Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[GRALISTAIR]

Make of this what you will!

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...o-hold-public-information-event-in-crossgates

I make of it that Leeds- Selby sparks is going ahead .Selby - Hull is not.

 

[IanXC]

I make of it that Leeds- Selby sparks is going ahead .Selby - Hull is not.

Indeed, however it suggests works are about to begin, and that the rumoured concentration on the East end of the TP North scheme seems to be correct.

Am I right in thinking there are no published dates etc for this scheme?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Indeed, however it suggests works are about to begin, and that the rumoured concentration on the East end of the TP North scheme seems to be correct.

Am I right in thinking there are no published dates etc for this scheme?

All I can see is Hendy Page 57-64 and it just says indicative. Perhaps there has been so much embarrassment they have stopped giving firm dates. What I like about starting in the east is - it make sense. When/if it gets done it is standalone but also you then only have the much shorter bit of Micklefield to -ECML to do and that at least is Leeds -York done. Diversionary route and also new journey opportunities- Leeds- Edinburgh and Glasgow all electric.

You just have to figure Manchester -Staly will get done sooner rather than later - so progress even if slower than we may like.

 

[snowball]

Possibly it's just routine vegetation removal works and the reference to electrification is thrown in as a bonus.

There was a similar press release the previous week about an already-electrified area:

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...rmation-event-in-dringhouses-and-copmanthorpe

 

[Spod]

The letter sent out to local residents mentions the following (bolding is theirs):

To enable electrification of the railway - which will mean quieter, cleaner and greener trains - Network Rail will be removing vegetation from 6.5 meters either side of the tracks (from big trees to small bushes) to allow safe clearance for the gantries and wires. This will also include removing trees which are within striking distance of the railway should they fall.

They go on to talk about green palisade fencing, ecological sureying, and the vegetation removal running from now to March 2017.
I showed up to the event, but it was purely focused on plants and fences, there wasn't really any extra information beyond the above that's not already common knowledge on this forum. Plans for what tracks will go where are still 12 months away.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

They go on to talk about green palisade fencing, ecological sureying, and the vegetation removal running from now to March 2017.
I showed up to the event, but it was purely focused on plants and fences, there wasn't really any extra information beyond the above that's not already common knowledge on this forum. Plans for what tracks will go where are still 12 months away.

But was that event intended to keep local residents informed on how the type of fencing and vegetation removal of all types would be so effected, rather than to concentrate upon matters that, as you say are common knowledge on this website, but not common knowledge amongst local residents.

 

[Spod]

Well, yes. They were going to remove vegetation and replace fences, so they were obliged to consult on that. Any other information was a bonus. All they could say was that they have a service specification to achieve, and were modelling what they could do given various options for the underlying infrastructure, and would present the DfT with what they felt was the best value proposition that met the requirements, in about 12 months.
The one thing this does (seem to) indicate is that they're confident they won't be four tracking through the area (yet), or they'd need to remove a fair bit more than 6.5 m of vegetation either side of the existing tracks.
EDIT: confirmed the required clearance is at least 5m, so four tracking would need that plus room for the extra tracks and gaps - 20 feet (2x 4-foot, 2x 6-foot)? Anyway, such a widening would also mean earthworks, and there's no point just clearing soil you're planning to remove or bury.

 

[edwin_m]

Maybe they are removing the vegetation now so they can do surveys that will tell them where the OLE will go at some later time?

They also can't do this kind of work during nesting season so if they delay too long they will lose several months more.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Indeed, however it suggests works are about to begin, and that the rumoured concentration on the East end of the TP North scheme seems to be correct.
Am I right in thinking there are no published dates etc for this scheme?

I remember the loose talk about "quick wins" and finishing York-Leeds by, er...now.
I suspect they are back at the drawing board with the design of the central section (realignment, tunnels etc).

 

[Class 170101]

Indeed, however it suggests works are about to begin, and that the rumoured concentration on the East end of the TP North scheme seems to be correct.

Am I right in thinking there are no published dates etc for this scheme?

Does the triangle that is Leeds, York and Hambleton plus the ECML to Selby require a new feeding station or can it be fed from the existing sites elsewhere?

 

[snowball]

Don't know but there's a feeder station near Leeds at East Ardsley on the Wakefield line. Without knowing any details I imagine it probably has spare capacity.

For comparison, Manchester has more electrified lines but no very nearby feeder. The proposed one at Stalybridge is not as near to Manchester as EA is to Leeds.

 

[IanXC]

Don't know but there's a feeder station near Leeds at East Ardsley on the Wakefield line. Without knowing any details I imagine it probably has spare capacity.

For comparison, Manchester has more electrified lines but no very nearby feeder. The proposed one at Stalybridge is not as near to Manchester as EA is to Leeds.

I seem to recall reading that a connection at Hambelton improves the resilience of supply at Leeds and York if that casts any light for anyone?

 

[edwin_m]

I seem to recall reading that a connection at Hambelton improves the resilience of supply at Leeds and York if that casts any light for anyone?

Probably means that the feeder near Leeds could feed through the new connection to the York area and vice versa, so giving extra options to keep the power on if a feeder or its grid supply are unavailable.

 

[deltic08]

Probably means that the feeder near Leeds could feed through the new connection to the York area and vice versa, so giving extra options to keep the power on if a feeder or its grid supply are unavailable.

The one at Armley has spare capacity.

 

[swt_passenger]

All I can see is Hendy Page 57-64 and it just says indicative.

Is it quite correct to quote the Hendy report (Jan 2016) now though?

There have been two subsequent updates to the overall enhancement plans, which often contain different information - some of the TP Route sub projects were amended in Jun 2016, as shown in the September update...

