Is being a train driver all it's cracked up to be?

[Minilad]

Currently I earn double than the best paid train driver....and this is not a joke I am afraid...

You are Icemancreed and I claim my £5

Flying Qantas Whales out of Manchester no doubt

 

[AnonymousUser1]

An interesting read.. from an "outsider" in the real world.

I think some of you get carried away with the money train drivers earn, in reality it isn't big money I don't consider £45-£50k per year great money.

despite the fact it;s approaching twice the (median) average wage and 3 and a bit times the NMW

the Living wage foundation's figure for the lving wage is 8.45 / hour outside London which is about 16 and a half to 17 k for a normal full time working week assuming no shift premia ...

 

[MartinB1]

Agreed. Of course there are always going to be better jobs and downsides to the drivers job, but in general the job itself, the conditions and pay are outstanding compared to what most people can have.

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[AnonymousUser1]

Ah right I see, how often do drivers tend to sit spare ? Is this normally when a service has been cancelled ?

AIUI it;s to cover late minute absence / staff going off sick mid shift / staff who are removed from service for admin or personal reasons mid shift ...

 

[Minilad]

AIUI it;s to cover late minute absence / staff going off sick mid shift / staff who are removed from service for admin or personal reasons mid shift ...

Wait, Wut?

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Wait, Wut?

if you didn;t have spare staff i.e. working but not on a diagram what would happen when someoen calls in sick at the last minute ? or is taken ill mid shift ( or their mum / wife/ goldfish ) or if you have to remove someone from duty due to an operational incident ?

are passengers expected to just suck it up ? or do you get someone to take over the duty ?


in the ambulance service it;s called 'Relief' and they rarely get to 'sit' spare ... although where a crew is incomplete due to one person being off at short notice and no relief staff (of the correct grade) are availalbe they can end up sat on station if not qualified / authorised to lone respond / can;t be found another single to crew up with

 

[Minilad]

if you didn;t have spare staff i.e. working but not on a diagram what would happen when someoen calls in sick at the last minute ? or is taken ill mid shift ( or their mum / wife/ goldfish ) or if you have to remove someone from duty due to an operational incident ?

are passengers expected to just suck it up ? or do you get someone to take over the duty ?

What about all the other reasons to need a spare that don't involve those unreliable staff bunking off?
Or are you trying to be an expert again

 

[Kev.]

Are all drivers rostered in for spares each week?

 

[AnonymousUser1]

What about all the other reasons to need a spare that don't involve those unreliable staff bunking off?
Or are you trying to be an expert again

like what ?

staff being releived for 'operational reasons / operational incidents' covers much of that doesn't it...

the reality is that regardless of whatever political bull**** spin you are tryingto put on it there will be a small percentage of shifts left uncovered by last minute sickness / compassionate needs , plus there;s the issue of covering for sickness at a few percent of theoretical hours , as planned extractions ( leave, training, facility time etc ) should be worked into the staffing calculations and the overhead of hours worked vs hours 'paid' ...

but of course no-one outside the bubble has ever written and managed rotas because everyone not on the railway works 9-5 in offices don;t they ?

 

[MartinB1]

What about all the other reasons to need a spare that don't involve those unreliable staff bunking off?
Or are you trying to be an expert again

Some people on here have a strange attitude.


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[Minilad]

like what ?

staff being releived for 'operational reasons / operational incidents' covers much of that doesn't it...

the reality is that regardless of whatever political bull**** spin you are tryingto put on it there will be a small percentage of shifts left uncovered by last minute sickness / compassionate needs , plus there;s the issue of covering for sickness at a few percent of theoretical hours , as planned extractions ( leave, training, facility time etc ) should be worked into the staffing calculations and the overhead of hours worked vs hours 'paid' ...

but of course no-one outside the bubble has ever written and managed rotas because everyone not on the railway works 9-5 in offices don;t they ?

Sorry yes. Of course. I bow to your superior knowledge.
Excuse me while I go onto AmbulanceUK forum and tell them I know everything

 

[MartinB1]

Sorry yes. Of course. I bow to your superior knowledge.
Excuse me while I go onto AmbulanceUK forum and tell them I know everything

What is wrong with you?

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[Minilad]

What is wrong with you?

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Nothing. Why?

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Some people on here have a strange attitude.


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no they forget that management is management , risk assesment and hazard control are risk assessment and hazard control and that someone who has worked in governance and operational managmeent orles for the emergency services or NHS is perfectly capable of offering informed comment of 'safety critical' functions , which it seems arent; quite as critical as some people think due to the prevalence of DOO elsewhere in the UK both on national rail and on LU , and the 'heavier' metro / tram type operations

 

[Minilad]

no they forget that management is management , risk assesment and hazard control are risk assessment and hazard control and that someone who has worked in governance and operational managmeent orles for the emergency services or NHS is perfectly capable of offering informed comment of 'safety critical' functions , which it seems arent; quite as critical as some people think due to the prevalence of DOO elsewhere in the UK both on national rail and on LU , and the 'heavier' metro / tram type operations

This has absolutely nothing to do with any of that

 

[dk1]

I must admit that it was only after 14yrs & various jobs on the railway that I went for driving & then it was mainly because it was because I could earn more than practically any other railway career without even doing the amount of overtime I had before. Well that was the plan but you just get even more greedy & do as much overtime anyway for buckets more pay. The job has huge downsides with boredom, some long shifts/late running, unsocial hours & solitude, but then on the other hand I'm often home hours before I should thanks to cut-outs or disruption or just because the job is padded. We get to do much of our shopping in work hours & I personally get very little in the way of bother from my driver managers as don't give them reason too. Glad I made that move back in the late 90s.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

This has absolutely nothing to do with any of that

oh really ?

so other than covering short notice sickness / compassionate OR operational reasons why someone (else) may be removed from duty what is the purpose of having 'spare' staff availalbe on duty ?

as that's the reason every other setting in the known universe has 'spare' / 'float' / 'relief' shifts ...

