new northern advance tickets

[lejog]

Because Advance tickets have to be used on the booked train only. I don't believe this is compatible with a frequent urban style network. The opportunity for passengers to catch the wrong train (accidentally or deliberately is huge).

What's the difference in frequency when I make a trip from Hebden Bridge to London between the Hebden Bridge to Manchester leg (3tph) and the Manchester to London leg (3tph)?

I'm not sure how much of Northern's network could be classed as providing a frequent urban service - Manchester to Bolton/Stockport and Leeds to Shipley/Halifax and perhaps a couple more, but I don't think they offer Advances on these relatively short corridors.

 

[Merseysider]

What's the difference in frequency when I make a trip from Hebden Bridge to London between the Hebden Bridge to Manchester leg (3tph) and the Manchester to London leg (3tph)?

One could argue price - it's much more expensive to buy a walk-up ticket to London than between Hebden Bridge and Manchester, so the need for Advance tickets on Virgin is greater.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One could argue price - it's much more expensive to buy a walk-up ticket to London than between Hebden Bridge and Manchester, so the need for Advance tickets on Virgin is greater.

That seems a bit backwards to me - the high walk-up fares are partly *caused* by the presence of lower Advances. I don't want to see that on local services, it's bad enough having it on IC.

 

[TUC]

It breaks the network concept and flexibility that works best for local services.

In what way does it break the network concept?


And in terms of flexibility, if you want to pay the higher any journey fare, you can. That's up to you.
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Because Advance tickets have to be used on the booked train only. I don't believe this is compatible with a frequent urban style network. The opportunity for passengers to catch the wrong train (accidentally or deliberately is huge).

Also Advance fares do not always offer a cheaper deal. Because they're priced as singles they appear cheaper but in many cases they're little cheaper than a walk on return - with far less flexibility.

So you think that, because some passengers may catch the wrong train, we all should pay higher fares than we need to?

Advance fares may or may not offer a cheaper deal. I can work that out for myself, and so can many other passengers using web ticketing sites. We don't need a nanny rail system saying we should pay more just because it's afraid of dotme making mistakes.

 

[Starmill]

I think you have misunderstood the point. This approach tends to lead to higher prices and lower output for everyone in the long term because on-rail competition is meaningless in a franchised system. They are not really building the market for rail travel by charging less for slower trains. There are some short-term benefits but these are very inequitable as its down to chance of franchise maps where passengers have alternative routes. It also misallocates capacity and probably leads to less money available to upgrade routes in the long term.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I think you have misunderstood the point. This approach tends to lead to higher prices and lower output for everyone in the long term because on-rail competition is meaningless in a franchised system.

I don't see how Northern advance tickets have anything to do with on-rail competition, except in the couple of specific places that the Competition Commission identified.

The question is whether cheap advance tickets attract people to the train that wouldn't have otherwise used it. In some cases they do: I travelled on Monday because the ticket was £4 and I wouldn't if I'd had to pay the walk-on fare of £9.60. In other cases they may make no difference.

That seems a bit backwards to me - the high walk-up fares are partly *caused* by the presence of lower Advances.

Nonsense.

The Rail Delivery Group may use cheap(er) Advance tickets to justify high walk-up fares, but that isn't why walk-up fares are so high. It's price-gouging from the members of the Rail Delivery Group, nothing more and nothing less.

 

[northwichcat]

Nonsense.

The Rail Delivery Group may use cheap(er) Advance tickets to justify high walk-up fares, but that isn't why walk-up fares are so high. It's price-gouging from the members of the Rail Delivery Group, nothing more and nothing less.

From my local station fares set by TPE have risen significantly since 2004. While it isn't served by TPE there are no TPE+Connections Advance fares so the fare increases obviously aren't an attempt to encourage people to travel on the quieter services.

 

[spargazer]

I booked 2 tickets in advance from Manchester Picc to Leeds for next friday, the ticket office could not issue tickets from manchester airport to leeds, nor could I reserve a seat, so i have to tram it to the airport or Piccadilly, I used to be able to buy from Sale tram stop but that is history. I live halfway between Sale waterpark tram stop and Sale and the arriva buses 18 and 19 no longer to to the airport.

 

[northwichcat]

I booked 2 tickets in advance from Manchester Picc to Leeds for next friday, the ticket office could not issue tickets from manchester airport to leeds, nor could I reserve a seat, so i have to tram it to the airport or Piccadilly, I used to be able to buy from Sale tram stop but that is history. I live halfway between Sale waterpark tram stop and Sale and the arriva buses 18 and 19 no longer to to the airport.

There are still advance tickets available for Manchester Airport to Leeds. Maybe they were sold out for the services you plan to travel on?

 

[spargazer]

There are still advance tickets available for Manchester Airport to Leeds. Maybe they were sold out for the services you plan to travel on?[/QUI]

I live closer to the airport than Piccadilly, I leave after 0930 and I can use my pensioners pass anyhow. but at least I can get a seat.
There were no advance ones for sale at all MIA - MCP and no reserved seats at all going out, or 1st class! Its the M62 next time.

 

[northwichcat]

I live closer to the airport than Piccadilly, I leave after 0930 and I can use my pensioners pass anyhow. but at least I can get a seat.
There were no advance ones for sale at all MIA - MCP and no reserved seats at all going out, or 1st class! Its the M62 next time.

Piccadilly's code is MAN if that's what you meant.

There are Advance tickets for Airport to Leeds for next Friday available online which are £12-£15.50 for standard class and £17-£20 for first class - but first class seem to be sold out for a couple of services e.g. the 10:33 Airport to Leeds. If the ticket office can't sell you them then I'd suggest buying them from the TPE website in future. Anyway these are TPE Advances which have been available for a long time rather than the new Northern Advances which the topic of this thread is.