Britrail passes

[najaB]

The problem isn't the onward travel as I would have a return from Melbourne, it's the UK passport that I have is no longer any good for buying Britrail passes.

Was your passport issued in the UK? You *might* get somewhere with them if it was issued overseas.
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Seems the rules have changed

from the Visit Britain website...(

On the Britrail website the T&C's say:

Purchase Restrictions: Pass holders must be non-UK residents. BritRail and its representatives may ask at any time for proof of foreign residency and reserve the right to confiscate the ticket or pass in such circumstances. The BritRail ticket is non-transferable and must only be used by the person or persons specified on the ticket.

Sounds like some clarification is needed.

 

[DJ737]

Here is the page link : https://www.visitbritainshop.com/world/britrail-gb-pass/

Naja, all UK passports are now issued from the UK and sent back by courier, at least that was the only option I had when I last renewed a couple of years ago.

 

[najaB]

Here is the page link : https://www.visitbritainshop.com/world/britrail-gb-pass/

You should be able to buy the pass directly from the Britrail website, not sure if the price will be the same.

 

[InFoTan]

On the Britrail website the T&C's say: Pass holders must be non-UK residents. Sounds like some clarification is needed.

Yes, agreed - it's not mentioned anywhere on the conditions for the other companies that issue the Britrail pass, or on the Britrail website

Have to wait and see whether they have really changed the rules.

 

[Iskra]

I'm a British citizen, and have an address both in the U.K. and also one overseas. What's to stop me buying a Britrail pass? If I took a utility bill from my overseas address, would that count as sufficient proof?

 

[najaB]

I'm a British citizen, and have an address both in the U.K. and also one overseas. What's to stop me buying a Britrail pass?

Morality?

If I took a utility bill from my overseas address, would that count as sufficient proof?

Speaking purely hypothetically, yes.

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm a British citizen, and have an address both in the U.K. and also one overseas. What's to stop me buying a Britrail pass? If I took a utility bill from my overseas address, would that count as sufficient proof?

Do you live in any other country than the UK? That's the question.

 

[anme]

Do you live in any other country than the UK? That's the question.

How do you define "live in any other country than the UK"? Or more to the point, how do Britrail define it for the purposes of their T&Cs?

On a practical note, how does a passenger prove that they don't live in the UK when buying the ticket?

 

[AlterEgo]

How do you define "live in any other country than the UK"? Or more to the point, how do Britrail define it for the purposes of their T&Cs?

On a practical note, how does a passenger prove that they don't live in the UK when buying the ticket?

"Anyone who has lived in the United Kingdom for the last six months or more is not entitled to buy a BritRail Pass."

http://www.britrail.com/britrail-passes/eligibility-conditions-of-use/

I have no idea what would, on the ground, constitute acceptable proof of same...

 

[InFoTan]

There are some guidelines here, and it seems that a utility bill from another country would be accepted:

BritRail Product Range 2016.pdf

Have to wait and see if this is updated for 2017.

 

[Flying Snail]

Seems the rules have changed

from the Visit Britain website

Bummer

Visit Britain are re-sellers or marketers only. They do not set the conditions. Unless an official source states that rule (which they have not as far as I can tell) then you should just ignore this.

I would guess that they have just mis-interpreted the rule as Passport country rather than country of residence.

Future Prospects
We are hoping to have the BritRail Pass Range available as Ticket On Departure (TOD) using
Credit Card Sized Tickets (CCST)
TOD is where a customer collects the ticket at the station from Ticket Vending Machines
(TVM’s) using their booking reference.
The tickets will be printed on the standard orange credit card sized tickets that are in use in
Britain today.
There is no fixed date on this being launched but we are anticipating some time during
2016.

That is interesting, Britrail used to be available on CCST stock, I have a vague memory of specially printed stock for a short time in the BR era and more recently until about 5 years ago it was possible to exchange a Britrail voucher at a ticket office for a ticket to be printed on regular stock.

