York to Newcastle TPE ONLY ticket

[ys123]

I found out recently that there is cheaper ticket from York to Newcastle if one sticks to TPE trains. I travel often from Manchester to Newcastle and usually split tickets at York (although recently found that for
tickets bought on the day it's cheaper to split at Darlington whereas advance tickets are cheaper to split at York). I usually take tpe direct from Manchester to Newcastle so using tpe from York to Newcastle is something I do anyway. I was wondering is this York to Newcastle TPE ONLY ticket a new thing or have I been missing out for a while?

I have a Railcard so manchester to Newcastle is 49, splitting at York is 46, splitting at Darlington is 43 but splitting at York and getting this tpe only ticket brings it down to 35! (without a Railcard it brings it down from 77 to 53).

There is also a bigger chance for compensation as currently if one misses the direct train from manchester to newcastle one is told to change at stalybridge and York and arrive 25mins late. In this case one is unable to take the train from York as it's Crosscountry and therefore one will generally arrive 60mins late...

 

[BrianTheLion]

I found out recently that there is cheaper ticket from York to Newcastle if one sticks to TPE trains. I travel often from Manchester to Newcastle and usually split tickets at York (although recently found that for
tickets bought on the day it's cheaper to split at Darlington whereas advance tickets are cheaper to split at York). I usually take tpe direct from Manchester to Newcastle so using tpe from York to Newcastle is something I do anyway. I was wondering is this York to Newcastle TPE ONLY ticket a new thing or have I been missing out for a while?

I have a Railcard so manchester to Newcastle is 49, splitting at York is 46, splitting at Darlington is 43 but splitting at York and getting this tpe only ticket brings it down to 35! (without a Railcard it brings it down from 77 to 53).

There is also a bigger chance for compensation as currently if one misses the direct train from manchester to newcastle one is told to change at stalybridge and York and arrive 25mins late. In this case one is unable to take the train from York as it's Crosscountry and therefore one will generally arrive 60mins late...

It's the same up in Scotland too. Glasgow to Edinburgh Anytime Single is £13.60 on Scotrail and only £8.50 if you use CrossCountry only tickets. The XC fare used to be as low as £2.00 a few years ago whilst the Scotrail one was around a tenner.

Your findings sum up just how unnecessarily complex the British Fare system is. I'd hate to be a foreigner travelling here. Imagine how much you would get ripped off without the necessary knowledge?

 

[Hadders]

Your findings sum up just how unnecessarily complex the British Fare system is. I'd hate to be a foreigner travelling here. Imagine how much you would get ripped off without the necessary knowledge?

How would you fix it?

Be careful what you wish for as if TOC specific tickets were removed then prices would increase as the only alternative would be the Any Permitted fare.

 

[gray1404]

Exactly!

 

[yorksrob]

Is this an open ticket or AP ?

 

[Segedunum]

I do believe that the TPE only open tickets are a temporary promotion. Brfares has them down as this, anyway.

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

 

[Wallsendmag]

Is this an open ticket or AP ?

Off Peak Return, although for some reason they have an Off Peak Day Return routed TPE Only at the same price as the Any Permitted fare.

 

[cuccir]

According to this fourm post they've been in place since late October - no idea how much longer they're about for!

 

[Segedunum]

Off Peak Return, although for some reason they have an Off Peak Day Return routed TPE Only at the same price as the Amy Permitted fare.

I do believe that it was intended to go with the Half Term offer of Kids going for £1 with TPE when travelling with an adult. That promotion has since ended.

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

 

[cuccir]

The VTEC website will sell these for journeys until Saturday 10th December only but not beyond, so they are pretty much gone already!

 

[ys123]

Can someone explain why TPE would stop selling this TPE only ticket based on the following calculation I made?
When people buy off peak return from York to Newcastle at £37.70, TPE would get a fifth of that amount as they run one out of the five hourly services between York and Newcastle. So they get about £7.50 of every ticket sold. If they were to continue selling the £25 TPE only tickets they'll get the full £25 of those tickets plus they would still get £7.50 of all £37.70 tickets sold. So they can't lose and will probably gain as I can see people waiting for the TPE train and saving £12.70 (people who were anyway planning to travel on TPE will buy this ticket aswell). Have I missed something?

