Trivia: most important station without a direct service to London

[IanXC]

Scarborough in the winter must be hovering outside the top 10?

 

[thenorthern]

In terms of importance wouldn't it be somewhere like Bolton, Middlesbrough or Huddersfield, Barnsley, or Mansfield?

Sure none of them have particularly busy stations but given that many other suggestions such as Liverpool Central and Manchester Victoria are busy stations but they are the stations that mostly serve the commuter traffic for the city they serve and most the intercity services use another station such as Liverpool Lime Street or Manchester Piccadilly in these cases respectively. Also in Warrington the busiest station is Warrington Central which by the logic of many posts on here would mean the main station in Warrington is without a direct link to London.

With the towns I mentioned however there are no links to London from any of the stations in the town.

 

[billio]

In terms of importance wouldn't it be somewhere like Bolton, Middlesbrough or Huddersfield, Barnsley, or Mansfield?
....

Not just Bolton, surely it's the whole of North Manchester that's poorly served with services to London - add in Bury, Rochdale, Oldham, Rossendale.

 

[thenorthern]

Not just Bolton, surely it's the whole of North Manchester that's poorly served with services to London - add in Bury, Rochdale, Oldham, Rossendale.

Also Salford as well but the city of Salford has poor rail links overall.

I think Manchester City Center and Stockport are the only areas of Greater Manchester that have direct links to London but Stockport is very well served.

Some other areas though I can think of Walsall, Cannock, Dudley (The town not the district as I am aware of Stourbridge Junction), Barrow-in-Furness, The Wirral, Grimsby Town, Rotherham Central and Gateshead.

With many areas though its just luck such as Preston has regular trains to London as its on the main London to Glasgow line but Blackburn dosen't because its not on any main line.

 

[najaB]

With many areas though its just luck such as Preston has regular trains to London as its on the main London to Glasgow line but Blackburn dosen't because its not on any main line.

As with many of the examples listed, the highlighted phrase should be "...but Blackburn lost its direct London service..." since it used to have services to London.

And there's a quite simple reason: given a typical train that has travelled from London to Wigan are more passengers likely to be going to Blackburn and on to York, or to Preston and on to Glasgow/Edinburgh? It would be a 'waste' of a path on the southern WCML to send the train to Blackburn. Post-HS2 when the WCML is less busy then secondary towns/cities may get direct services.

 

[billio]

As with many of the examples listed, the highlighted phrase should be "...but Blackburn lost its direct London service..." since it used to have services to London.

And there's a quite simple reason: given a typical train that has travelled from London to Wigan are more passengers likely to be going to Blackburn and on to York, or to Preston and on to Glasgow/Edinburgh? It would be a 'waste' of a path on the southern WCML to send the train to Blackburn. Post-HS2 when the WCML is less busy then secondary towns/cities may get direct services.

I don't always agree that everywhere needs a service into London although I might moan about some places that don't have one. What many places need is fast services to, and good connections at places that have a good connection to London. So if Colne, Nelson, Burnley, Accrington, Blackburn and perhaps even Blackpool had a good service and connection at Preston that would be more than adequate than one or two direct trains a day. It would also be a bonus to local and regional travel.

So, in my view, the crazy things about HS2 are that it goes to Euston rather than the south of the river and for example it goes to to the south of Manchester than the north. These are the places that could be "opened up" by faster services.

We have to start thinking about creating a proper network

 

[deltic]

Highbury & Islington and Canada Water - two busiest national rail stations with no direct national rail service to a central London termini?

 

[me123]

Highbury & Islington and Canada Water - two busiest national rail stations with no direct national rail service to a central London termini?

Would you not consider Moorgate to be a Central London Terminus? All NR trains must terminate here, and they all call at Highbury and Islington (admittedly it's the most obscure London Terminus out there - I think it was the only pointless answer on the TV show Pointless when asked about London Termini).

They do, of course, have rather enviable services to central London termini, just not on National Rail (which I presume is why you've very carefully worded your response). H&I has a train up to every 90 seconds going to King's Cross, St Pancras, Euston and Victoria stations. Canada Water has a train up to every 2 minutes running to London Bridge and Waterloo stations. Not a mainline rail service, granted, but going onto the tube gives them rather fantastic links.

 

[Taunton]

So if Colne, Nelson, Burnley, Accrington, Blackburn and perhaps even Blackpool had a good service and connection at Preston that would be more than adequate

Unfortunately the DfT's privatisation model works in the opposite direction. "Good connections" have disappeared because they cannot come up with a reporting strategy that does more than measure each train just at its end point. So if the train from Euston rolls into Preston 10 minutes down, but will get it all back by schedule padding approaching it's terminus further north (when it may well be virtually empty stock), while the train to Colne is merrily sent off just as the connecting passengers are running towards it, that's considered by the DfT to be "job well done" by both operators.

And nothing else, nowadays, matters.