 

[Minilad]

oh really ?

so other than covering short notice sickness / compassionate OR operational reasons why someone (else) may be removed from duty what is the purpose of having 'spare' staff availalbe on duty ?

as that's the reason every other setting in the known universe has 'spare' / 'float' / 'relief' shifts ...

There are many additional reasons a spare man night be used. On the odd occasion I sit spare I would imagine covering the types of thing you are suggesting would be a very very tiny percentage of my time.

 

[theironroad]

One bad beat and you can also leave with nothing.

Drivers CAN be spare on guaranteed rest days and earn a packet for doing nothing, not that it always happens.

Not with my toc, no guaranteed rest days for over ten years.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

There are many additional reasons a spare man night be used. On the odd occasion I sit spare I would imagine covering the types of thing you are suggesting would be a very very tiny percentage of my time.

in which case it sounds like the staffing model is wrong - as other stuff should be in the overhead barring true major incidents ... but of course no one else can possibly every work out a rota and staffign overhead

 

[bagazon]

You are Icemancreed and I claim my £5

Flying Qantas Whales out of Manchester no doubt

Nooo Darling...I am "Devil fish" and fly Qatar from Northolt....

Guys you so funny .....keep dreaming ..

 

[MartinB1]

There are many additional reasons a spare man night be used. On the odd occasion I sit spare I would imagine covering the types of thing you are suggesting would be a very very tiny percentage of my time.

Mph1977 is completely right. I'm a driver myself, and that is exactly what the spare turns are for! Usually I'm given a shift when spare, but personally prefer to be doing something anyway.

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[Minilad]

Mph1977 is completely right. I'm a driver myself, and that is exactly what the spare turns are for! Usually I'm given a shift when spare, but personally prefer to be doing something anyway.

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No he isn't. He is partly right. But nowhere near completely right.
But being a driver you should know that
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

in which case it sounds like the staffing model is wrong - as other stuff should be in the overhead barring true major incidents ... but of course no one else can possibly every work out a rota and staffign overhead

And of course no one else can possibly know more than you about railway staffing

 

[MartinB1]

Oh dear!

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[MichaelAMW]

No he isn't. He is partly right. But nowhere near completely right.
But being a driver you should know that
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


And of course no one else can possibly know more than you about railway staffing

Well, why not stop being a clever clogs and just say what *you* think spare shifts are all about?

 

[Minilad]

Oh dear!

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Care to elaborate?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well, why not stop being a clever clogs and just say what *you* think spare shifts are all about?

Nothing to do with being a "clever clogs"
I know why spare shifts are there. And I also know what happens when I am on a spare shift. As anyone who is train crew would know.
Unfortunately we have someone who isn't train crew and has a pretty big axe to grind with train crew given his posting history trying to tell me whats what and make himself out to be some sort of guru.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Well, why not stop being a clever clogs and just say what *you* think spare shifts are all about?

seems to be rather reluctant to answer that question ....

so far we have one person who states they are a driver who says that the spare shifts are there to cover unplanned / short notice staff shortages even if the staff are pinched for other things and minilad claiming that both that person and myself are wrong ...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Care to elaborate?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Nothing to do with being a "clever clogs"
I know why spare shifts are there. And I also know what happens when I am on a spare shift. As anyone who is train crew would know.
Unfortunately we have someone who isn't train crew and has a pretty big axe to grind with train crew given his posting history trying to tell me whats what and make himself out to be some sort of guru.

The amount of projection and thought projection / injection / extrapolation here is remarkable ...

and still no evidence to support your assertion ...

 

[Tomnick]

Certainly at our place, "spare" turns are used to cover longer-term things such as annual leave, safety briefs, vacant lines, longer term sickness and, staff released for other things. They won't pay overtime to cover a spare turn - if something needs covering, they'll use overtime or whatever to cover that directly.

"Service recovery" turns are used to cover stuff that goes wrong on the day - short notice sickness, traincrew displaced by disruption etc.. Subtly different.

I'm still not sure why it's such an important issue in this discussion though?

 

[fowler9]

I think that if companies intend to provide a service they have advertised they should have enough spare to provide the service in event of a problem. Where I work we get people calling up the late shift such as I am on this week asking why no one has turned up to get their heating working again. I have to tell them that the person on call has called in sick, they want to know if there is anyone else I can get and I have to say no. It does my head in that everyone wants a perfect service for everything but no one wants to work for it or pay for it.

 

[dk1]

We can come in FDW to cover an 'as ordered' turn & do nothing (unless things go wrong) but that's a whole different thing to coming in 'spare'. Wouldn't be brought in FDW for that.

I've found the establishment at my depot never has really been enough to cover on a daily basis with very few if any spare drivers & usually around 7 per day working their Free Days.