 

[shredder1]

I found out recently that there is cheaper ticket from York to Newcastle if one sticks to TPE trains. I travel often from Manchester to Newcastle and usually split tickets at York (although recently found that for
tickets bought on the day it's cheaper to split at Darlington whereas advance tickets are cheaper to split at York). I usually take tpe direct from Manchester to Newcastle so using tpe from York to Newcastle is something I do anyway. I was wondering is this York to Newcastle TPE ONLY ticket a new thing or have I been missing out for a while?

I have a Railcard so manchester to Newcastle is 49, splitting at York is 46, splitting at Darlington is 43 but splitting at York and getting this tpe only ticket brings it down to 35! (without a Railcard it brings it down from 77 to 53).

There is also a bigger chance for compensation as currently if one misses the direct train from manchester to newcastle one is told to change at stalybridge and York and arrive 25mins late. In this case one is unable to take the train from York as it's Crosscountry and therefore one will generally arrive 60mins late...

Not sure how old you are but the Club 55 offer is on at present, it cost me £15 the other week from Manchester to Newcastle, outside the Club 55 I normally split at Northallerton.

 

[ys123]

Not sure how old you are but the Club 55 offer is on at present, it cost me £15 the other week from Manchester to Newcastle, outside the Club 55 I normally split at Northallerton.

I believe the Club 55 offer expired on 20/11 (correct me if I'm wrong but I got this info from national rail) and I currently use a 16-25 railcard so they'd have to keep the offer on for over 30yrs in order for me to take advantage of it. Currently they do offer 50% off instead of the usual 33% if I book tpe advance with a 16-25 Railcard so I sometimes pick up £7.50 tickets each way. With regards to you spitting your tickets at Northallerton, it would cost £68.20 whereas splitting at Darlington is cheaper at £65.80. And I believe not all trains stop at northallerton so you'll have more options and save more by splitting at Darlington.

 

[sheff1]

I'd hate to be a foreigner travelling here. Imagine how much you would get ripped off without the necessary knowledge?

Before I go to other countries I research the local ticketing arrangements to the degree I feel appropriate taking into the amount of travelling intend to do. If I miss some well hidden fares on a one off visit because I have not dug deeply enough, I would not feel ripped off as I would probably never know about them. If I did happen to spot some sort of money saving option when there I would just make a note of it for future reference.

 

[yorkie]

Can someone explain why TPE would stop selling this TPE only ticket based on the following calculation I made?
When people buy off peak return from York to Newcastle at £37.70, TPE would get a fifth of that amount as they run one out of the five hourly services between York and Newcastle. So they get about £7.50 of every ticket sold. If they were to continue selling the £25 TPE only tickets they'll get the full £25 of those tickets plus they would still get £7.50 of all £37.70 tickets sold. So they can't lose and will probably gain as I can see people waiting for the TPE train and saving £12.70 (people who were anyway planning to travel on TPE will buy this ticket aswell). Have I missed something?

There is no sane reason, so maybe VTEC/XC are objecting? If so, how can they put a stop to these fares, given they can't put a stop to Peterborough-London GTR only fares?

I recall TPE didn't like XC having their own fares from York to Newcastle. I'm not sure why XC withdrew them. Did TPE/VTEC manage to get them stopped? If so, I see no justification. Or was there collusion? Surely not? Either way, I am suspicious that something underhand has gone on.

I'm all for it; the Any Permitted SVR is a ludicrous £45.90, so a price of £25 for TPE only is reasonable.

As the cost of more flexible tickets continues to rise beyond reasonable means, the only solution to get cheaper fares is for there to be more alternatives, such as these TPE Only fares. That isn't going to make fares simpler, but anyone who wants fewer fares is not going to convince anyone to reduce the price of the more expensive tickets, so I think we just have to accept that a greater choice of fares is better for most of us.

