocate (unlike between Liverpool and Stafford, or between Crewe and Birmingham).

I can tell you there is most likely no such policy.

For the past few months (at least the past year, if I recall correctly), whenever the 07:55 has been cancelled there have been announcements at Crewe station that passengers holding Advance or LM Only walk-up tickets must wait for the 09:02 departure, followed by more announcements by the guard on the 07:57 VT departure that passengers holding Advance tickets for the 07:55 or LM Only walk-up tickets must purchase a new Anytime fare (for £128 single).

As I said, it is more likely that LM never bothered to ask, for cancellation of one service.

I'm not saying your observations are wrong, just that it is unlikely West Coast would be thinking along those lines.

 

[All Line Rover]

As I said, it is more likely that LM never bothered to ask, for cancellation of one service.

I'm not saying your observations are wrong, just that it is unlikely West Coast would be thinking along those lines.

They have accepted "LM passengers" whenever the 16:46 or 17:46 LM departures from Euston have been cancelled, but might LM have been willing to pay VT on these occasions in the realisation that it simply isn't possible to fit one already rammed-train-load of passengers onto another already rammed train on a route that operates an hourly service?

Cancelling the 07:55, or the 09:02, or the 10:02, etc, is an inconvenience and can result in overcrowding, but rarely to the point of passengers being unable to board.

 

[Starmill]

This does seem very daft. LM will have to repay the full price of anyone's Advance ticket for cancelling that train if they do not provide an alternative, and 50% of a return. I find it hard to believe arranging for passengers to have on time arrivals via alternative routes or operators would cost more than that.

 

[bb21]

They have accepted "LM passengers" whenever the 16:46 or 17:46 LM departures from Euston have been cancelled, but might LM have been willing to pay VT on these occasions in the realisation that it simply isn't possible to fit one already rammed-train-load of passengers onto another already rammed train on a route that operates an hourly service?

Cancelling the 07:55, or the 09:02, or the 10:02, etc, is an inconvenience and can result in overcrowding, but rarely to the point of passengers being unable to board.

Certainly possible. Without looking it up, the 0755 sounds to me to be too late for any commuter into London or MKC. The 1646 and 1746 would both be bang in the middle of the afternoon peak.

 

[najaB]

I find it hard to believe arranging for passengers to have on time arrivals via alternative routes or operators would cost more than that.

At a very simplistic level a 100% refund of the cheapest LM-only Crewe to London Advance ticket (£17) is considerably less than the cost of a walkup ticket (£130).

My guess is that they wouldn't pay the full customer-facing price but I'd be surprised if ends up costing them less than £17. Though, since the 0757 VT arrives almost 50 minutes *earlier* than the 0755 LM service at least they would't have to pay any delay repay on top.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They have accepted "LM passengers" whenever the 16:46 or 17:46 LM departures from Euston have been cancelled, but might LM have been willing to pay VT on these occasions in the realisation that it simply isn't possible to fit one already rammed-train-load of passengers onto another already rammed train on a route that operates an hourly service?

Cancelling the 07:55, or the 09:02, or the 10:02, etc, is an inconvenience and can result in overcrowding, but rarely to the point of passengers being unable to board.

It seems more usual for those trains to start at Rugby, presumably with a spare unit and crew from Northampton, and for VT to be used only to there.


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[infobleep]

There is - Northern to Preston/Lancaster then VT, which is what it'd have been by default in the late 1990s except for, what, 2-3 trains per day. Probably what I'd choose until TPE's new stock turns up, as I'm heartily sick of the overcrowding.

But that still involves other TOCs.

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[Bletchleyite]

Oh, sorry, I thought you meant there wasn't an option not to *choose* TPE, not that there wasn't a fallback.

 

[LowLevel]

If you choose a specific operator ticket you should consider the service available if it goes wrong - if you know it's an hourly service and that's a problem then pay out for the flexible ticket.

That being said I've never known ticket acceptance be refused when requested properly here, unless there's disruption on the other route as well.

Also I take the view that I'm in charge of my train and if there's disruption and control haven't said anything, I can choose to take the other passengers regardless - this happens fairly frequently at Liverpool for example when a 319 or similar dies on the Chat Moss and we just hustle their passengers over to our trains off our own backs.

I just don't bother asking their permission and make the decision myself.

 

[CrazyTom]

Well, this thread expanded quickly...
From what I've read, if one books the cheap XC/LM tickets from Derby to Euston (the cheapest being a bargain £9 advance), one takes the risk of having to wait for the next LM train going, and then claim delay repay. This is perfectly fair enough, considering London Midland's perpetual "staff shortages".
As a penniless student, these tickets are great, because basically if the trains are delayed I'm spending even less money for a longer journey, which is what I bought the ticket for in the first place... I will, however, cease to recommend them to family members. Perhaps time to start routing the cheapskakes with Chiltern Trains via Moor Street... (split ticketing Derby-New Street and Moor Street-Maryleborne)