TOD would be very handy and quite a bit cheaper, there are some very steep delivery charges from current providers. The last Britrail I bought the delivery cost £40.

 

[CyrusWuff]

For reference, KnowledgeBase has the following to say on the matter:

Railway staff should check to make sure that the validity of the pass has not expired, that the traveller has proof of non-UK residency and that the date of travel has been filled in.

 

[InFoTan]

TOD would be very handy and quite a bit cheaper, there are some very steep delivery charges from current providers. The last Britrail I bought the delivery cost £40.

This year I was able to pick up the pass at the agent's office in Hong Kong, but previously they have been sent by international courier - which certainly is expensive - and I suppose that's still the only option in many countries.

I suppose the pass would still have to be validated at a ticket office (which is where they always check your passport) so what's the advantage of getting it issued by a machine (rather than just printed in the ticket office)?

Actually, I thought that the current process was deliberately designed to make it more difficult for anyone in the UK to purchase a Britrail pass so I am a little surprised that they are considering this!

 

[Flying Snail]

This year I was able to pick up the pass at the agent's office in Hong Kong, but previously they have been sent by international courier - which certainly is expensive - and I suppose that's still the only option in many countries.

That used to be possible here too until the local Visit Britain tourist office closed, they could print the tickets out themselves there and then. No need to order in advance, very useful.

I suppose the pass would still have to be validated at a ticket office (which is where they always check your passport) so what's the advantage of getting it issued by a machine (rather than just printed in the ticket office)?

No extra validation would be required if it came from a TVM, it would be on standard credit-card size ticket stock printed with start + end dates (and date boxes possibly on a second ticket for flexi-passes) as the machines only have a printer for standard magstripe card stock not the large paper tickets currently used for Britrail.

This is what was available until about 5 years ago if you bought from an agent who didn't issue the tickets themselves, they issued a voucher that needed to be exchanged at a ticket office who printed the Britrail pass on regular stock.

As far as I know this method of issue is currently not used, I don't know of any existing seller that would issue such vouchers and from previous threads I don't believe Britrail issue is possible on current ticket office systems.

The main benefit, for me anyway, would be the easier to carry ticket. There is also the slight chance that it would work ticket barriers but experience of All Line Rovers suggests probably not.

 

[InFoTan]

No extra validation would be required if it came from a TVM, it would be on standard credit-card size ticket stock printed with start + end dates (and date boxes possibly on a second ticket for flexi-passes) as the machines only have a printer for standard magstripe card stock not the large paper tickets currently used for Britrail.

You're right that the start and end dates could be printed on the ticket (assuming that it would start on the day it was printed). But I thought that the validation by the ticket office was one of the controls to try to check the passes were only being used by visitors. Presumably they don't see that as a big problem, and this is more convenient and cheaper.

 

[mouserail]

I just came across Britrail when looking at Rover passes, and I was curious how they're able to refuse sale to British residents whilst still selling to EU residents, when EU rules (for however long the UK remains part of the EU) forbid discrimination between service recipients because of their nationality or where they live?

I understand their reason for doing so (so people don't use it for commuting!), but just wonderfully how they're able to legally justify it?

 

[najaB]

I just came across Britrail when looking at Rover passes, and I was curious how they're able to refuse sale to British residents whilst still selling to EU residents, when EU rules (for however long the UK remains part of the EU) forbid discrimination between service recipients because of their nationality or where they live?

Because the rules around rail passes specifically mean that they aren't valid in the country of residence. The same applies to the French, German, etc. rail passes with French, German, etc. residents.

The EU rules forbid giving residents *better* services than non-residents, they don't place any limits on giving your own citizens worse service than non-residents.

 

[d1672]

Because the rules around rail passes specifically mean that they aren't valid in the country of residence. The same applies to the French, German, etc. rail passes with French, German, etc. residents.