Where I would agree with people who complain about complexity, is that the cheaper fares should be excessable into the more expensive fares (if necessary, add an appropriate fee as a deterrent)

 

[ys123]

I recall TPE didn't like XC having their own fares from York to Newcastle. I'm not sure why XC withdrew them. Did TPE/VTEC manage to get them stopped? If so, I see no justification. Or was there collusion? Surely not? Either way, I am suspicious that something underhand has gone on.

XC probably withdrew them as they sell advance tickets that one can buy upto 15mins before boarding

 

[Segedunum]

I can remember the XC Only fares fondly, as an Anytime return from Newcastle to Glasgow was something like £30 in 2011.

However I don't believe that the XC Anytime return from Newcastle to York was any cheaper than the Any Permitted Off Peak Return, giving it a somewhat limited potential. (essentially the 0625/0645/0725/0741/0835 and 0843 departures on a weekday)

I'd personally love to see the TPE fares stay, especially as the service levels continue to increase and we gain earlier services along with, eventually, better trains.


Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

 

[yorksrob]

Off Peak Return, although for some reason they have an Off Peak Day Return routed TPE Only at the same price as the Any Permitted fare.

Cheers for the info !
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The VTEC website will sell these for journeys until Saturday 10th December only but not beyond, so they are pretty much gone already!

Thought it sounded too good to be true. Heaven forfend that they come up with a long term product that actually appeals to passengers !

 

[Wallsendmag]

I wouldn't put any faith in that end date it may be on for a while yet


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Starmill]

This debate is very confusing. It was a non-permanent fare so it should not be surprising that its promotional period has ended.

 

[ys123]

This debate is very confusing. It was a non-permanent fare so it should not be surprising that its promotional period has ended.

The debate is why it's only a promotional fare as they won't lose and will most likely gain (as explained above) by keeping this fare for the foreseeable future.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Ah but has it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[ys123]

Ah but has it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

To the best of my knowledge it wasn't advertised much.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I'd hold your horses on that one


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Starmill]

The debate is why it's only a promotional fare as they won't lose and will most likely gain (as explained above) by keeping this fare for the foreseeable future.

Well the short answer is because it was their prerogative to run a promotion with a fixed end date.

There are a variety of things to consider. They could offer all ticket types at 50% off the Any Permitted fares - but what would the consequences be? What would loadings be like? Would complaints from customers having to stand rise? Would they run out of reservations to sell their own Advance tickets in? What about people going to Leeds, Manchester or Liverpool? No lower fares there creates a re-booking anomaly that people might take advantage of. How does it fit in with the broader (non-rail) market? What about the risk of retaliation? Worse, have people bought them from TVMs and just boarded the first available train because they do not make it particularly clear, thereby being charged and complaining?

The solution is for the Government to regulate the market for all rail travel and insist on a cheaper inter-available, flexible fare. I'm increasingly convinced that this is the only solution to shockingly poor value for money fares - and that it is exceedingly unlikely to happen.

 

[TUC]

Your findings sum up just how unnecessarily complex the British Fare system is. I'd hate to be a foreigner travelling here. Imagine how much you would get ripped off without the necessary knowledge?

Given that a simple search on rail ticketing websites (excluding the Virgin issue mentioned above) will show up the cheapest fares, what the problem?

 

[ys123]

I'd hold your horses on that one


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I don't recall seeing it on TPE's website special offer section. And I check it every 2 wks

 

[yorkie]

Given that a simple search on rail ticketing websites (excluding the Virgin issue mentioned above) will show up the cheapest fares, what the problem?

TPE's website does not show the cheapest fares, if the special offer fares are more expensive than a normal walk-up ticket, as I found out last week.

 

[ys123]

I wouldn't put any faith in that end date it may be on for a while yet


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Correct. It's still showing as available for February travel.