 

[snowball]

Re the above discussion on feeder stations, it says on page 57 that there will be a new one east of Leeds.

And on page 63 it says it will be at Gascoigne Wood.

The OS 1:50k map does not show any grid power line at Gascoigne Wood, but it does show one a couple of miles away at Hambleton Junction. Any feeder station there would be able to have independent connections to the ECML and the Leeds-Selby line.

 

[snowball]

According to January's Modern Railways, page 16, the latest delays to the Manchester-Stalybridge electrification relate to "the discovery that additional work nees to be done to the existing formation to enable the overhead stanchions to be installed and that access to the route is particularly challenging as it is used by a significant number of overnight freight services."

It says that senior managers at Northern and TP reacted strongly to the suggestion that the re-phasing was done with their agreement. Perhaps it's referring to the words in the letter from Paonessa in last month's MR that I mentioned here:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2786485#post2786485

It also discusses the issue of the electrical feeding of Manchester-Preston if the wires are not in place to Stalybridge. It says it will then be dependent on the existing feeder at Weaver Junction and will stretch it to the limit. I don't know why doesn't it mention the feeder near Newton-le-Willows.

 

[edwin_m]

The post below says there is no longer a feeder at Newton-le-Willows.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2773621&postcount=1750

 

[snowball]

The post below says there is no longer a feeder at Newton-le-Willows.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2773621&postcount=1750

That says that Parkside has been replaced by Willow Park, but aren't both near Newton-le-Willows?
Isn't Willow Park located to feed both WCML and Liverpool-Manchester?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That says that Parkside has been replaced by Willow Park, but aren't both near Newton-le-Willows?
Isn't Willow Park located to feed both WCML and Liverpool-Manchester?

My understanding is that:
- the switchgear site for the original WCML feeder was on the south side of the L&M east of Newton le Willows station, above the WCML.
- the new switchgear now sits on the opposite side of the line (where the Motorail terminal was) and this I believe is Willow Park.
- the stuff on the south side was also enhanced
- the grid feed itself is on the east side of the M6, and new cabling runs on the south side of the L&M under the M6 bridge to the feed point, which is adjacent to the Parkside triangle.

New switchgear has also been installed at Springs Branch (and at Edge Hill), and I think more is going in at Euxton Jn, but it's difficult to know if this is for the WCML AT project or for the new electrified routes.

All this overnight freight between Victoria and Stalybridge is a little odd.
For a random weeknight in January, RTT shows several paths for Liverpool-Drax trains, a couple from Peak Forest to Hope St (Salford), and also Doncaster-Brindle Heath (Agecroft).
There's no obvious reason why these could not be diverted via other routes (Calder Valley, Oxford Road, Chat Moss, Copy Pit).
The Hope St trains would probably be the most awkward to re-route, as they need to come in from the Victoria direction.

I can't think what formation changes are needed, unless they are trying to improve the alignment through, say, Ashton.

 

[Senex]

I can't think what formation changes are needed, unless they are trying to improve the alignment through, say, Ashton.

Wasn't one of the reasons for delaying work on the electrification of the Diggle route that NR had been aiming to do nothing but electrify and then with government and TOC pressure there was a decision to include some infrastructure improvements? If so, how many of these might be between Miles Platting and Stalybridge -- a particularly slow section? Ashton would certainly be one location, but there's also the restricted curve at Droylesden and the dreadful approach to Stalybridge (where you curve left coming from Ashton and point straight into the original L&Y station before taking the dog's-leg into the junction with the GC/LNW lines. But would anything be likely to be done there so soon after the signalling work of a couple of years ago? Does anyone know yet what infrastructure improvements are being considered for the Manchester to Leeds line, or does it all still hang on HS3 decisions?

 

[Elecman]

Yes Parkside (old feeder) and Willow Park are located on opposite sides of the WCML near Newton Le Willows. The switchgear installed at Springs Branch/Euxton Jct/Edge Hill plus Coppull are indeed AT sites for the west coast power supply upgrade

 

[Elecman]

Between Willow Park and the upgraded feeder at Catterall there should be sufficient power for Manchester- Euxton and Fylde Jct to Blackpool schemes

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Between Willow Park and the upgraded feeder at Catterall there should be sufficient power for Manchester- Euxton and Fylde Jct to Blackpool schemes

I had forgotten about Catterall but I also thought the primary driver for its upgrade was AT from Springs to Great Strickland ?

 

[Elecman]

It is an AT upgrade

 

[Geeves]

Noticed plenty of scrapes and markers around Ashton Under Lyne station while I was working there today. I don't think it should be long before we some real movement now!

 

[QueensCurve]

That says that Parkside has been replaced by Willow Park, but aren't both near Newton-le-Willows?
Isn't Willow Park located to feed both WCML and Liverpool-Manchester?

Certainly Parkside/Newton Le W seems a sensible place to fee both routes. It also seems like a more direct supply than from Weaver Junction.

It would be interesting to understand why Weaver Junction is the supply point.

 

[QueensCurve]

I had forgotten about Catterall but I also thought the primary driver for its upgrade was AT from Springs to Great Strickland ?

Again, Catteral would seem a more direct feed for Euxton to Manchester.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Just noticed on WN Sparks website a closure/blockade Man Victoria - Stalybridge July 8th - July 30th - I assume it would be to a certain degree electrification related though other stuff would one assumes get done too.

http://nw-sparks.co.uk/works.php?id=443

 

[Spod]

Had another letter from Network Rail about bridge coring the first week in May in the Garforth area. They're getting on with the stuff they would need to do anyway regardless of what the final plan looks like.