 

[Flying Claret]

Unfortunately the DfT's privatisation model works in the opposite direction. "Good connections" have disappeared because they cannot come up with a reporting strategy that does more than measure each train just at its end point. So if the train from Euston rolls into Preston 10 minutes down, but will get it all back by schedule padding approaching it's terminus further north (when it may well be virtually empty stock), while the train to Colne is merrily sent off just as the connecting passengers are running towards it, that's considered by the DfT to be "job well done" by both operators.

And nothing else, nowadays, matters.

That pretty much sums up 90% of the journies I've had from Accrington to London over the years.

 

[DarloRich]

The most important station without a direct service to London is, personally, Fenny Stratford. I am not sure that is quite what the OP had in mind however............

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Most important station without a through service to London?

Tokyo Shinjuku, passenger usage 3.64 million per-day in 2007.

 

[najaB]

Most important station without a through service to London?

Tokyo Shinjuku, passenger usage 3.64 million per-day in 2007.

I don't know if it meets the criteria set out in the OP:

What is the most important station on the national network without a direct service to London?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I don't know if it meets the criteria set out in the OP:

OP failed to state which national network

 

[najaB]

OP failed to state which national network

There's only one national network that would permit direct services to London.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

There's only one national network that would permit direct services to London.

The French / Belgian networks have direct services...

 

[najaB]

The French / Belgian networks have direct services...

Ah yes, but you still have to travel on the UK national network to get to London and the OP's question was network singular. (You have to get up early to out-pedant me! )

 

[AlanFry1]

Camden Road?

 

[randyrippley]

the two most important British towns without a direct service to London are both country capitals: Belfast and Douglas

 

[najaB]

the two most important British towns without a direct service to London are both country capitals: Belfast and Douglas

Are they 'on the national network' though?

 

[J-2739]

Lucky Huddersfield, getting a direct High Speed Service to London (Let me say that again, HIGH SPEED), while Barnsley hasn't even had a smelly Meridian to take them down to the capital since 2008...:cry:

Maybe our fellow crayonists can help?

 

[TheWalrus]

Exmouth?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

the two most important British towns without a direct service to London are both country capitals: Belfast and Douglas

British?

Lucky Huddersfield, getting a direct High Speed Service to London (Let me say that again, HIGH SPEED), while Barnsley hasn't even had a smelly Meridian to take them down to the capital since 2008...:cry:

Maybe our fellow crayonists can help?

Since 2008... Though Huddersfield hasn't had a London service since the 1960s/70s.

I'd like to see a token service to St. Pancras from Blackburn calling at Burnley Manchester Rd, Hebden Bridge, Huddersfield, Honley (for Holmfirth), Shepley, Penistone, Barnsley, Meadowhall and then running in the path of a Sheffield semi-fast. It'd be slow but scenic and would give several towns a London service!

 

[J-2739]

Since 2008... Though Huddersfield hasn't had a London service since the 1960s/70s.

I'd like to see a token service to St. Pancras from Blackburn calling at Burnley Manchester Rd, Hebden Bridge, Huddersfield, Honley (for Holmfirth), Shepley, Penistone, Barnsley, Meadowhall and then running in the path of a Sheffield semi-fast. It'd be slow but scenic and would give several towns a London service!

That's a very 'Northern' idea!

 

[AlterEgo]

the two most important British towns without a direct service to London are both country capitals: Belfast and Douglas

If I had a penny for every time people got Britain and the UK confused...

Douglas isn't in Britain or the UK.

Neither Northern Ireland nor the Isle of Man are countries. Despite what Wikipedia might say, Northern Ireland is a province of the UK which is often termed a country, and the Isle of Man is a crown dependency.

 

[Starmill]

Is this a bad time for a debate about whether or not Northern Ireland is a country?

 

[Kite159]

Anybody mentioned Paisley Gilmour Street yet?

 

[alholmes]

It always surprises me there isn't at least one token service operated through to Newmarket. It's the same as the Lowestoft argument I guess, as it would need 8/10/12 carriages from Cambridge onwards. Of course nowhere near as important as Manchester Airport or Glasgow Central. Mind you, I suppose Manchester Airport does have direct flights to Heathrow which does provide somewhat of a service to London haha!

In the 1970's there was a Saturday lunchtime DMU service advertised as a through service from Kings Cross to Harwich Town - effectively a Kings X - Cambridge service, which then worked on to Ipswich and then to Harwich.

Don't imagine many people ever did the full journey...

 

[anti-pacer]

Southport must be up there, and Ayr.

St Helen's has two busy stations, neither with a direct service to "That London". Scunthorpe is also a sizeable town with no direct link.

Wigan Wallgate is another one if we're being really picky, although North Western is feet away.

 

[anti-pacer]

Obviously for those born before 1965, Wembley is actually in Middlesex.

...but is now firmly part of London for those of us born after. London Borough of Brent to be precise, and it is served by all usual London transport, TV, utilities and emergency services, as well as the London Assembly and its elected mayor.

Middlesex is a memory and a cricket club.