Passing Stations With No Notice

[edwin_m]

That would both be unenforceable and unkind to those people that must wear them for medical purposes

Also any deaf people would be unable to hear the PA anyway. Non-stopping with just an announcement is therefore discriminatory - it needs a visual message on the PIS too but I've never seen that happen.

 

[wingsoveryorks]

1) Driver failing to stop. (Unlikely)

2) Scotrail control ordering the stops to be missed to catch up on time (Very likely)

3) Was there a guard to make announcements? (Have a word about this with Angie Doll, the southern babe)

4) Was the train allowed into service with a faulty PA against the rule book. ( Only fools blindly follow rules, TOC's break them at their leisure)

My money is on the driver being given instructions to skip the stops to catch up. Do passengers matter? Don't make me laugh.

 

[matt_world2004]

I was travelling through warren street once when the driver announced that due to a fire alert no one was to get off at warren street station , however the audio was so bad no one could here what he had said. , The driver opened the doors to pick up passengers and people of course got off.

 

[PHILIPE]

It was advertised to stop

Of course it was but I'm trying to establish the reason why for you. Can you tell me if the train was running late, which train it was and the date.

 

[wingsoveryorks]

I was travelling through warren street once when the driver announced that due to a fire alert no one was to get off at warren street station , however the audio was so bad no one could here what he had said. , The driver opened the doors to pick up passengers and people of course got off.

Bit of a fool that driver wasn't he. A few lessons in human behaviour would come in handy.

I once watched a clip where they set up a smoke machine in the entrance to a supermarket to see what people did. Despite the smoke pouring out of the doors, people were still going in with their trolleys.

 

[PHILIPE]

Exactly. Which is why the excuse of "announcements" can never be a valid one.

The practice of station skipping should be outlawed. In Scotrail's case by the real "owners" the Scottish Government. Scotrail are in the end merely contractors operating a Nationalised Rail service.

If the practice of skipping stations was to be outlawed you would, especially on a route with a high frequency service, finish up with trains all over the place or even cancelled for the rest of the day.

 

[wingsoveryorks]

A train can be authorised to run non stop if it is as little as 15 minutes late. It all comes down to contingency planning between the TOC and Networkrail. You can depart with the intention of stopping, but instructions can be given at any time via the GSMR system.

You are only a passenger, don't think you are exempt from the money grabbing ways of the railway TOC's.

 

[matt_world2004]

Bit of a fool that driver wasn't he. A few lessons in human behaviour would come in handy.

I once watched a clip where they set up a smoke machine in the entrance to a supermarket to see what people did. Despite the smoke pouring out of the doors, people were still going in with their trolleys.

It looked like the driver was following some sort of tfl procedure I guess the priority is to get people off the platform

 

[bb21]

Exactly. Which is why the excuse of "announcements" can never be a valid one.

The practice of station skipping should be outlawed. In Scotrail's case by the real "owners" the Scottish Government. Scotrail are in the end merely contractors operating a Nationalised Rail service.

Congratulations, you have just cut the end of the route completely off any service in times of disruption as trains now have to turn around short of destination to recover services.

Please think about the implications of what you are suggesting first.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It looked like the driver was following some sort of tfl procedure I guess the priority is to get people off the platform

But human behaviour does seem to dictate that the best course of action, if the priority were to get people out of that station and prevent anyone entering, is to empty the train at the previous stop, run empty to Warren Street, pick up all passengers there and take them to the next stop.

With passengers on the train, no amount of announcements will ensure that no one gets off.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You are only a passenger, don't think you are exempt from the money grabbing ways of the railway TOC's.

Aren't you a cynical one?

 

[najaB]

But human behaviour does seem to dictate that the best course of action, if the priority were to get people out of that station and prevent anyone entering, is to empty the train at the previous stop, run empty to Warren Street, pick up all passengers there and take them to the next stop.

That, of course, depends on when he got the message from Control.

 

[bb21]

Seeing that they were happy to run the risk of passengers missing the announcement, getting off and then time had to be spent trying to get them back on again, not so urgent.