The EU rules forbid giving residents *better* services than non-residents, they don't place any limits on giving your own citizens worse service than non-residents.

Hi,

InterRail tickets now permit 2 Journeys in the country of issue. one to the border one from the border.

Thomas

 

[Deerfold]

Hi,

InterRail tickets now permit 2 Journeys in the country of issue. one to the border one from the border.

Thomas

The all-country version does (and not just to and from the border so it can be used by those flying). The single country ones can still not be used by residents of that country.

 

[DJ737]

Hi there

Just ordered my Britrail pass for this years pub crawl, got it from the Visit Britain website and just ignored the bit about I can't get one if I have a UK passport, the price was (8 days in 1 month) A$529.00 +A$9.50 postage.

Dunno why a UK ticket office can't sell them over the counter as long as you can provide proof of overseas residence. :roll:

Cheers
DJ737

 

[InFoTan]

Hi there
Dunno why a UK ticket office can't sell them over the counter as long as you can provide proof of overseas residence. :roll:

My view is that they don't want to make it too easy.

I don't think that there is any conclusive proof of overseas residence, so it would be tricky for UK ticket offices to verify this. Reminds me of the time that a boss of mine used a driving license to prove his identity in Thailand, and was duly recorded as "Mr Driving License" (in Spanish). So good luck if someone turns up with a document in (for example) Thai or Chinese at a ticket office in Eastleigh.

 

[Deerfold]

My view is that they don't want to make it too easy.

I don't think that there is any conclusive proof of overseas residence, so it would be tricky for UK ticket offices to verify this. Reminds me of the time that a boss of mine used a driving license to prove his identity in Thailand, and was duly recorded as "Mr Driving License" (in Spanish). So good luck if someone turns up with a document in (for example) Thai or Chinese at a ticket office in Eastleigh.

That reminds me of Ireland's worst driver.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7899171.stm

 

[Paul Kelly]

The EU rules forbid giving residents *better* services than non-residents, they don't place any limits on giving your own citizens worse service than non-residents.

That is my understanding too. Hence why Scottish universities can charge expensive variable fees to students from England, Wales and Northern Ireland, as they're part of the same EU member state, but they can't discriminate against students from other EU member states and must give them access to the same reduced standard fees that Scottish students have. But I am far from an expert.

 

[najaB]

That is my understanding too. Hence why Scottish universities can charge expensive variable fees to students from England, Wales and Northern Ireland...

NI is an interesting case as people born there have the option of getting a ROI passport. And then get free tuition as EU nationals.

 

[Gorby]

This thread has been very informative. I'm hoping to come back over later this year, and I travel with both my UK and US passport. Easy to know which one to show when validating.

 

[InFoTan]

I just received an email saying that:

From now on, when you buy a BritRail England Consecutive Pass, you can choose receive a mobile pass that can be downloaded directly to your phone and scanned at any train station. No more waiting in the ticket line or beat up passes to contend with, one quick scan and you're on your way!​

 

[bb21]

and scanned at any train station

Well, that is a lie.

 

[thedbdiboy]

I just received an email saying that:

From now on, when you buy a BritRail England Consecutive Pass, you can choose receive a mobile pass that can be downloaded directly to your phone and scanned at any train station. No more waiting in the ticket line or beat up passes to contend with, one quick scan and you're on your way!​

It's valid as per a paper Britrail pass, but clearly no-ones going to be scanning it at Berney Arms

 

[DJ737]

G'day

Finally received my Britrail Pass this year, as it did not arrive after 4 weeks I made an enquiry with Visit Britain and they sent me a replacement as they assumed it was lost in transit.

The day after the replacement arrived the original turned up in the normal post as opposed to courier, so now I have two 8 in 1 month passes for the price of one.

Cheers
DJ737
Melbourne Australia

 

[bb21]

The one that was lost will have been reported and number registered. Staff will be looking out for it.

I'm sure you won't try and use both, but just want to make sure that others are aware of it.