So if the first train was too late to tip out at the previous station, run it fast through Warren Street, and the next one can be requested to do as I outlined above, running fast to the previous stop to tip people out if necessary to minimise delay.

 

[edwin_m]

That, of course, depends on when he got the message from Control.

And how urgent it was to remove passengers from Warren Street, whether Control had that information at the time, and how long it would take to persuade everyone to leave the train at the previous station.

 

[LAX54]

so...did we ascertain which train and what day ? easy to check then

 

[PHILIPE]

so...did we ascertain which train and what day ? easy to check then

I've already asked that twice but the OP has gone quiet so could be suspicious, perhaps embrassed. There was the original post and then an early one saying that the train was booked to stop which seems irrelevant to the discussion. Wondering if the silence will be broken !!!

 

[kylemore]

If the practice of skipping stations was to be outlawed you would, especially on a route with a high frequency service, finish up with trains all over the place or even cancelled for the rest of the day.

Or force the operator to ease turnround times and maintain spare staff and rolling stock as used to be the case.

 

[PHILIPE]

Or force the operator to ease turnround times and maintain spare staff and rolling stock as used to be the case.

I doubt it. Simple answer - would cost money

 

[221129]

Or force the operator to ease turnround times and maintain spare staff and rolling stock as used to be the case.

And which services would you then cancel to provide these longer turn around times? And where would the extra stock come from? And I take it that the passengers/tax payers will be paying for it?

 

[kylemore]

And which services would you then cancel to provide these longer turn around times? And where would the extra stock come from? And I take it that the passengers/tax payers will be paying for it?

Ok why not go the full hog and make all turnround times 1 minute and issue all guards and drivers with Nike trainers so they can sprint from one end of the train to other in 30 seconds!

My argument is that the cost cutting and money grubbing by privatised operators which has resulted in long term decline in the UK bus industry is now infecting the rail industry.

Employ more staff, build more trains, yeh it'll cost more - so what?

People taken off the dole to work on the railway will pay taxes and buy stuff rather than receiving hand-outs, passengers will be more attracted to a reliable service rather than an "efficient" one because even with dodges such as station skipping a rail operation cut to the bone in order to money grub will be inherently unreliable.

 

[TEW]

Ok why not go the full hog and make all turnround times 1 minute and issue all guards and drivers with Nike trainers so they can sprint from one end of the train to other in 30 seconds!

My argument is that the cost cutting and money grubbing by privatised operators which has resulted in long term decline in the UK bus industry is now infecting the rail industry.

Employ more staff, build more trains, yeh it'll cost more - so what?

People taken off the dole to work on the railway will pay taxes and buy stuff rather than receiving hand-outs, passengers will be more attracted to a reliable service rather than an "efficient" one because even with dodges such as station skipping a rail operation cut to the bone in order to money grub will be inherently unreliable.

OK why not go the full hog and ditch turnarounds altogether? Just make each train and each crew do 1 trip a day and crew and rolling stock would never be an issue again.

 

[Llanigraham]

OK why not go the full hog and ditch turnarounds altogether? Just make each train and each crew do 1 trip a day and crew and rolling stock would never be an issue again.

Not sure whether you are being sarcastic or not.
Do you realise how short some turns are?

 

[bb21]

Not sure whether you are being sarcastic or not.
Do you realise how short some turns are?

I suspect the former, given his job.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Ok why not ...

It's all well and good, and ideally I would like that too, if I lived in a perfect world.

Now you can try and convince the government to put money into it. Money has to come from somewhere, and it won't be the TOCs.

 

[TEW]

Not sure whether you are being sarcastic or not.
Do you realise how short some turns are?

Yes, it was sarcastic! I realise just how complicated it all is. It's not just as easy as banning TOCs from cutting out stops. If you make the turnarounds too short, the timetable isn't resilient enough and delays snowball. Too long and you'll be criticised for inefficiency.

 

[mbreckers]

Yes, it was sarcastic! I realise just how complicated it all is. It's not just as easy as banning TOCs from cutting out stops. If you make the turnarounds too short, the timetable isn't resilient enough and delays snowball. Too long and you'll be criticised for inefficiency.

Lanark services have a turn-around time of 8 minutes, which often causes some delay as Lanark services run as ordinary passenger services and get delayed by late-running VTWC/XC at Motherwell and Uddingston and via Shotts services near Bellshill

 

[TEW]

Lanark services have a turn-around time of 8 minutes, which often causes some delay as Lanark services run as ordinary passenger services and get delayed by late-running VTWC/XC at Motherwell and Uddingston and via Shotts services near Bellshill

That's an example of where the timetable probably isn't resilient enough. 8 minute turnarounds at both ends for the whole of the day must make it difficult to recover from delays.
London Waterloo-Shepperton is similar, 5 minute turnaround at Shepperton and 8 at London Waterloo, and it's like that all day. Makes it difficult for them to recover delays.

 

[kylemore]

All I'm saying is that a bit of slack in the system is inherently good.

And remember when this slack is removed by TOCs they're not doing it to benefit the taxpayer or the government or the punters through lower fares or more frequent services,they're doing it to extract profit at the expense of all of the above!

 

[Deepgreen]

Two recent examples -

Travelling back from Birmingham to Dorking the other evening, I took XC to Reading then GWR to Dorking. The 1932 from Reading to Gatwick was delayed en route and a crowd gathered on the platform at Reading, including a large group of drinking lads. 'Noisy, but good-natured' would be a kind description of them. It was eventually decided to use the train already at the platform for the train and swap over with the incoming late arrival for the following stopping working.

When the driver turned up and opened the doors, all the drinkers piled into first class (it was 166205 as it happened, with the leather seating) as predicted, and I managed to get a seat there too. They remained noisy and foul-mouthed (but still good-natured) all the way to near Guildford when a woman stuck her head into the compartment and asked them to behave/be quieter. I'd been using my earphones to blot out their noise. As we stood at Guildford (about 20 late) I noticed the scrolling message had changed to next stop Redhill (i.e. omitting Dorking and Reigate). I scurried off and asked the guard (hidden at the back of the train as usual) if we would stop at Dorking and he said no as if it had been the plan all along!

If a woman passenger was able to ask the yobs to shut up, why couldn't the (burly) guard have deigned to emerge from his den, and enforce first class as well? I'm pretty sure there was no announcement as I could still hear the yobs over my music, and would have heard the p.a. too. Apart from the lack of notice, GWR are far too fond of missing out stops when behind time.

The other one was on a Thameslink working down from Blackfriars a couple of days ago, when we stood outside Redhill for ages (as usual) and then were told that we would omit the stop owing to a medical emergency meaning no platforms were available, although as we passed platform 1 (reversible) was empty! We were told to travel via Gatwick. Hourly connection to Betchworth missed yet gain!

 

[anme]

If a woman passenger was able to ask the yobs to shut up, why couldn't the (burly) guard have deigned to emerge from his den, and enforce first class as well?

To be honest leaving the "yobs" in first class seems like a sensible way to minimise the disruption to other passengers especially given that standard class was already busy. Sure, it's not good for any actual first class passengers, but there are many more standard class passengers so in terms of overall human happiness this was the right decision. And first class ticket holders are allowed to use standard class accommodation if they don't like the "yobs", but not vice versa.

 

[takno]

Two recent examples -
The other one was on a Thameslink working down from Blackfriars a couple of days ago, when we stood outside Redhill for ages (as usual) and then were told that we would omit the stop owing to a medical emergency meaning no platforms were available, although as we passed platform 1 (reversible) was empty! We were told to travel via Gatwick. Hourly connection to Betchworth missed yet gain!

If the emergency was on platform 2 they may not have wanted a trainful of people pulling up at the island while they were dealing with it. Or they may have wanted to use plat 1 exclusively for up trains since plat 2 was unavailable. In any case an additional two crossing moves to get to platform 1 and back for a down train would probably have delayed your train by at least 10 minutes, and quite possibly delayed at least another half dozen trains by a similar amount.